Religion Ask a Christian - Continued in Part 2

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Evolved1

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Surface thought is the term used by neuroscientists. It’s what atheists and other intelligent mammals such as dolphins and dogs use there for want of a better term .. their brain power. Interesting stuff
Even dolphins aren't dumb enough to think goddidit is an answer.

Theism is a vestigial form of thinking that the better part of humanity have moved away from. Come join those of us who prefer rational thought...using your brain will hurt at first, but you'll get used to it with time.
 

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Even dolphins aren't dumb enough to think goddidit is an answer.

Theism is a vestigial form of thinking that the better part of humanity have moved away from. Come join those of us who prefer rational thought...using your brain will hurt at first, but you'll get used to it with time.

Forms and schedules ..no thank you

The science is ..Dolphins and atheists are incapable of understanding the God concept. Visual understanding begats surface thought.
 

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The whole thing was a legal trick. Sacrificing yourself to yourself so that you could save humanity from eternal damnation and judgement, as decided by yourself as a the sole judge.

How did a god of infinite wisdom and perfect knowledge ever get himself into such a legal position where atonement for sin required the sacrifice of blood? Who made up that rule and how did god get fooled into accepting it?

What Christians call forgiveness is actually based upon the principle of atonement or retribution, which is the opposite of forgiveness. Why couldn't god just have forgiven sins without going through this complicated legalistic process?

How’s your concept of God going there for you Admiral?
 

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How’s your concept of God going there for you Admiral?

At the moment I don't have one. I was raised in an evangelical household and church scene. This is one of the questions I never found an answer to - to whom was Jesus sacrificed? I have given up on the whole atonement for sin by sacrifice concept, it doesn't make sense to me. I have learned since then that Christianity is a contrived amalgamation of several different religions probably during the second and third centuries CE. Also a significant chunk of the New Testament was written around this time (probably by the early Church fathers themselves) and falsely attributed to authors long since dead.

I don't know if there is a true God and a true religion out there, but if there is I dismiss Christianity as a contender for that title. It is a false religion.
 

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At the moment I don't have one. I was raised in an evangelical household and church scene. This is one of the questions I never found an answer to - to whom was Jesus sacrificed? I have given up on the whole atonement for sin by sacrifice concept, it doesn't make sense to me. I have learned since then that Christianity is a contrived amalgamation of several different religions probably during the second and third centuries CE. Also a significant chunk of the New Testament was written around this time (probably by the early Church fathers themselves) and falsely attributed to authors long since dead.

I don't know if there is a true God and a true religion out there, but if there is I dismiss Christianity as a contender for that title. It is a false religion.

From your previous post it sounds like you are going down to the track of all good atheists and looking for a God with the same wisdom as you but with super powers. Infinite wisdom is infinite wisdom I’d be working on that concept before anything.

Jesus dying on the cross? Once again as you said infinite wisdom. On a practical side how did that beautiful visual end up working for humanity? God loves us.. no more sacrificing ..clean slate ... now get on the with job. Even if we put God on the same wisdom as us we have to give that a tick.

As for when and how the church began.. just have a real fair dinkum look at Church history.

What year in history would you put the first followers of Jesus?
 
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From your previous post it sounds like you are going down to the track of all good atheists and looking for a God with the same wisdom as you but with super powers. Infinite wisdom is infinite wisdom I’d be working on that concept before anything.
How does this not become an infinite loop or avoid circular logic?
Jesus dying on the cross? Once again as you said infinite wisdom. On a practical side how did that beautiful visual end up working for humanity? God loves us.. no more sacrificing ..clean slate ... now get on the with job. Even if we put God on the same wisdom as us we have to give that a tick.
How is Jesus dying on the cross anything more than an act of celestial masturbation, if he's sacrificing himself to himself?
As for when and how the church began.. just have a real fair dinkum look at Church history.

What year in history would you put the first followers of Jesus?
Did Jesus exist?
 

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From your previous post it sounds like you are going down to the track of all good atheists and looking for a God with the same wisdom as you but with super powers. Infinite wisdom is infinite wisdom I’d be working on that concept before anything.

Jesus dying on the cross? Once again as you said infinite wisdom. On a practical side how did that beautiful visual end up working for humanity? God loves us.. no more sacrificing ..clean slate ... now get on the with job. Even if we put God on the same wisdom as us we have to give that a tick.

As for when and how the church began.. just have a real fair dinkum look at Church history.

What year in history would you put the first followers of Jesus?

It should not be too much to ask for a theology to make logical sense. Invoking faith to cover the logical gaps in the sequence doesn't cut it for me. Belittling human reason as being unworthy of understanding the wisdom of the divine is just a cop-out. I don't buy it.

To answer your last question first, somewhere in between the first centuary BCE and the second century CE. Just that the early worshipers had a form of Christ who was celestial, not earthly. The flesh and blood Jesus on earth is a later evolution of ideas. The original idea was just a mystery religion for Hellenised Jews.

