Religion Ask a Christian - Continued in Part 2

[Chief]

Continued in Part Two:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ask-a-christian-part-2.1295001/unread

 

[ferball]

Splitting hairs really endears you to everyone here. Keep up the great work champ

If I can't make a stupid, smart arse comment in a thread about religion then things have become pretty grim.

 

[ferball]

Lovely stone you’re appealing to there, maybe throw it in a pond for affect.

Well it doesn't happen in Christianity but Hinduism has at least one school of materialism that, although it accepts reincarnation, doesn't accept the existence of any gods.

Buddhism is essentially a "god free" religion too if you look at it properly.

 

[Total Power]

Well it doesn't happen in Christianity but Hinduism has at least one school of materialism that, although it accepts reincarnation, doesn't accept the existence of any gods.

Buddhism is essentially a "god free" religion too if you look at it properly.

True that. Actual hindu scriptures in Vedas doesn't talk about any god, it's been bastardised over the years thanks to the Abrahamic religions.

Who really knows? Who will here proclaim it?
Whence was it produced? Whence is this creation?
The gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe.
Who then knows whence it has arisen?
RV 10.129.6


In other words it's unknowable.

 

[Boston tiger]

I think if the world's governments grew a pair and researched in-depth the intelligence quotient of all of our religiously inclined, the results would probably point to believers being our dumbest humans

and research the correlation between the autism spectrum and atheism while they are at it.

 

[Boston tiger]

You haven't presented any compelling evidence (or any evidence at all tbh) of why anyone should take your silly rants seriously. Please provide some facts for your claims.

It’s history numbnuts. It was what was being taught... doesn’t have to be correct. It happened. It’s Christian doctrine. God made man in Gods image etc etc.. The Church ruled etc etc. The Vatican observatory is one of the oldest astronomical institutes .

 

[Boston tiger]

What proof do you have they existed?

Because someone said they did .

 

[Pessimistic]

Did you know there are atheist schools in some religions?

(As in schools of thought, not physical buildings or whatever.)

Probably training in the ridiculous lines of argument evangelists use. Rdiculous but remarkably effective on the drones.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

So Psalm 82:1 says: "God has taken his place in the divine assembly, he judges among the Gods"

Hmm....so who are the other Gods?

 

[Pessimistic]

It’s history numbnuts. It was what was being taught... doesn’t have to be correct. It happened. It’s Christian doctrine. God made man in Gods image etc etc.. The Church ruled etc etc. The Vatican observatory is one of the oldest astronomical institutes .

The churchs love hate relationship with actual science (over a long period) is very interesting

 

[M Malice]

Grow feathers, learn to sing and then fly?

Or were you talking about a specific dinosaur?

I'll hazard a guess and surmise that you knew what I was talking about..... and yes I do believe evolution has been scientifically proven beyond doubt.

 

[M Malice]

Humans see God because of our intelligence. You are getting intelligence and education mixed up.

My limited intelligence is struggling to make sense of this Bt, if by god you mean the Abrahamic version I would substitute gullibility/indoctrination for intelligence.

 

[chelseacarlton]

I think if the world's governments grew a pair and researched in-depth the intelligence quotient of all of our religiously inclined, the results would probably point to believers being our dumbest humans

There are several studies on that very topic.
The most humorous is the American one, the states that rate the lowest in intelligence are the most religious red states, also the highest per capita in unwanted and aborted teen pregnancies and the highest rates of gay pr0n users.

 

[Boston tiger]

The churchs love hate relationship with actual science (over a long period) is very interesting

Just beware of who writes history. The church copped it in the neck from the powerful Protestant churches/ countries there for a fair awhile. The misconceptions of the Galileo case for one. But definitely panic stations and a backlash against science when the Protestant revolution was in full swing .

 

[Boston tiger]

My limited intelligence is struggling to make sense of this Bt, if by god you mean the Abrahamic version I would substitute gullibility/indoctrination for intelligence.

I’m heading back to the God concept requires a higher plane of thought. Eg ..all sea monkeys are atheists. I blame evolution. As the Simpsons say “ only humans and monkeys that know sign language get to go to heaven “

 

[Seeds]

WRONG, only the person making the claim is required to justify or demonstrate that claim.
Why the fu** do I need to justify that I haven’t been shown evidence for the non existence of anything?
FFS

Im making the claim there are no gods of any shape of form. As i am making the claim i should justify it shouldnt I? Otherwise i can only conclude that i dont think there are any gods but i have no justification for that assertion?

Note. Not being able to justify there is no gods does not provide justification that there are gods. It simply means we can not make any claim.

 

[Furn2]

Are you calling the apostles liars? What proof do you have that they were lying ?

Mark tells the tale about Jesus crossing over the Sea of Galilee and casting demons out of a man who ran violently down a steep place into the sea… and they were choked in the sea. The oldest Greek manuscripts say this happened in the land of the Gerasenes.

Gerasa is 31 miles from the sea.

