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Boston tiger

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I don't how anyone can simultaneously espouse and laud the 'scientific process' yet fully advocate the existence of their god and keep a straight face. Must be some interesting mental gymnastics going on there?
Atheists don’t have the capacity to comprehend a concept of God so I think they try and marry it with science some how. Like your self.
 

Vdubs

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This is complete and utter rubbish.
Not so.
Viruses vary considerably in their ability to cause disease. Many known viruses are not associated with disease at all. Others cause mild symptoms that may often go undetected. Some, like the HIV virus that causes AIDS in people, appear to have come from another species where they do not cause disease. Given our current knowledge of viruses, it is quite reasonable to believe that disease-causing viruses are descended from viruses that were once not harmful.
It has been suggested that they have played an important role in maintaining life on Earth—somewhat similar to the way bacteria do
 

Roylion

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"He did. All things. But man's selfishness and moral choices has allowed viruses, which are normally a natural entity that allows life to flourish, to become dangerous-the cause is a basic disconnect.
"

As I said, complete and utter rubbish.

Viruses vary considerably in their ability to cause disease. Many known viruses are not associated with disease at all. Others cause mild symptoms that may often go undetected. Some, like the HIV virus that causes AIDS in people, appear to have come from another species where they do not cause disease. Given our current knowledge of viruses, it is quite reasonable to believe that disease-causing viruses are descended from viruses that were once not harmful.
It has been suggested that they have played an important role in maintaining life on Earth—somewhat similar to the way bacteria do
I don't recall you saying this earlier.
 

twotooto

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Atheists don’t have the capacity to comprehend a concept of God so I think they try and marry it with science some how. Like your self.
A concept? Sure.

Reality? No.

The only evidence you - or any other devoutly religiously person - can provide is that which is based on belief and/or faith. And that's fine, but belief and faith are not facts, nor are they scientific.

Hence my point - those who proclaim the existence of their god can not also claim to be about hard evidence and facts.

Over and above all of that, the real tragedy is that so much of our society as we know it is based on a complete crock of sh*t. As time goes on, I hope to see more and more people wake up the lie that is religion and a denominational god and its insidious grip on the societal mores and constructs on which much of our society has been based and evolved from(evolved<>evolution, good words those).
 
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chelseacarlton

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He did. All things. But man's selfishness and moral choices has allowed viruses, which are normally a natural entity that allows life to flourish, to become dangerous-the cause is a basic disconnect. Our selfishness leads to things going wrong in the environment. God has allowed this to continue on, but free will and our capacity to do what we do, means God will not necessarily step in. He has given men and women the intelligence to help us through the pandemics by our ability to produce vaccines.. My question was about the often reported Chinese influence on Covid 19, but that is mischievous.

God allowing pandemics, and all other forms of pain and suffering, alerts us to danger, and tests our character. We find out who we are at times of extreme pain and suffering. At times like that, people can discover the sufficiency of God.
That is one way of viewing the world, i suppose, not a very good way, but it’s a way.
Kinda like jumping off a tall building to get to the really great coffee shop next door, it’s a way, not a very good way, but it’s probably the quickest.
 
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Total Power

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He certainly allows this fallen race to be subjected to them. Scientific, technological, engineering etc progress has been stunning in many areas, but it can come at a cost. There is no doubt about that.
Can you name a thing that doesn't come at a cost? you say 'you believing in christ means you lose nothing'. You actually lose everything life stands for, freedom, goodwill and you live in fear and degrade yourself as a sinner thinking 'if i dont repent i am going to hell'. What a life to lead, that is the price you pay for believing in your stuff. Sure it makes you sleep well at night and makes you a better human but you have sold your conscience out by believing you are a sinner by default.

Science on the other hand the pros outweight the cons. We live 3 times as much as we did 200 years ago, poverty rates are at an all time low, death from natural disasters at all time low, we are also living in the most peaceful era in human history. Yes nothing is perfect, but this is as good as it gets, the fact that i am able to have a conversation like this with someone i never met is also a miracle of science.

You live this life in hope to live after you die, we live to live this life, at the fullest.
 

Total Power

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He did. All things. But man's selfishness and moral choices has allowed viruses, which are normally a natural entity that allows life to flourish, to become dangerous-the cause is a basic disconnect. Our selfishness leads to things going wrong in the environment. God has allowed this to continue on, but free will and our capacity to do what we do, means God will not necessarily step in. He has given men and women the intelligence to help us through the pandemics by our ability to produce vaccines.. My question was about the often reported Chinese influence on Covid 19, but that is mischievous.