The religion of the old testament god from Abraham onwards was not an afterlife religion. It was all about punishment and reward for sin in the earthly life. If you sinned, god would punish you, if the whole nation sinned god would punish the nation. The religion followed an annual cycle of cleansing and atonement through sacrifice so that the crops wouldn't fail and "natural" disasters wouldn't happen. The purpose of sacrifice was nothing to do with salvation of the soul in the afterlife. That whole afterlife idea is a borrowed foreign concept.

By the end of the second century CE these two different religions were crudely riveted together. The whole story of Jesus being born of a virgin in a real human body and then being crucified and his human body rising from the dead, plus the whole story this death being the equivalent of a sacrifice - is just a huge segway from one form of religion to the next.
 
Believers will make up more stories to make it all fit as they have for nearly couple of thousand of years .

One of the most laughable is how they try and bridge the 65 million year gap between dinosaurs and humans. Oh yes god created them during those 6 days, the bible mentions beasts. Some (many) small dinosaurs were in Noah’s boat ...not sure if there were two for each of the 700 species identified ...maybe they had their own section.
 

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It should not be too much to ask for a theology to make logical sense. Invoking faith to cover the logical gaps in the sequence doesn't cut it for me. Belittling human reason as being unworthy of understanding the wisdom of the divine is just a cop-out. I don't buy it.

To answer your last question first, somewhere in between the first centuary BCE and the second century CE. Just that the early worshipers had a form of Christ who was celestial, not earthly. The flesh and blood Jesus on earth is a later evolution of ideas. The original idea was just a mystery religion for Hellenised Jews.

The religion of the old testament god from Abraham onwards was not an afterlife religion. It was all about punishment and reward for sin in the earthly life. If you sinned, god would punish you, if the whole nation sinned god would punish the nation. The religion followed an annual cycle of cleansing and atonement through sacrifice so that the crops wouldn't fail and "natural" disasters wouldn't happen. The purpose of sacrifice was nothing to do with salvation of the soul in the afterlife. That whole afterlife idea is a borrowed foreign concept.

By the end of the second century CE these two different religions were crudely riveted together. The whole story of Jesus being born of a virgin in a real human body and then being crucified and his human body rising from the dead, plus the whole story this death being the equivalent of a sacrifice - is just a huge segway from one form of religion to the next.

Good luck with all that
 
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Why since the advent of cameras, video recordings etc have "miracles" ceased?

Don't see much walking on water, rising from the dead, parting of seas or talking burning bushes in the age when everyone has a recording device in their pocket:think:.

Yep. With increasingly good technology and knowledge, as well as a wider prevalence of science in the modern world, supposed miracles are becoming easier to debunk, that is, discovering their naturalistic cause.

If the naturalistic explanation is more outlandish, more implausible and more unlikely than the miracle itself, perhaps a supernatural explanation is the right one.

There are plenty of better natrualistic explanatipns for the "Resurrection" for example. .
 

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At the moment I don't have one. I was raised in an evangelical household and church scene. This is one of the questions I never found an answer to - to whom was Jesus sacrificed? I have given up on the whole atonement for sin by sacrifice concept, it doesn't make sense to me. I have learned since then that Christianity is a contrived amalgamation of several different religions probably during the second and third centuries CE. Also a significant chunk of the New Testament was written around this time (probably by the early Church fathers themselves) and falsely attributed to authors long since dead.

I don't know if there is a true God and a true religion out there, but if there is I dismiss Christianity as a contender for that title. It is a false religion.
I read the whole bible from front to back when I was around the age of eight.. or a couple more.. ripping book by the way.... however, I don't know
it lead me anywhere to the promise land.. I just like reading big books... lots and lots of pages of interesting stuff about the Middle East people..

just occurred to me.. Carry on.. ;)
 

Evolved1

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what's wrong with slavery now?

:huh:
Nothing is wrong with slavery if we take our morals from the absolute truth of god as written out clearly in perfect English within the KJV bible.

If slavery is wrong, Jesus would have told us so.
Since god never changes, his morality never changes.
Slavery wasn't wrong in the time of Jesus, so it isn't wrong in 2020.
If we want to be more godly, we should reinstate slavery.
 

Evolved1

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Why since the advent of cameras, video recordings etc have "miracles" ceased?

Don't see much walking on water, rising from the dead, parting of seas or talking burning bushes in the age when everyone has a recording device in their pocket:think:.
Walking on water is easy.

 
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Nothing is wrong with slavery if we take our morals from the absolute truth of god as written out clearly in perfect English within the KJV bible.

If slavery is wrong, Jesus would have told us so.
Since god never changes, his morality never changes.
Slavery wasn't wrong in the time of Jesus, so it isn't wrong in 2020.
If we want to be more godly, we should reinstate slavery.
That's something I don't understand from a christian perspective, so if any are still in here feel free to answer this for me.

If God never changes his mind, why then does Jesus not completely agree with the god of the Old Testament?
 
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