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twotooto

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Can't stress on this enough, all my reasoning here have failed, i have quoted verses where Jesus said on FOUR different occasions NOT to follow him if they still have material possessions, not to follow him if they don't feed the hungry and the poor, NOT to follow him, unless they care for the sick. All fallen in deaf ears. Vdubs thinks belief and repent is enough to get a pass to eternal life just like MSM christians believe. The other 5.5 billion people are........ well i have explained a 100 times here what happens to the unbelievers.
As an allegorical tale, the story of Jesus is awesome. And yeah, I'm sure we could all learn from at least some of the teachings and apply them in our lives in a beneficial way.

But somewhere along the line, some greedy f***ers worked out how to use the big stick aspect to leverage religion to instil fear and use it to control the unwitting, sin riddled heathen masses(proud sin dwelling heathen here) for their own gain.

If the miraculous does happen and good bloke J-man does indeed return to the fray, I reckon it will be said greedy f***ers that actually get to spend eternity in the naughty corner. The other 5.5 billion will be mostly just fine.
 
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Vdubs

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Not debatable, the number is actually higher, i am a citizen of Sweden (along with Australia too). No one here believes in Bible/Christ/Allah etc. NONE. In all my time in Sweden i know about 20 people who are Christians and that's being generous.


Whatelse would you use as a metric? health, corruption, social support, wealth, frreedom.....whatelse do you need? how do you build a society like that through religion? answer: you cannot.
Come on, yOu can and must do better than that. Just your own personal knowledge of people is irrelevant. Facts are facts. Just like you claiMing my knowledge of numbers of Christians would be biased by who I know.
 

Total Power

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Come on, yOu can and must do better than that. Just your own personal knowledge of people is irrelevant. Facts are facts. Just like you claiMing my knowledge of numbers of Christians would be biased by who I know.
Christian verses are open to interpretations, in millions of different ways, Demographc facts on the other hand, aren't.

You clearly don't understand the system in scandnavian nations. In sweden you must register with the church if you have a passport, by law (repealed in 2014). My cousins son who was born in 2013 was registed with the church but my son who was born in 16, wasn't. My cousin will be counted as a luteran 'member' under national statistics. Same as denmark. In 2014 79.8% of danes were members of the evangelical lutheran state religion, Folkekirken, but only 2.4% say they attend weekly mass

One of the reasons why so many Swedes belong to the Church of Sweden is that up until 1991, nine years before the separation of church and state in Sweden, the church was in charge of keeping and maintaining the civil registry - which meant that if you were born and baptized here, you were automatically a member of the church. it's the exact same in Denmark and Finland too. Norway is different. They are flat out atheists.

I will grant that many of those non-Chrisitan swedes don't call themselves atheists as they hate 'tags' to their names, they say, they simply don't care about any fairy tales/gods or existence of paranormal. Etc. But they are NOT christians nor they are religious. I have no issues with spiritual people (Myself being one) however Xtians/Muslims, they are NOT.

See here



All Danish citizens automatically become members of the Church of Denmark when they are baptised and can withdraw by written application to their parish office or by joining another faith.


Most people don't bother to withdraw, like i am Registered with the Lutheran Church in Umea in Sweden, so technically, i am a Christian! I live in eastern europe now, i can't be bothered going to Umea, filing applications, filing petitions, then appearing in Umea in person! etc..why would i waste my time???

You should be more intelligent than blindly copy pasting stuff



You should research more before copy paste something, i am telling ya society here is atheist, all of them, very few exceptions.
 
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Gethelred

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Come on, yOu can and must do better than that. Just your own personal knowledge of people is irrelevant. Facts are facts. Just like you claiMing my knowledge of numbers of Christians would be biased by who I know.
I have a question for a christian.

What's with the sudden capitalization of some of the letters in this post? Are you lunging at those syllables?
 

chelseacarlton

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Wow Chelsea. You threw in the towel early.
In what way, it’s clear to anyone without having been poisoned by, or freed by independent logic and reading that the Abrahamic cults are misogynistic and hateful toward the feminine.
Even the mother was raped, the lead female protagonist in the fairytale was a prostitute, at every step, women are degraded, they are war trophies or sex slaves, even the babies.
In many churches to this day, women have very little power.
This should clear it up for you,

1 Timothy 2:12
New International Version



12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[a] she must be quiet.(A)

Any questions?
I think you might be confusing me for throwing in the towel with me have knocked you out and your corner placing a towel under your head on the canvass as they call in the medical staff.
I’m already back in my dressing room sucking down some Bollinger darling!
 

