Religion Ask a Christian - Continued in Part 2

[Chief]

Continued in Part Two:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ask-a-christian-part-2.1295001/unread

 

[Gethelred]

What is familial love?
Love of families?

Love within families. The love between siblings and for a parent or a child.

Do not defect. Do you agree with Boston tiger, when he said that only christians are capable of feeling love?

 

[Evolved1]

There's no truth in Christianity. Only the illusion of truth. VW sidesteps the truth with all of the evasive skills of Gary Ablett jnr.

 

[Vdubs]

There's no truth in Christianity. Only the illusion of truth. VW sidesteps the truth with all of the evasive skills of Gary Ablett jnr.

Arguably GOAT, and not arguably, a fantastic young man and Born Again Christian.

 

[Evolved1]

Arguably GOAT, and not arguably, a fantastic young man and Born Again Christian.

His evasive skills are the best I've seen. The fact that players were coached to avoid tackling him would have been seen as an extraordinary tactic in the not so distant past.

The father and son were very different beasts, but both ATG's. The family have had their share of struggles and I wish them nothing but the best.

 

[Total Power]

His evasive skills are the best I've seen.

Must be a born again Christians number one trait, as witnessed in this thread by our mates evasive skills in answering questions.

 

[Vdubs]

Must be a born again Christians number one trait, as witnessed in this thread by our mates evasive skills in answering questions.

I will only comment on what I know as a Christian, not on others who I have never met, and similarly, previous questions about muslims and their beliefs.
When I tell you guys that many aspects of the OT and some in NT are confusing or confrontational for all of us, it is not good enough for you.
It does not adversely affect my faith, despite raising some of the questions you guys have

 

[Evolved1]

Must be a born again Christians number one trait, as witnessed in this thread by our mates evasive skills in answering questions.

Organised religion muddies the waters with a simple concept like truth. If you're evading the truth, you're probably not trying to find it.

 

[Evolved1]

I will only comment on what I know as a Christian, not on others who I have never met, and similarly, previous questions about muslims and their beliefs.
When I tell you guys that many aspects of the OT and some in NT are confusing or confrontational for all of us, it is not good enough for you.
It does not adversely affect my faith, despite raising some of the questions you guys have

You're happy to make judgements on atheists who post here without ever having met us.

 

[Vdubs]

Organised religion muddies the waters with a simple concept like truth. If you're evading the truth, you're probably not trying to find it.

Or you have found the truth and believe in diplomacy, tact and timing.

 

[Evolved1]

Or you have found the truth and believe in diplomacy, tact and timing.

How do you determine when you've found the truth?

I see it as a journey rather than a destination.

 

[Vdubs]

You're happy to make judgements on atheists who post here without ever having met us.

No judgements , just affirming what you seem to be telling us.

Varied responses like
-no such person as Jesus
-there never was a resurrection
-Christians are deluded, supremacists, narcissists.... the descriptions are endless and derogatory
-no such concept as sin

and some come from those who allegedly previously had a "faith"

 

[Total Power]

No judgements , just affirming what you seem to be telling us.

Varied responses like
-no such person as Jesus
-there never was a resurrection
-Christians are deluded, supremacists, narcissists.... the descriptions are endless and derogatory
-no such concept as sin

and some come from those who allegedly previously had a "faith"

History is not 'dependent' on what faith you have or what you 'choose' to believe. I have presented heaps of evidence here, which you never read, including sayings from Buddha which was 700 years before Jesus, only to be called a conspiracy theoriest by your likes. The resurraction story also happened many many times before Jesus and after Jesus. Whether it's real or not, it's definitely not unique or something that sets Christianity apart. You don't want to acknowledge that, it's your choice.

And Christians (atleast in this thread) are supremacists, you guys have absolutely made it clear that your way is the right way and others have false gods. You said it several times, the only way to god is Jesus! That is supremacist attitude, no different that white power movements out there. You have little or no respect for any other thoughts outside of yours. I said i am not against Christianity, i am against fundamentalism and indoctrination which and both and BT seem to be displaying here. Hope i am clear now.

 

[Evolved1]

No judgements , just affirming what you seem to be telling us.

Varied responses like
-no such person as Jesus
-there never was a resurrection
-Christians are deluded, supremacists, narcissists.... the descriptions are endless and derogatory
-no such concept as sin

and some come from those who allegedly previously had a "faith"

Atheists are like cats in that we're not easily herded. I only answer for myself and am more than happy to share my views:
1. Jesus probably existed. It's not a big issue for me.
2. The resurrection is equally probable as many other alleged religious miracles. That's my tactful diplomatic answer.
3. Theists share a common delusion, so you're not alone. I don't agree that you're a supremacist or narcissist purely because you have faith.
4. Sin is a religious concept. People who don't believe in your god aren't going to believe in his list of offenses. I accept the idea of sin as a theoretical concept, but I don't accept that I'm a sinner. Does that make sense?