Mark also says that Jesus traveling from Tyre on the Mediterranean to the Sea of Galilee, 30 miles inland. According to Mark 7:31, Jesus and the boys went by way of Sidon, 20 miles north of Tyre on the Mediterranean coast! Since to Sidon and back would be 40 miles, this means that the wisest of all men walked 70 miles when he could have walked only 30.

Whoever wrote Mark had no knowledge of even basic Palestinian geography.

That alone is enough to write the whole thing off as made up BS.

But there’s enough of these inconsistencies to write many books about and people have.

Start with this 3 book series.

https://www.amazon.com.au/Jesus-Mything-Action-David-Fitzgerald/dp/1542858887

 

[chelseacarlton]

Im making the claim there are no gods of any shape of form. As i am making the claim i should justify it shouldnt I? Otherwise i can only conclude that i dont think there are any gods but i have no justification for that assertion?

Note. Not being able to justify there is no gods does not provide justification that there are gods. It simply means we can not make any claim.

Then your position is not atheism, it is agnostic atheism.
Of course if you are making the claim then you need to demonstrate either empirically or philosophically how you came to that conclusion.
It’s not a subtle difference here.
Your position posits belief, atheism posits non belief.
The claimant must always justify and evidence the claim, just as in a Court of Law.
If this wasn’t the case, we'd still believe the earth was the centre of the universe and that humanity was the highest form and ultimate goal of creation, quite clearly, both of these positions have been demonstrably proven to be false.
Do we agree?

 

[chelseacarlton]

Because someone said they did .

Well then, Muhammad was the last prophet and flew to heaven on a Buraq and you’ve made allah very angry.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Well it doesn't happen in Christianity but Hinduism has at least one school of materialism that, although it accepts reincarnation, doesn't accept the existence of any gods.

Buddhism is essentially a "god free" religion too if you look at it properly.

No disagreement there.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Are you calling the apostles liars? What proof do you have that they were lying ?

I am

 

[ferball]

I'll hazard a guess and surmise that you knew what I was talking about..... and yes I do believe evolution has been scientifically proven beyond doubt.

No it hasn't.

It should always be doubted, and as result tested. So far parts of it have stood up to every test and therefore it is still a valid theory. But it could still be proven wrong. (Theoretically, don't ask me how.).

Also, and more importantly:

The "theory of evolution" has changed and adapted to new findings and new information, it isn't set in stone. These days we recognise epigenetics as a thing. Once upon a time it was unheard or dismissed as too close to Lamark.

It may seem pedantic but imo this is the main difference between science and religion.

There is always room for doubt in science, imo (and that even extends to the existence of gods and goddesses and whatever else, again imo.)

All science can do is make testable statements about measure able things.

If you can't measure it you can't test it.

Look how hard it is to measure the Higgs Boson.

Godel was all over this last century.

That's my main point. Don't be dogmatic about science. It isn't a religion.

 

[M Malice]

No it hasn't.

It should always be doubted, and as result tested. So far parts of it have stood up to every test and therefore it is still a valid theory. But it could still be proven wrong. (Theoretically, don't ask me how.).

Also, and more importantly:

The "theory of evolution" has changed and adapted to new findings and new information, it isn't set in stone. These days we recognise epigenetics as a thing. Once upon a time it was unheard or dismissed as too close to Lamark.

It may seem pedantic but imo this is the main difference between science and religion.

There is always room for doubt in science, imo (and that even extends to the existence of gods and goddesses and whatever else, again imo.)

All science can do is make testable statements about measure able things.

If you can't measure it you can't test it.

Look how hard it is to measure the Higgs Boson.

Godel was all over this last century.

That's my main point. Don't be dogmatic about science. It isn't a religion.

I agree with all that, perhaps I should have posted beyond "reasonable" doubt.

 

[ferball]

But also Jason mp ... The dinosaurs, or their descendants evolved as circumstances changed and were able to exploit ecological niches to maintain their existence.

Religion will do this as well. It won't become "extinct". That's just an illusion caused by perspective.

 

[ferball]

I agree with all that, perhaps I should have posted beyond "reasonable" doubt.

Maybe that's a great way to frame it in future.

It's a big problem when arguing with dogmatic religious people, (or dogmatic materialists for that matter.) - Them not allowing for reasonable doubt.

 

[Seeds]

Then your position is not atheism, it is agnostic atheism.
Of course if you are making the claim then you need to demonstrate either empirically or philosophically how you came to that conclusion.
It’s not a subtle difference here.
Your position posits belief, atheism posits non belief.
The claimant must always justify and evidence the claim, just as in a Court of Law.
If this wasn’t the case, we'd still believe the earth was the centre of the universe and that humanity was the highest form and ultimate goal of creation, quite clearly, both of these positions have been demonstrably proven to be false.
Do we agree?

You have lost me. Maybe because you are using a different definition of belief.

Im only agnostic athiest in regards to black holes and whatever came before the big bang. On earth it is provable as anything is provable (With exception of mathematical statements) that gods do not exist.