Win Prizes Ask an Atheist - Shoe's on the other foot now!

[Gethelred]

Alright, we're going to have a change of tack.

As I'm sure you can see, the thread title has been changed to Ask an Atheist. People who have a question to ask of the atheists who populate this thread - more than the christians do - should feel free to ask questions of them.

If you've still got a live question posted to a christian, feel free to continue conversing for the time being.

Standard board rules apply.

 

[Total Power]

BUT... WHAT IF...
.... have you ever pondered the possibility that it is true, that Jesus was the messiah prophesied in Isaiah?
And what if it is?
Again, there is nothing lost for believers, is there?
Can you imagine life without this beautiful piece of music?



Interesting read about Handel's Messiah

Messiah (Handel) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

what if, just WHAT IF my aunty had balls?


Your music example is as desperate as it gets.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Again, there is nothing lost for believers, is there?

No, just their entire life.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

The idea is that statistically it should be near impossible for the prophecies to be fulfilled by chance, so there's indisputable evidence Christianity is real. That's certainly the way fundamentalist apologists look at it.

This is the bit that I'm wanting to interrogate.

When did we decide that a (highly dubious) knack with forecasting was some sort of criterion for evaluating a religion's claims?

I can't see any automatic link whatsoever between the two.

But it seems the world is full of people who go "Look. What he/she said was going to happen, did happen! Their religion must be a real one!"

 

[Vdubs]

what if, just WHAT IF my aunty had balls?


Your music example is as desperate as it gets.

Desperate?
You are way too serious.
There was a well known horse with a name that would suit you.
Better Loosen Up.
But importantly, I had faith well before the prophesies were brought up in my experience as a devourer of God's word and messages from the pulpit.

 

[Total Power]

Desperate?
You are way too serious.
There was a well known horse with a name that would suit you.
Better Loosen Up.
But importantly, I had faith well before the prophesies were brought up in my experience as a devourer of God's word and messages from the pulpit.

Well if he cn't tell us when he is returning, suggesting a generation is several thousands years, then what is he actually telling? Lies? you can have all the faith you to, what you believe is your business, i am just pointing out that NT writers and authors believed the world is coming to an end shortly and every should embrace Jesus if they want to be saved. Do you think C.S Lewis was stupid? even for a Christian like him he called it the dumbest thing ever! but you have just googled an apologist page which agrees with you, sums your belief up. As i said what you believe is your business, what Muslims believes is their business, i am here to have a discussion on the obvious failings from a supposed God.

But don't worry, you will die, i will die and we will be gone, forever and still there will be no Zombie coming our way. Don't worry about some fictional man coming back because a book written by goat herders told you so and enjoy your life, without mental slavery. One life only and you spent all of it being a slave. Well cool!

 

[Evolved1]

This is the bit that I'm wanting to interrogate.

When did we decide that a (highly dubious) knack with forecasting was some sort of criterion for evaluating a religion's claims?

I can't see any automatic link whatsoever between the two.

But it seems the world is full of people who go "Look. What he/she said was going to happen, did happen! Their religion must be a real one!"

All different branches of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam do it. They all claim to have indisputable proof too.

You would think the one true god would have more robust methodology to distinguish itself from the fakes.

None of these religions have anything more going for them than the vibe, which is extraordinary when our eternal destiny is supposedly on the line.

You wouldn't take medication that hadn't been through heavy scientific scruity, yet you're supposed to bank your entire life on the ramblings of ancient men and vague prophecies as interpreted by the church. It's craziness.

One of the prophecies Jesus allegedly fulfilled was him riding on a donkey. They may as well have prophesied that he would drink water one day, then proclaim the fulfillment as proof he was god.

Unless you're looking for something to believe, the prophecies aren't convincing. People of faith seem more interested in confirmation bias than truth.

If it keeps them happy, I don't really have a problem with it if they don't attempt to enforce their faith on non believers through politics and laws.

 

[owen87]

You wouldn't take medication that hadn't been through heavy scientific scruity, yet you're supposed to bank your entire life on the ramblings of ancient men and vague prophecies as interpreted by the church. It's craziness.

There is a certain irony in highly religious people being some of the most skeptical about covid vaccines yet not having an ounce of doubt about their God.

 

[raskolnikov]

 

[ElectricG]

View attachment 1437038

I’m an atheist now

 

[raskolnikov]

I’m an atheist now

Awesome. Glad you've come to your senses!