 

[Vdubs]

How do you determine when you've found the truth?

I see it as a journey rather than a destination.

when your previous tracking was all over the place, and after accepting Jesus, life has meaning and purpose way beyond your own selfish existence and issues.

History is not 'dependent' on what faith you have or what you 'choose' to believe. I have presented heaps of evidence here, which you never read, including sayings from Buddha which was 700 years before Jesus, only to be called a conspiracy theoriest by your likes. The resurraction story also happened many many times before Jesus and after Jesus. Whether it's real or not, it's definitely not unique or something that sets Christianity apart. You don't want to acknowledge that, it's your choice.

And Christians (atleast in this thread) are supremacists, you guys have absolutely made it clear that your way is the right way and others have false gods. You said it several times, the only way to god is Jesus! That is supremacist attitude, no different that white power movements out there. You little or no respect for any other thoughts outside of yours. I said i am not against Christianity, i am against fundamentalism and indoctrination which and both and BT seem to be displaying here. Hope i am clear now.

When you believe you have the truth, why not try and help those who seem to need it by sharing those experiences?
If you discover it's not for you, fine, no need to come and espouse your own alternative belief system over and over and over.

 

[Total Power]

[/QUOTE]

When you believe you have the truth, why not try and help those who seem to need it by sharing those experiences?
If you discover it's not for you, fine, no need to come and espouse your own alternative belief system over and over and over.

You have learned nothing from history have you? Millions of lives lost due to this kind of attitude. YOUR truth is not others' truth. Live and let live, if Bible was any good, it wouldn't have had such a brutal past in spreading Christianity all over the world.

AFL to me is the best sport in the world, what do you think a bloke in Manchester would think about this?

 

[Total Power]

4. Sin is a religious concept. People who don't believe in your god aren't going to believe in his list of offenses. I accept the idea of sin as a theoretical concept, but I don't accept that I'm a sinner. Does that make sense?

The bible even says you shall not inherit the sins of the father.. yet we apparently inherited the sins of the father.

Hello, my name is consistency. I'm not currently present. Leave a message at the beep.

 

[Gethelred]

No judgements , just affirming what you seem to be telling us.

Varied responses like
-no such person as Jesus
-there never was a resurrection
-Christians are deluded, supremacists, narcissists.... the descriptions are endless and derogatory
-no such concept as sin

and some come from those who allegedly previously had a "faith"

I've refrained from saying each of those things, except for the last. Sin is a construct, just as all abstract concepts are, and it requires belief in a deity to sin against for it to function; ergo, those without belief cannot sin.

I think you're misguided and indoctrinated, because that was my experience of religion. They got you good enough when you were young, and you failed to get out before it sank in too deeply.

I don't really care if Jesus existed. I think that some of the bible is wonderfully written, and is some of our best prose even translated (and retranslated, however many times). I think that there's an awful lot of incredibly ****ed up s**t in there, too; what of Saul's demand of David to collect 200 philistine foreskins (1 Samuel 18:27) for example.

But beyond all else, I think you're humans in dire need of help, to avoid making the mistakes of prior generations. Religion served us well in binding us together during our prehistory, but it's lingered long beyond its usefulness. It's marred our darkest days, and turned families against each other.

I suppose the reason I keep coming back to this thread - ironically - is the same reason you do. I hope that at some point something'll stick, and you will actually confront the problems you refuse to vocalise in here, and you'll see reality for what it is.

Life is no less miraculous for lack of a creator.

 

[Evolved1]

when your previous tracking was all over the place, and after accepting Jesus, life has meaning and purpose way beyond your own selfish existence and issues.

Fair enough.

There's not a lot of value to be had from debating subjective experiences. I've seen testimonies from both ends of the scale, including some who lost their faith after times of heartbreak.

My view is that subjective experience viewed in isolation isn't indicative of truth.

 

[Total Power]

Fair enough.

There's not a lot of value to be had from debating subjective experiences. I've seen testimonies from both ends of the scale, including some who lost their faith after times of heartbreak.

My view is that subjective experience viewed in isolation isn't indicative of truth.

You can ask the Muslims too, they will tell you the exact same thing. Confirmation bias is a horrible thing but believing in a big brother (whether is Krisha, allah, jesus is irrelevant) looking after you can have certain psychological benefits though, i have seen this with a few of my friends. So i can totally see where Vdubs is coming from

 

[Evolved1]

I've refrained from saying each of those things, except for the last. Sin is a construct, just as all abstract concepts are, and it requires belief in a deity to sin against for it to function; ergo, those without belief cannot sin.

I think you're misguided and indoctrinated, because that was my experience of religion. They got you good enough when you were young, and you failed to get out before it sank in too deeply.

I don't really care if Jesus existed. I think that some of the bible is wonderfully written, and is some of our best prose even translated (and retranslated, however many times). I think that there's an awful lot of incredibly f’ed up sh*t in there, too; what of Saul's demand of David to collect 200 philistine foreskins (1 Samuel 18:27) for example.