God allowing pandemics, and all other forms of pain and suffering, alerts us to danger, and tests our character. We find out who we are at times of extreme pain and suffering. At times like that, people can discover the sufficiency of God.
You have pretty much said what i said and just evoked god in it when there was actually no need to. You believe in evolution BUT you just like to say God did it when it's not supported by any evidence whatsoever. Interesting to see how many Christians account for natural suffering by saying it is the consequence of the fall and sin entering the world. This relates to the post i made on how evolution disproves Christianity and great design hypothesis you guys have. We know that in the evolutionary process, disease and pain and death have always been a part of it, long before humans came on the scene. Evolution disproves this Christian idea that it was the fall that let natural suffering into the world when God cursed the ground. We know that diseases and death and pain have been around long before humans.
 

Total Power

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not on current evidence
Religious morality is not morality at all, its obedience. Obedience to the word of God. Religious morality is psychopathic in that sense. Empathy does not enter into it. What is and what is not moral is just whatever the authority figure says. Someone who is incapable of empathy is a psychopath.

If your a soldier and I'm your superior and I say kill that 12 year old girl's father, mother, brothers and older sisters but keep her alive so you can rape her, you would be horrified. But in Numbers 31 Moses orders the Israelites to do exactly this. So if you do get your morality from religion you are a psychopath who has no moral compass beyond doing whatever you are told whether good or evil, and if you ARE repulsed by the idea of rape, slavery, paedophilia and murder then your religious beliefs are redundant because you are not using them to make moral decisions.

Everyone chooses their morals, either directly or indirectly. Most Christians pick and choose among the commandments in the Bible --- it's no longer fashionable to stone people for gay sex or adultery, for example, and some of the most ardent Bible thumpers manage to ignore everything Jesus said about helping the poor or sick. While believers like you ignore verses where Jesus said you have material possessions and don't help the poor you cannot be my disciple. So you/us have clearly 'selected' the parts of Bible, which suits you/us (forever life, repentance, stoning gays blah blah). However, speaking for myself, as a non-religious Gnostic- I do not believe it is in my nature to hurt or harm others. It has been a long time (probably since my highschool years) that I have acted on a desire to inflict trouble on someone else. The process of becoming a responsible and self-sufficient adult has essentially settled me into a pattern of acting towards others the way I would like to be treated in those situations. Going back to what Buddha and Confucius said 'treat others how you want to be treated'.

Surely there have been situations in which I have unintentionally said or done something that caused someone else harm - but if and when I discover this I try to do the responsible thing and make it right.

You either have an "objective" system (according to you) that is obviously immoral, in that it authorizes slavery, commands babies to be killed, treats women as property, authorizes genocide, and so forth, you have what you consider to be a non-objective system in which slavery, killing babies, slaughtering entire peoples is wrong. Would you invite me (a non-believer) into your house for a drink? If yes, then you already have discarded verses which tells you not to allow the 'wicked' (unbelievers) into your house. No Christians i know of call Atheists wicked anymore. But both chritianity and Islam emphasizes how atheists are corrupted and you must not associate yourself with them. Clearly no one believes in this anymore. So you already are a non-believer, you just choose parts which fits you.

I'm not particularly point scoring here, ethics and morals are a very difficult problem for all of us but pretending belief in the Bible somehow solves the problem is a joke.
 
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Boston tiger

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A concept? Sure.

Reality? No.

The only evidence you - or any other devoutly religiously person - can provide is that which is based on belief and/or faith. And that's fine, but belief and faith are not facts, nor are they scientific.

Hence my point - those who proclaim the existence of their god can not also claim to be about hard evidence and facts.

Over and above all of that, the real tragedy is that so much of our society as we know it is based on a complete crock of sh*t. As time goes on, I hope to see more and more people wake up the lie that is religion and a denominational god and its insidious grip on the societal mores and constructs on which much of our society has been based and evolved from(evolved<>evolution, good words those).
Is existence evidence? The more science finds out the more obvious God becomes .
 

Boston tiger

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A concept? Sure.

Reality? No.

The only evidence you - or any other devoutly religiously person - can provide is that which is based on belief and/or faith. And that's fine, but belief and faith are not facts, nor are they scientific.

Hence my point - those who proclaim the existence of their god can not also claim to be about hard evidence and facts.

Over and above all of that, the real tragedy is that so much of our society as we know it is based on a complete crock of sh*t. As time goes on, I hope to see more and more people wake up the lie that is religion and a denominational god and its insidious grip on the societal mores and constructs on which much of our society has been based and evolved from(evolved<>evolution, good words those).
Our society has been based on love .. thank you Lord Jesus

We evolved to see God but what is happening now is ..as machines evolve humans are devolving .