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Christians.

If your god endorses abortion, as per your holy book, then why do you all religiously oppose it?

 

[Total Power]

View attachment 1438568

Narcissism at it's very worst. If he wanted to prove his existence there's a better way than telling people you are a sinner and either you accept me or be judged horribly.

 

[Rosscoe]

 

[Saint]

A genuine question for the religious. Do you worry that clearly the trend is that soon Christians will be heavily out-numbered by the non-religious and the privilege the religious have held will continue to erode?

In 10 years' time, on current trends, non-religious will exceed 50% of the population and Christians will be down somewhere around the 30% mark?

I think it's reason to celebrate for the non-religious, but is it cause for concern for the religious and Christians in particular? Perhaps internally the churches might have to front up to a bleaker future, or perhaps they have enough money/assets in the bank that they'll just continue as a very closed shop?



The 2021 Census has revealed increasing diversity in the religions Australians identified, reflecting continuing changes in our social attitudes and belief systems.

Christianity is the most common religion in Australia, with over 40 per cent (43.9 per cent) identifying as Christian. This has reduced from over 50 per cent (52.1 per cent) in 2016 and from over 60 per cent (61.1 per cent) in 2011. As in earlier Censuses, the largest Christian denominations are Catholic (20.0 per cent of the population) and Anglican (9.8 per cent).

While fewer people are reporting their religion as Christian, more are reporting ‘no religion’. Almost 40 per cent (38.9 per cent) of Australia’s population reported having no religion in the 2021 Census, an increase from 30 per cent (30.1 per cent) in 2016 and 22 per cent (22.3 per cent) in 2011.

Other religions are growing but continue to make up a small proportion of the population. Hinduism has grown by 55.3 per cent to 684,002 people, or 2.7 per cent of the population. Islam has grown to 813,392 people, which is 3.2 per cent of the Australian population.

2021 Census shows changes in Australia’s religious diversity

www.abs.gov.au

 

[Total Power]

Anyone likes Jannik Sinner? His family name has just won me over. Long live Sinners.

 

[Vdubs]

Narcissism at it's very worst. If he wanted to prove his existence there's a better way than telling people you are a sinner and either you accept me or be judged horribly.

Comments like that are frankly puerile.
IF you believe in God, no way can anyone justify labelling him narcissistic. The Creator of all things is way beyond narcissism. Narcissism is a human construct, exactly what some say God is.
If you don't believe in God, then no need for all the angst.
Some of us believe that even though it is so easy to enjoy sin, the end result is death, spiritual death, separation from God.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Comments like that are frankly puerile.
IF you believe in God, no way can anyone justify labelling him narcissistic. The Creator of all things is way beyond narcissism. Narcissism is a human construct, exactly what some say God is.
If you don't believe in God, then no need for all the angst.
Some of us believe that even though it is so easy to enjoy sin, the end result is death, spiritual death, separation from God.

Something so awesomely powerful that it can create the entire universe, but is still so insecure that it requires insignificant humans on one planet out of billions to constantly send flattering telepathic messages, isn’t narcissist?

 

[Vdubs]

A genuine question for the religious. Do you worry that clearly the trend is that soon Christians will be heavily out-numbered by the non-religious and the privilege the religious have held will continue to erode?

In 10 years' time, on current trends, non-religious will exceed 50% of the population and Christians will be down somewhere around the 30% mark?

I think it's reason to celebrate for the non-religious, but is it cause for concern for the religious and Christians in particular? Perhaps internally the churches might have to front up to a bleaker future, or perhaps they have enough money/assets in the bank that they'll just continue as a very closed shop?



The 2021 Census has revealed increasing diversity in the religions Australians identified, reflecting continuing changes in our social attitudes and belief systems.

Christianity is the most common religion in Australia, with over 40 per cent (43.9 per cent) identifying as Christian. This has reduced from over 50 per cent (52.1 per cent) in 2016 and from over 60 per cent (61.1 per cent) in 2011. As in earlier Censuses, the largest Christian denominations are Catholic (20.0 per cent of the population) and Anglican (9.8 per cent).

While fewer people are reporting their religion as Christian, more are reporting ‘no religion’. Almost 40 per cent (38.9 per cent) of Australia’s population reported having no religion in the 2021 Census, an increase from 30 per cent (30.1 per cent) in 2016 and 22 per cent (22.3 per cent) in 2011.