But beyond all else, I think you're humans in dire need of help, to avoid making the mistakes of prior generations. Religion served us well in binding us together during our prehistory, but it's lingered long beyond its usefulness. It's marred our darkest days, and turned families against each other.

I suppose the reason I keep coming back to this thread - ironically - is the same reason you do. I hope that at some point something'll stick, and you will actually confront the problems you refuse to vocalise in here, and you'll see reality for what it is.

Life is no less miraculous for lack of a creator.

You're a far kinder man than I.

I have two creators. My dad banged my mum and gave her a creampie, and 9 months later I popped out. As much as I'd love it to be true, I can't see anything miraculous about the process.

I keep coming back because religious people are ******* funny. Whether they agree with my pov or not isn't particularly important.

 

[Vdubs]

I've refrained from saying each of those things, except for the last. Sin is a construct, just as all abstract concepts are, and it requires belief in a deity to sin against for it to function; ergo, those without belief cannot sin.

I think you're misguided and indoctrinated, because that was my experience of religion. They got you good enough when you were young, and you failed to get out before it sank in too deeply.

I don't really care if Jesus existed. I think that some of the bible is wonderfully written, and is some of our best prose even translated (and retranslated, however many times). I think that there's an awful lot of incredibly f’ed up sh*t in there, too; what of Saul's demand of David to collect 200 philistine foreskins (1 Samuel 18:27) for example.

But beyond all else, I think you're humans in dire need of help, to avoid making the mistakes of prior generations. Religion served us well in binding us together during our prehistory, but it's lingered long beyond its usefulness. It's marred our darkest days, and turned families against each other.

I suppose the reason I keep coming back to this thread - ironically - is the same reason you do. I hope that at some point something'll stick, and you will actually confront the problems you refuse to vocalise in here, and you'll see reality for what it is.

Life is no less miraculous for lack of a creator.

My own experience of conversion was around 28yo.
Not really young.
Nearly 40 years later, it still is real and true. Whether we Christians are part of a deluded worldwide club of deluded misfits who simply need there to be a God, and Jesus, is not my experience.
Christians are over time, fully aware of the opposition, taunts, and ridicule, and we expect it. Almost part of the valour of being a Christian. If we just blended into society anonymously, and prayed and read at home in silence, we would not be fulfilling our call.
While we don't do the doorknock thing that Mormons etc do, we are happy to share our Good News when appropriate opportunities present.. For some people, that is exactly what they need to hear. For you lot here, it appears to be antagonistic. I apologise for that; the intent was not to aggravate, but really to answer your questions to the best of my ability. Admittedly, the 4 or 5 of you that we have most contact with here, are clearly highly educated regarding this issue. It does not mean I buy your reasons for deconverting etc.; it just confirms that there are people who had my questions but were not prepared to have the child-like faith and acceptance of the Good News like we do.

 

[Vdubs]

Fair enough.

There's not a lot of value to be had from debating subjective experiences. I've seen testimonies from both ends of the scale, including some who lost their faith after times of heartbreak.

My view is that subjective experience viewed in isolation isn't indicative of truth.

Agreed.
That's why my life experience as a Christian of nearly 40 years is significant.
I am skeptical enough as a person, cynical enough, glass half empty enough, to have easily walked away from it all. Just read my posts on the Geelong board. I call my posting realism... anyway, I hope the point is clear, it is way beyond a fleeting moment of epiphany.

 

[Vdubs]

You're a far kinder man than I.

I have two creators. My dad banged my mum and gave her a creampie, and 9 months later I popped out. As much as I'd love it to be true, I can't see anything miraculous about the process.

I keep coming back because religious people are ******* funny. Whether they agree with my pov or not isn't particularly important.

I hardly call myself religious, far from it.
Funny? - dry maybe. Peculiar? Of course. The only way to be.
Where do we come from, and why? You never wonder ?

 

[Total Power]

Agreed.
That's why my life experience as a Christian of nearly 40 years is significant.
I am skeptical enough as a person, cynical enough, glass half empty enough, to have easily walked away from it all. Just read my posts on the Geelong board. I call my posting realism... anyway, I hope the point is clear, it is way beyond a fleeting moment of epiphany.

Why are you so different here then? do you 'truly' believe, the dead can rise up after 96 hours? not asking about faith, if you think you are skeptical cynical etc, nothing shows me that you are glass half full person more like glass overflowing person (atleast by your posts here). Rigor Mortis sets in after 9 hours, it's irreversible, when in physical world, even god(s) will be subjected to the laws of physics and biology.

You ignore the Gospels, which state that Jesus was raised bodily. Jesus says it himself. He eats, he has wounds on his body, and he says he has not yet ascended.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Arguably GOAT, and not arguably, a fantastic young man and Born Again Christian.

Alisha Horan, say her name MF, say her name, Alisha Horan!