Religion Ask a Christian - Continued in Part 2

Status
Not open for further replies.
May 1, 2016
28,403
55,364
AFL Club
Carlton
The Bible says nothing about not following it word for word literally (in fact, it is not possible or relevant today in many areas)- just your concrete mindset.
You're quite conveniently forgetting the posts I've put to you in the last two pages, which speak of obedience to the commandments of god. The problem here is not my reading of the text, but yours.

Mine is not an argument, just fact.
No, it isn't. It's opinion, concerning interpretation.
I am a Christian, not because I was born into a Catholic family, but because later on in my life I sought out Jesus and made a personal commitment. I am proudly born again. This is what Christianity is about, and then trying to live in Australia in 2020 in the most Christ-like way possible. That necessitates Bible study, fellowship, acknowledging sin, repenting and having as much prayerful communication with Jesus as possible.
You are christian through circumstance, that circumstance being the place of your birth. Were you born elsewhere, you would not be christian.

You are also not a real christian, by reason of the fact that you do not follow the bible literally.
The highlighted point you made- is that serious? The epitome of Nonsense .
It is only through your refusal to consider what I'm saying that you can remain unaware of the inconsistency here. You are content with your status quo, and in order to maintain it you have done the intellectual version of shoving your fingers in your ears and singing, "I'm not listening!"

What this demonstrates is that the community - the church - is as important to your faith as the faith itself, which it to your credit. You could not be without association with others for your faith, they're necessary to it. But it weds you to the inconsistencies communal faith possesses; you are connected to the simplest of your group, and to being able to argue it only in a way they'd understand.

You exempt yourself from aspects of the Bible's message, because it would be incompatible with the life you live. This lies in direct contradiction to the bible passages provided to you in this thread. It is not for me to resolve this for you; only you can find a satisfactory answer here. But simply not thinking about it does not mean said inconsistency goes away; it simply means you do not and have not addressed it.
 

Leeda

Talents B Sharp
Suspended
Sep 26, 2012
9,443
1,622
AFL Club
Hawthorn
the bible is all art and interpretation and perception...

we don't have to believe nor throw the said book out the window when it doesn't serve our purpose...

what we do need to do is to take the notion that there is a diversity of personality and let everyone take steps to get things right..

reading a bible is not a bad thing, it is not something that we can't adapt to today and nor is it something that corrupts...
we are all smarter than that..

people are presenting themselves as smarter than that.. it is the right thing to do to question everything..
 

Evolved1

Cancelled
10k Posts
Jun 14, 2013
13,076
15,680
AFL Club
Essendon
I don't regard anyone who attends Hillsong as genuine Christians. It's a money making enterprise led by a dodgy leader who, as I understand it, has no recognised theological qualifications. And genuine believers aren't supposed to be dissemblers, divisive, betrayers who display little practical interest in the poor and less fortunate.

As for Pence. This covers it.
The only qualification I use to gauge if someones faith is genuine is whether they actually believe in the religion and deity, and I have no reason to think that Brian Houston and Pence don't have genuine faith. Mike Pence's beliefs seem to be typical stock standard fundamentalist Christianity.

If you associate the label 'Christian' with positive connotations, I can see why you'd come to that conclusion. The bible gives mixed moral messages and the theological interpretations are vast, which is why I don't define Christians purely by their actions or beliefs.

Trump is different in that he seems to be an atheist masquerading as a Christian in order to gain votes. I am of the opinion that most of the televangelists and full-time prosperity preachers are also playing the same scam to differing degrees.
 
You're quite conveniently forgetting the posts I've put to you in the last two pages, which speak of obedience to the commandments of god. The problem here is not my reading of the text, but yours.


No, it isn't. It's opinion, concerning interpretation.

You are christian through circumstance, that circumstance being the place of your birth. Were you born elsewhere, you would not be christian.

You are also not a real christian, by reason of the fact that you do not follow the bible literally.

It is only through your refusal to consider what I'm saying that you can remain unaware of the inconsistency here. You are content with your status quo, and in order to maintain it you have done the intellectual version of shoving your fingers in your ears and singing, "I'm not listening!"