Other religions are growing but continue to make up a small proportion of the population. Hinduism has grown by 55.3 per cent to 684,002 people, or 2.7 per cent of the population. Islam has grown to 813,392 people, which is 3.2 per cent of the Australian population.

2021 Census shows changes in Australia’s religious diversity

www.abs.gov.au

Or it could herald the beginning of the foretold return of Jesus. One of the signs.....

 

[Vdubs]

Something so awesomely powerful that it can create the entire universe, but is still so insecure that it requires insignificant humans on one planet out of billions to constantly send flattering telepathic messages, isn’t narcissist?

Your human description of God. It lacks respect for the OMNI everything that is God but includes your own opinion.

 

[Total Power]

Comments like that are frankly puerile.
IF you believe in God, no way can anyone justify labelling him narcissistic. The Creator of all things is way beyond narcissism. Narcissism is a human construct, exactly what some say God is.
If you don't believe in God, then no need for all the angst.
Some of us believe that even though it is so easy to enjoy sin, the end result is death, spiritual death, separation from God.

I think i can make it simplier for your version of Christian god, so that you understand this better.

As a parent, is there ANYTHING your child could do to lead you to torture them forever in the basement? (The piunishment for sinning and not accepting Jesus or accepting other(false) deities is clearly stated in the Bible, do you want me to spill it out to you again?)

If the answer is no than you are a better parent than God.

Would you worship someone who tortured his children in a basement cause the curse was given by the father remember and we sin cause of the curse, the only way out is to praise the father...orelse....

Such a god shouldnt/wouldn't exist and doesn't exist, fortunately for all of us.

 

[Total Power]

Comments like that are frankly puerile.
IF you believe in God, no way can anyone justify labelling him narcissistic. The Creator of all things is way beyond narcissism. Narcissism is a human construct, exactly what some say God is.
If you don't believe in God, then no need for all the angst.
Some of us believe that even though it is so easy to enjoy sin, the end result is death, spiritual death, separation from God.

I missed out on a few other:
Narcissist, emotionally-unintelligent, insecure, childish, petty, cruel, carries grudges...

The god of the bible (i.e. Jewish god/or the father or the version of God as described by Paul) would not get any job with responsibility in the human world. So no, not in any way worthy of worship given there is so little to admire.


Prove me wrong. We have had this discussion before and you ran away while calling me names.

 

[Vdubs]

I think i can make it simplier for your version of Christian god, so that you understand this better.

As a parent, is there ANYTHING your child could do to lead you to torture them forever in the basement? (The piunishment for sinning and not accepting Jesus or accepting other(false) deities is clearly stated in the Bible, do you want me to spill it out to you again?)

If the answer is no than you are a better parent than God.

Would you worship someone who tortured his children in a basement cause the curse was given by the father remember and we sin cause of the curse, the only way out is to praise the father...orelse....

Such a god shouldnt/wouldn't exist and doesn't exist, fortunately for all of us.

You continually purport to be above God, superior to what He has designed. It would be worthwhile respecting that even though you are ambivalent in your acceptance of God as we believers perceive Him, you are none the wiser, and the way you "ask" questions of us will not lead you to what you are after, whatever that is.

 

[Total Power]

You continually purport to be above God, superior to what He has designed. It would be worthwhile respecting that even though you are ambivalent in your acceptance of God as we believers perceive Him, you are none the wiser, and the way you "ask" questions of us will not lead you to what you are after, whatever that is.

I am just going by what your holy book tells us. If you don't know God, just admit it, why pretend? The god of the bible is absolutely deplorable *****

Lets then admit Bible is pretty much irrelevant and we can get on with our lives.

 

[Vdubs]

I missed out on a few other:
Narcissist, emotionally-unintelligent, insecure, childish, petty, cruel, carries grudges...

The god of the bible (i.e. Jewish god/or the father or the version of God as described by Paul) would not get any job with responsibility in the human world. So no, not in any way worthy of worship given there is so little to admire.


Prove me wrong. We have had this discussion before and you ran away while calling me names.

Me calling you names?
Bizarre.
All you are doing is forming your biased conclusions about God, running with them, and acting as if they are accurate.
And then slandering God as if He dares to have done what you have criticised Him for doing.