Total Power

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As an allegorical tale, the story of Jesus is awesome. And yeah, I'm sure we could all learn from at least some of the teachings and apply them in our lives in a beneficial way.

But somewhere along the line, some greedy f***ers worked out how to use the big stick aspect to leverage religion to instil fear and use it to control the unwitting, sin riddled heathen masses(proud sin dwelling heathen here) for their own gain.

If the miraculous does happen and good bloke J-man does indeed return to the fray, I reckon it will be said greedy f***ers that actually get to spend eternity in the naughty corner. The other 5.5 billion will be mostly just fine.
They killed off anyone who studied symbology, they killed off anyone who practiced meditation. Prior to Nicea, early Christians were non-trinitarian and Gnostics and Arians developed their religion based on practice and Christ was more of a principle (Christ consciousness). Didn't sit well with Constantine. What these Xtians read now is basically Nicean Christianity.
 

twotooto

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Just in Australia, it's estimated that the Catholic Church alone is worth 30 billion dollars ~

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-12/catholic-church-worth-$30-billion-investigation-finds/9422246#:~:text=Catholic Church national wealth estimated to be $30 billion, investigation finds,-The World Today

Yet in the above article, written three years ago, it is alleged that the CC in Victoria alone is worth 9 billion, yet claims it's worth is only 109 million(lol the real estate value alone would far surpass that).

Can you imagine how much the church is worth across the globe? The church/s, as a collective, have accumulated vast amounts of wealth and assets, all tax free, and have informed policy and practices in countless govts(see the pos running our country) and massive mega corps the world over yet professes to be about the down trodden and the poor. I don't disagree that they haven't positively impacted a lot of lives(and ruined many) but they could be doing much, much more.

How can they be taken seriously when they have, at their fingertips, the means and the resources to alleviate the suffering of 100s of millions the world over yet they continue to hoard and accumulate?(How about dispersing some of that wealth?). Answer - they cannot be taken seriously and they won't be going away any time soon but let's at least tax the bastards.
 

western royboy

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As an allegorical tale, the story of Jesus is awesome. And yeah, I'm sure we could all learn from at least some of the teachings and apply them in our lives in a beneficial way.

But somewhere along the line, some greedy f***ers worked out how to use the big stick aspect to leverage religion to instil fear and use it to control the unwitting, sin riddled heathen masses(proud sin dwelling heathen here) for their own gain.

If the miraculous does happen and good bloke J-man does indeed return to the fray, I reckon it will be said greedy f***ers that actually get to spend eternity in the naughty corner. The other 5.5 billion will be mostly just fine.
And just imagine for a minute that he did come back - where would he end up? In a Psych ward - not even up for debate, so as I suggest he may have come back many times, but he hasn‘t as yet been able to get past the gatekeepers.
 

Doctor B

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God decides who lives. Simple fact.
We know we will all die.
I can only assume that the fact I am still alive, God has not yet finished with me in this life. To each day, I am thankful, and that is how i start each day- a prayer of thanks.
There have always been doctors in some form, and this has EVOLVED in sophistication over the centuries.
Hitler was mid 50's when he suicided- not a long life. Eddie Jaku is over 100yo.
Your quote "God decides who lives. Simple fact" is truly abhorrent to me.

How do you reconcile that in 2018 there were nearly 3000 perinatal deaths in Australia.
Countless small children pass away from cancers, brain tumors etc. Your God decides this?

Had God finished with these infants?

How do you reconcile that God decides that murderers like Ivan Milat can live a long life and infants die?

If God is responsible for the creation of all things why do we have cancer, CAD, MS etc.??
 

TheGreatBarryB

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Just in Australia, it's estimated that the Catholic Church alone is worth 30 billion dollars ~

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-12/catholic-church-worth-$30-billion-investigation-finds/9422246#:~:text=Catholic Church national wealth estimated to be $30 billion, investigation finds,-The World Today

Yet in the above article, written three years ago, it is alleged that the CC in Victoria alone is worth 9 billion, yet claims it's worth is only 109 million(lol the real estate value alone would far surpass that).

Can you imagine how much the church is worth across the globe? The church/s, as a collective, have accumulated vast amounts of wealth and assets, all tax free, and have informed policy and practices in countless govts(see the pos running our country) and massive mega corps the world over yet professes to be about the down trodden and the poor. I don't disagree that they haven't positively impacted a lot of lives(and ruined many) but they could be doing much, much more.