What this demonstrates is that the community - the church - is as important to your faith as the faith itself, which it to your credit. You could not be without association with others for your faith, they're necessary to it. But it weds you to the inconsistencies communal faith possesses; you are connected to the simplest of your group, and to being able to argue it only in a way they'd understand.

You exempt yourself from aspects of the Bible's message, because it would be incompatible with the life you live. This lies in direct contradiction to the bible passages provided to you in this thread. It is not for me to resolve this for you; only you can find a satisfactory answer here. But simply not thinking about it does not mean said inconsistency goes away; it simply means you do not and have not addressed it.
I admit to replying to you with as much patience as possible, as if you are an important person to me, which you may well be.
I read your posts with interest and genuine concern for you, but you do seem very set in your new anti- Christianity.
What is your modus operandi without God in your life? Do you believe in an innate spirituality?
Dog eat dog?
Do whatever feels good?
Thank you for your genuine? concern about the veracity and depth of my Christianity. I do suspect some form of the provocateur in you.
But I shall continue to try on a daily basis to maintain and improve my personal relationship with Jesus , hopefully for the betterment of those in my spheres of influence.
 

Leeda

Talents B Sharp
Suspended
Sep 26, 2012
9,443
1,622
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I admit to replying to you with as much patience as possible, as if you are an important person to me, which you may well be.
I read your posts with interest and genuine concern for you, but you do seem very set in your new anti- Christianity.
What is your modus operandi without God in your life? Do you believe in an innate spirituality?
Dog eat dog?
Do whatever feels good?
Thank you for your genuine? concern about the veracity and depth of my Christianity. I do suspect some form of the provocateur in you.
But I shall continue to try on a daily basis to maintain and improve my personal relationship with Jesus , hopefully for the betterment of those in my spheres of influence.
I didn't feel that Gethelred was being disingenuous in terms of making others feel that they are mentally wrong or else that people were
saying things which he disagreed with...

The sand man is also a defunct character but we don't always say that Charles Dickens is telling strange stories.. or that mutton is a good meat..

No that I can't agree with... Catch me if you can..
 
May 1, 2016
28,403
55,364
AFL Club
Carlton
I admit to replying to you with as much patience as possible, as if you are an important person to me, which you may well be.
I read your posts with interest and genuine concern for you, but you do seem very set in your new anti- Christianity.
What is your modus operandi without God in your life? Do you believe in an innate spirituality?
Dog eat dog?
Do whatever feels good?
Thank you for your genuine? concern about the veracity and depth of my Christianity. I do suspect some form of the provocateur in you.
But I shall continue to try on a daily basis to maintain and improve my personal relationship with Jesus , hopefully for the betterment of those in my spheres of influence.
I appreciate that you continue responding, although I do wish that your posts bore a closer resemblance to what you are quoting and that you answered questions, even if you have to answer with the words, "I don't know but I believe."

I do not believe in innate spirituality. I think it's an invention by a brain that seeks patterns in all things, and by imaginations long dead. I also reject the notion that morals come from god, or any form of religion; religion is codified and self reinforcing behaviour, which is why rulers have used it to repress populations or to generate some form of nationalism via religion. Think, Russian Orthodox; think, the Anglican church. Morals are completely subjective, but that does not render them less important; if anything, it makes them moreso. When I choose to help someone, it isn't because I've a god threatening me with hellfire should I not; I do it because it's the right thing to do, and because people have done it for me.

I desperately want you to attempt some form of intellectual honesty, and to stop lying to yourself. You are practicing a form of self-denial, in which you point blank refuse to countenance some thoughts even before they begin. Your faith would be purer and stronger if you addressed these flaws in your logic, even if all you do is recognize that they are there and you cannot explain them away. If faith is the answer, then it is a universal cure.
 
Jan 12, 2011
25,397
35,576
AFL Club
Collingwood
So, you do make a distinction between different parts of the book to know what to take literally and what to if not ignore take less seriously, and you use your own judgement to decide. Got there in the end.