Science is great but it has nothing to do with whether there is a God or not.
There is stuff and it’s motion .. that is all science keeps telling us and we have always known that.

Start thinking like a human and not a rabbit or computer.
 

chelseacarlton

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Our society has been based on love .. thank you Lord Jesus

We evolved to see God but what is happening now is ..as machines evolve humans are devolving .

Science is great but it has nothing to do with whether there is a God or not.
There is stuff and it’s motion .. that is all science keeps telling us and we have always known that.

Start thinking like a human and not a rabbit or computer.
What about a computer robot rabbit?
Maybe with laser eyes and armed to the teeth and it’s ears could have radar tech and it’s cute little fluffy tail could have a nuke and missile capabilities?
Or we could all be like you and be a sheep and follow our neighbours to the gallows, after being fleeced and f’ed by the pastor of our choice?
 

Gethelred

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Religious morality is not morality at all, its obedience. Obedience to the word of God. Religious morality is psychopathic in that sense. Empathy does not enter into it. What is and what is not moral is just whatever the authority figure says. Someone who is incapable of empathy is a psychopath.

If your a soldier and I'm your superior and I say kill that 12 year old girl's father, mother, brothers and older sisters but keep her alive so you can rape her, you would be horrified. But in Numbers 31 Moses orders the Israelites to do exactly this. So if you do get your morality from religion you are a psychopath who has no moral compass beyond doing whatever you are told whether good or evil, and if you ARE repulsed by the idea of rape, slavery, paedophilia and murder then your religious beliefs are redundant because you are not using them to make moral decisions.

Everyone chooses their morals, either directly or indirectly. Most Christians pick and choose among the commandments in the Bible --- it's no longer fashionable to stone people for gay sex or adultery, for example, and some of the most ardent Bible thumpers manage to ignore everything Jesus said about helping the poor or sick. While believers like you ignore verses where Jesus said you have material possessions and don't help the poor you cannot be my disciple. So you/us have clearly 'selected' the parts of Bible, which suits you/us (forever life, repentance, stoning gays blah blah). However, speaking for myself, as a non-religious Gnostic- I do not believe it is in my nature to hurt or harm others. It has been a long time (probably since my highschool years) that I have acted on a desire to inflict trouble on someone else. The process of becoming a responsible and self-sufficient adult has essentially settled me into a pattern of acting towards others the way I would like to be treated in those situations. Going back to what Buddha and Confucius said 'treat others how you want to be treated'.

Surely there have been situations in which I have unintentionally said or done something that caused someone else harm - but if and when I discover this I try to do the responsible thing and make it right.

You either have an "objective" system (according to you) that is obviously immoral, in that it authorizes slavery, commands babies to be killed, treats women as property, authorizes genocide, and so forth, you have what you consider to be a non-objective system in which slavery, killing babies, slaughtering entire peoples is wrong. Would you invite me (a non-believer) into your house for a drink? If yes, then you already have discarded verses which tells you not to allow the 'wicked' (unbelievers) into your house. No Christians i know of call Atheists wicked anymore. But both chritianity and Islam emphasizes how atheists are corrupted and you must not associate yourself with them. Clearly no one believes in this anymore. So you already are a non-believer, you just choose parts which fits you.

I'm not particularly point scoring here, ethics and morals are a very difficult problem for all of us but pretending belief in the Bible somehow solves the problem is a joke.
I agree with the post, but you'd do better directing this at indoistriku.
 

Gethelred

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Our society has been based on love .. thank you Lord Jesus

We evolved to see God but what is happening now is ..as machines evolve humans are devolving .

Science is great but it has nothing to do with whether there is a God or not.
There is stuff and it’s motion .. that is all science keeps telling us and we have always known that.

Start thinking like a human and not a rabbit or computer.
Any society based on christianity is based on death, not love. You behave in life to ensure a better afterlife; you marry and have children because it's what God would want you to do; you only have sex when and how he says, because you don't want to go to hell.

Christianity's iconography is centred around the crucifix, the emblem of Jesus's suffering and his death.
 

chelseacarlton

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Its getting even more crazy in here
Don’t see how my previous post is that crazy, my high tech rabbit has more chance of existing in the not too distant future compared to evidence of their god.
Or if you weren’t referring to me, I might go start working on my bunny lasered eyed assassin.😀
 

chelseacarlton

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Any society based on christianity is based on death, not love. You behave in life to ensure a better afterlife; you marry and have children because it's what God would want you to do; you only have sex when and how he says, because you don't want to go to hell.

Christianity's iconography is centred around the crucifix, the emblem of Jesus's suffering and his death.
Death cult.
 

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