How can they be taken seriously when they have, at their fingertips, the means and the resources to alleviate the suffering of 100s of millions the world over yet they continue to hoard and accumulate?(How about dispersing some of that wealth?). Answer - they cannot be taken seriously and they won't be going away any time soon but let's at least tax the bastards.
Second biggest landholder in the country behind Westfield
 

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SBD Gonzalez

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Kidding, right?
Why don't the Renegades here get together and formulate their own manual of life, with instructions for life, and the explanation of how everything was formed and evolved, and how we get to today, and what the future holds.
You are sick of not getting your questions answered, surely by now you have the means to produce the definitive document, and like Elon Musk, we will allow regular updates...
I already have. I am a nihilist. I have expounded upon it numerous times on these pages. Just because I'm a nihilist doesn't mean I don't have other interests in my life, and certainly doesn't mean I don't enjoy locking horns with people who aren't nihilists.

You have not shown the slightest interest in understanding nihilism, so why does your Christianity automatically deserve so much more respect?

If being a Christian means shutting down all further curiosity about life then it's a lot less impressive than I thought.
 

Roylion

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I contend that those who reject the existence of God are acting irrationally and illogically. How can creation exist if not for a Creator? If God didn't create the universe, who or what process did?
Stephen Hawking: "I think the universe was spontaneously created out of nothing, according to the laws of science. If you accept, as I do, that the laws of nature are fixed, then it doesn't take long to ask: What role is there for God?"

Hawking was a champion of the Big Bang theory - the idea that the universe began by exploding suddenly out of an ultradense singularity smaller than an atom. From this speck emerged all the matter, energy and empty space that the universe would ever contain, and all that raw material evolved into the cosmos we perceive today by following a strict set of scientific laws. To Hawking the combined laws of gravity, relativity, quantum physics and a few other rules could explain everything that ever happened or ever will happen in our known universe.

"If you like, you can say the laws are the work of God, but that is more a definition of God than a proof of his existence. Did God create the quantum laws that allowed the Big Bang to occur? I have no desire to offend anyone of faith, but I think science has a more compelling explanation than a divine creator."

Hawking's explanation points to quantum mechanics, which explains how subatomic particles behave. In quantum studies, it's common to see subatomic particles like protons and electrons seemingly appear out of nowhere, stick around for a while and then disappear again to a completely different location. Because the universe was once the size of a subatomic particle itself, it's plausible that it behaved similarly during the Big Bang.

"The universe itself, in all its mind-boggling vastness and complexity, could simply have popped into existence without violating the known laws of nature,"


The possibility that God created that proton-size singularity, then flipped the quantum - mechanical switch that allowed it to pop was disputed by Hawking. Hawking argued science has an explanation. He pointed to the physics of black holes - collapsed stars that are so dense, nothing, including light, can escape their pull. Black holes, like the universe before the Big Bang, condense into a singularity. In this ultra-packed point of mass, gravity is so strong that it distorts time as well as light and space. Simply put, in the depths of a black hole, time does not exist.

Because the universe also began as a singularity, time itself could not have existed before the Big Bang. Hawking's answer, then, to what happened before the Big Bang is, "there was no time before the Big Bang."

"We have finally found something that doesn’t have a cause, because there was no time for a cause to exist in. For me this means that there is no possibility of a creator, because there is no time for a creator to have existed in."
 

Jibroni

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A question for Christians.

How do you know when god is speaking to you?

As a lapsed Christian its comparable to when Obe wen Kenobi would speak with Luke Skywalker.

But seriously outside of meditating on scripture or hoping to receive an answer from prayer the majority of Christians would not know.
 

Vdubs

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Your quote "God decides who lives. Simple fact" is truly abhorrent to me.

How do you reconcile that in 2018 there were nearly 3000 perinatal deaths in Australia.
Countless small children pass away from cancers, brain tumors etc. Your God decides this?

Had God finished with these infants?

How do you reconcile that God decides that murderers like Ivan Milat can live a long life and infants die?

If God is responsible for the creation of all things why do we have cancer, CAD, MS etc.??
Abhorrent or not, it's a fact. And if it's not God, how do you explain your statements? Are you pissed off about evolution gone awry? God allows this fallen world to have ups and downs, but you simply have no explanation, and hence nothing to be angry about because you're a non-believer.
 

Total Power

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Abhorrent or not, it's a fact. And if it's not God, how do you explain your statements? Are you pissed off about evolution gone awry? God allows this fallen world to have ups and downs, but you simply have no explanation, and hence nothing to be angry about because you're a non-believer.
Can you answer these 4 questions in yes or no please.