So, if you're exercising your own judgement to decide what parts of the bible you take literally, how do you reconcile that with the entire work being divinely inspired? Do you believe that God cares less for what he's actually told you to do and more for your sincerity or motivation?
To take that further, the Bible therefore, cannot be the word of god
 

M Malice

Hall of Famer
Aug 31, 2015
31,433
72,024
By the Gabba.
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Valleys. Chelsea.
I appreciate that you continue responding, although I do wish that your posts bore a closer resemblance to what you are quoting and that you answered questions, even if you have to answer with the words, "I don't know but I believe."

I do not believe in innate spirituality. I think it's an invention by a brain that seeks patterns in all things, and by imaginations long dead. I also reject the notion that morals come from god, or any form of religion; religion is codified and self reinforcing behaviour, which is why rulers have used it to repress populations or to generate some form of nationalism via religion. Think, Russian Orthodox; think, the Anglican church. Morals are completely subjective, but that does not render them less important; if anything, it makes them moreso. When I choose to help someone, it isn't because I've a god threatening me with hellfire should I not; I do it because it's the right thing to do, and because people have done it for me.

I desperately want you to attempt some form of intellectual honesty, and to stop lying to yourself. You are practicing a form of self-denial, in which you point blank refuse to countenance some thoughts even before they begin. Your faith would be purer and stronger if you addressed these flaws in your logic, even if all you do is recognize that they are there and you cannot explain them away. If faith is the answer, then it is a universal cure.
Spot on....... if you are living your life empathetically and compassionately simply because you want to get to "heaven" I worry about your mental state, are Christians fighting the urge to rape, murder and steal because of threats? If you are blindly following some holy doctrine without question because in your mind it is the infallible word of god then it logically follows that you could do abhorrent deeds for the same reason which history shows happened and continues to happen.

I don't need some man made creator to tell me right from wrong.
 

Evolved1

Cancelled
10k Posts
Jun 14, 2013
13,076
15,680
AFL Club
Essendon
Spot on....... if you are living your life empathetically and compassionately simply because you want to get to "heaven" I worry about your mental state, are Christians fighting the urge to rape, murder and steal because of threats? If you are blindly following some holy doctrine without question because in your mind it is the infallible word of god then it logically follows that you could do abhorrent deeds for the same reason which history shows happened and continues to happen.

I don't need some man made creator to tell me right from wrong.
At almost every step of progress in knowledge and human rights, religious people are there to oppose it. You only need look at creationist pseudoscience, gay marriage, and women's rights to see that if there be a devil, its name is organized religion.

If Jesus ever lived, he was a pos who believed in killing children and ethnic cleansing.
 

Firenze

Cancelled
Aug 9, 2020
201
228
AFL Club
Geelong
The only qualification I use to gauge if someones faith is genuine is whether they actually believe in the religion and deity, and I have no reason to think that Brian Houston and Pence don't have genuine faith. Mike Pence's beliefs seem to be typical stock standard fundamentalist Christianity.

If you associate the label 'Christian' with positive connotations, I can see why you'd come to that conclusion. The bible gives mixed moral messages and the theological interpretations are vast, which is why I don't define Christians purely by their actions or beliefs.

Trump is different in that he seems to be an atheist masquerading as a Christian in order to gain votes. I am of the opinion that most of the televangelists and full-time prosperity preachers are also playing the same scam to differing degrees.
We see it differently. There's more to faith than a belief in a supreme being. It's supposed to be a lived experience. Watch what people do. Not what they say.
 
Aug 19, 2004
34,419
14,193
Grand Finals
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Team Rafael Nadal
At almost every step of progress in knowledge and human rights, religious people are there to oppose it. You only need look at creationist pseudoscience, gay marriage, and women's rights to see that if there be a devil, its name is organized religion.

If Jesus ever lived, he was a pos who believed in killing children and ethnic cleansing.
Someone quoted something from AnswersinGenesis here. The website has numpties masquerading as 'scientists' trying to prove how creationism is right. The websites disclaimer is clear, the scriptures are infallible. This is something that needs to be emphasized. Science is about taking evidence and reaching whatever conclusion that evidence points to. If you start with a conclusion and only consider evidence that supports it, then what you're doing isn't science. Nothing should be taken for 'granted' or a 'given'. When i was stating my experience i clearly stated people SHOULD not take what i am saying on a face value. Faith exactly does the opposite of that. Someone tells a story and that story becomes a fact!
 

Evolved1

Cancelled
10k Posts
Jun 14, 2013
13,076
15,680
AFL Club
Essendon
Someone quoted something from AnswersinGenesis here. The website has numpties masquerading as 'scientists' trying to prove how creationism is right. The websites disclaimer is clear, the scriptures are infallible. This is something that needs to be emphasized. Science is about taking evidence and reaching whatever conclusion that evidence points to. If you start with a conclusion and only consider evidence that supports it, then what you're doing isn't science. Nothing should be taken for 'granted' or a 'given'. When i was stating my experience i clearly stated people SHOULD not take what i am saying on a face value. Faith exactly does the opposite of that. Someone tells a story and that story becomes a fact!
Many Christians actively seek more faith. They want to believe more strongly in whatever they already believe, and they actively choose to dismiss all doubts and contradictory evidence. Their desire isn't to take an objective view of available evidence because they already have the truth which automatically makes every alternate viewpoint wrong. It's a stagnant mindset.

The fact that all sects of Christianity take the same stance in owning the truth is strong evidence that they are all 'infected' with the same delusion. Catholic delusion, baptist delusion, non-denominational delusion, anglican delusion...they're just different flavours of stupidity under the umbrella of a socially accepted delusion that we call religion.

If I looked at a tennis ball, chose to believe it was a square, and wanted to have stronger faith in that belief, you'd think I'm a ******* moron. That's how I look at religious people.

It's amusing to see religious people praying to their imaginary friend in hope that we too will come to see that the tennis ball is actually a square.
 

Evolved1

Cancelled
10k Posts
Jun 14, 2013
13,076
15,680
AFL Club
Essendon
May 1, 2016
28,403
55,364
AFL Club
Carlton
What scripture explains this?

That whole story is desperately funny, right up until you realise that - for the uncrime of 'desecrating an altar' - he's probably going to prison for 3 years. They've got video evidence and everything.

America has their priorities muddled. He should be in the race as the Republican nominee for president.
 
Well, probably, but it sounded like fun.

Why is it anyone's business what two to five people of age get up to in a private building after dark? Surely God's doing plenty of judgement, no?
Do you have a law degree?
 
May 1, 2016
28,403
55,364
AFL Club
Carlton
Do you have a law degree?
No, but I've studied a number of law subjects as part of my university education. Sadly, no criminal, mainly business related. And even if I had a law degree in Australia, the laws themselves (as well as the context within which they were formed) are different in Louisiana, anyway.

As I understand it, churches in America are considered private, not public property, but that differs between jurisdiction and denomination.

Why?
 
No, but I've studied a number of law subjects as part of my university education. Sadly, no criminal, mainly business related. And even if I had a law degree in Australia, the laws themselves (as well as the context within which they were formed) are different in Louisiana, anyway.

As I understand it, churches in America are considered private, not public property, but that differs between jurisdiction and denomination.

Why?
Curiosity.

(killed the cat, I know.)


Fwiw, you come across as if you'd be a brilliant lawyer
 

Evolved1

Cancelled
10k Posts
Jun 14, 2013
13,076
15,680
AFL Club
Essendon
Most of the Christians who post here regularly support successful clubs like Richmond and Geelong while the atheists support shitty clubs like Essendon and Carlton.

It must be nice living in fantasy land.

The pain that comes with supporting decades of mediocrity left us with little choice but to accept the cold hard facts of reality aka atheism.
 
Most of the Christians who post here regularly support successful clubs like Richmond and Geelong while the atheists support shitty clubs like Essendon and Carlton.

It must be nice living in fantasy land.

The pain that comes with supporting decades of mediocrity left us with little choice but to accept the cold hard facts of reality aka atheism.
Good point.
We had God
Then we had his son.
His son is about to retire.
But we have a great chance to lure JC from GWS.
We hear that Cockatoo may be on the way out, so JC steps into #5.
Always something to look forward to.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back