1. Should i be killed for the sins/work of others?

2. During war, should children be killed?

3. Do you support stoning of adulterers? (mind you adultery according to the bible is also looking at a woman with lust)

4. Do you think me as an unbeliever is wicked at heart?

Please don't deflect with out of topic answers. I want to see where 'gods' objective morality stems from.
 

Vdubs

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Can you answer these 4 questions in yes or no please.

1. Should i be killed for the sins/work of others?

2. During war, should children be killed?

3. Do you support stoning of adulterers? (mind you adultery according to the bible is also looking at a woman with lust)

4. Do you think me as an unbeliever is wicked at heart?

Please don't deflect with out of topic answers. I want to see where 'gods' objective morality stems from.

You think asking me will give you the answer?
1. Do you regard your future death as being killed for sin of others?
2. No. They should not, but I don't get off on wars either. I don't think young men should be killed for their country.
3. Not really. Archaic, out of date anyway, and not relevant to our times. Stoning is potentially lethal, and I am into keeping people alive, and I believe in forgiveness.
4. No. Not wicked, but you have succumbed to the detractors that have been around since Jesus walked on earth.
 

Total Power

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You think asking me will give you the answer?
1. Do you regard your future death as being killed for sin of others?
Natural death. God in the Bible killed children for the sin of their fatherr/family memebers. I assume you don't support this?
2. No. They should not, but I don't get off on wars either. I don't think young men should be killed for their country.
Thanks, you already have a better sense of morality than your God.

3. Not really. Archaic, out of date anyway, and not relevant to our times. Stoning is potentially lethal, and I am into keeping people alive, and I believe in forgiveness.
So barbaric practices hey? ironic your God with objective morality acted the same way the barbarians did 2,000 years ago.
4. No. Not wicked, but you have succumbed to the detractors that have been around since Jesus walked on earth.
It's called free-will and freedom of thought, which you claim your god allows however sends people to eternal damnation for it. How ironic you think you are a special bunch that 5.5 billion people going to hell for this? On the other hand as much as i hate religion i don't wish to torture or punish anyone for their beliefs. That makes me much better than your god already. Loving/Kind/Merciful, please!

You already disbelieve in the Bible, you just choose parts you choose to believe and fits your belief system.
 

Vdubs

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Christian verses are open to interpretations, in millions of different ways, Demographc facts on the other hand, aren't.

You clearly don't understand the system in scandnavian nations. In sweden you must register with the church if you have a passport, by law (repealed in 2014). My cousins son who was born in 2013 was registed with the church but my son who was born in 16, wasn't. My cousin will be counted as a luteran 'member' under national statistics. Same as denmark. In 2014 79.8% of danes were members of the evangelical lutheran state religion, Folkekirken, but only 2.4% say they attend weekly mass

One of the reasons why so many Swedes belong to the Church of Sweden is that up until 1991, nine years before the separation of church and state in Sweden, the church was in charge of keeping and maintaining the civil registry - which meant that if you were born and baptized here, you were automatically a member of the church. it's the exact same in Denmark and Finland too. Norway is different. They are flat out atheists.

I will grant that many of those non-Chrisitan swedes don't call themselves atheists as they hate 'tags' to their names, they say, they simply don't care about any fairy tales/gods or existence of paranormal. Etc. But they are NOT christians nor they are religious. I have no issues with spiritual people (Myself being one) however Xtians/Muslims, they are NOT.

See here



All Danish citizens automatically become members of the Church of Denmark when they are baptised and can withdraw by written application to their parish office or by joining another faith.


Most people don't bother to withdraw, like i am Registered with the Lutheran Church in Umea in Sweden, so technically, i am a Christian! I live in eastern europe now, i can't be bothered going to Umea, filing applications, filing petitions, then appearing in Umea in person! etc..why would i waste my time???

You should be more intelligent than blindly copy pasting stuff



You should research more before copy paste something, i am telling ya society here is atheist, all of them, very few exceptions.
You make a sweeping statement that took all of 5 seconds to render it inaccurate. Good on you for your followup explanation. I accept that you know a lot more about Scandinavian issues than i do, but I also work with a Swede , and several Danes, and we have some excellent discussions about this.
 

Total Power

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You make a sweeping statement that took all of 5 seconds to render it inaccurate. Good on you for your followup explanation. I accept that you know a lot more about Scandinavian issues than i do, but I also work with a Swede , and several Danes, and we have some excellent discussions about this.
So if you work with them you don't know about this? My wife calls herself a non-practicing Christian (she's swedish), yet i have never seen her pray, read the bible, attend mass, repent or anything. It's more like a fashion statement. Look up on the stats, sweden has about 5% praciticing Christian.
 

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