Religion Ask a Christian - Continued in Part 2

[Chief]

Continued in Part Two:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ask-a-christian-part-2.1295001/unread

 

[Roylion]

Well at least you know not a vampire.

What a nonsensical reply.

Who am I? I repeat.....a primate formed over eons through the process of evolution from earlier more primitive lifeforms.

 

[Total Power]

Try this “ think of something that has infinite power and love “
That is all . Don’t say hello.
Don’t tell me how you got on just keep it to yourself.

Glad you stopped rambling about the empty tomb after your own link proved you are wrong.

There no reason to prove you wrong, you prove yourself wrong and you have done it in a spectacularly awesome fashion in the last few pages.

So tell me BT, God is love, if you don't accept God you are an unbeliever. How are unbelievers treated in the Bible? Unconditional love should not be subject to conditions. Imagine if only, your God didn't curse us, none of it would have happened...and that hippy wouldn't have to die to on the cross.

But atleast, there was no empty tomb. Remember Jesus Seminar???

And if you are the sample your God has created to spread love, that explains everything that is wrong with your version of God.

Go back to catholic forums and websites and come back with a better strawman, son.

 

[Total Power]

And don’t ask how questions if you don’t want to know how . I could give you the theory till the cows come home( google ) but as you know the best way of learning is by doing.

The theory that you cannot love your own family unless you love God?

You really are a pleasant fella BT, your friends and family must be very lucky to have you.

 

[dusty1234!]

What problems ?

I mean if he is the creator of the whole universe….
Then all problems

 

[Boston tiger]

What a nonsensical reply.

Who am I? I repeat.....a primate formed over eons through the process of evolution from earlier more primitive lifeforms.

And your atoms that form your body are around 14 billion years old.
So really we are all 14 billion years old.
I’d like you all to ponder that. I feel atheist don’t ponder enough . Do you like to ponder Roy ?

 

[Evolved1]

And your atoms that form your body are around 14 billion years old.
So really we are all 14 billion years old.
I’d like you all to ponder that. I feel atheist don’t ponder enough . Do you like to ponder Roy ?

I'm pondering the incredible stupidity of your argument.

 

[Total Power]

And your atoms that form your body are around 14 billion years old.
So really we are all 14 billion years old.
I’d like you all to ponder that. I feel atheist don’t ponder enough . Do you like to ponder Roy ?

Do you ponder about that empty tomb and how you owned yourself with the Jesus seminar?

Geez, it takes a lot of balls to still stay in the thread, after that. Well done to you. Stupidity is not very unique in this thread, you have plenty of company. Specially that Xtian who suggest, Jesus started time as all calendars were reset.

 

[Total Power]

I'm pondering the incredible stupidity of your argument.

Where is his argument? he never argues about anything, takes potshots at people and shifts the goalpost when owned...and if nothing works, swear at people. Infinite love, he said.

 

[Evolved1]

Where is his argument? he never argues about anything, takes potshots at people and shifts the goalpost when owned...and if nothing works, swear at people. Infinite love, he said.

Imagine some nuffy kid trying to get into a pub or stip club because they claim to be 14 billion years old. BT would let them through.

 

[Evolved1]

Do you ponder about that empty tomb and how you owned yourself with the Jesus seminar?

Geez, it takes a lot of balls to still stay in the thread, after that. Well done to you. Stupidity is not very unique in this thread, you have plenty of company. Specially that Xtian who suggest, Jesus started time as all calendars were reset.

Who made that claim?

 

[less than zero]

I'm pondering Roylion's deep well of pondering and seemingly infinite patience with those whose ways are unpondered.

 

[Total Power]

Who made that claim?

Gnoi (sp?) some crazy hippy, who eventually got booted out of this thread for racist *** calling aboriginal people cultists and it took Christians and Christianity to 'civilise' them cause they were cannibals. It doesn't take long to show their true colours. Pretty sure BT believes along the same lines, except for him it might be the 'rest of the world'

 

[freo99]

I see.

Joseph Smith the founder of Mormonism and the Latter Day Saint movement experienced God.

"I at last came to the determination to ask of God, concluding that if he gave wisdom to them that lacked wisdom, and would give liberally and not upbraid, I might venture. So in accordance with this my determination to ask of God, I retired to the woods to make the attempt. It was on the morning of a beautiful clear day early in the spring of Eightteen hundred and twenty. It was the first time in my life that I had <made> such an attempt, for amidst all <my> anxieties I had never as yet made the attempt to pray vocally.

After I had retired into the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God, I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was <siezed> upon by some power which entirely overcame me and <had> such astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction. But exerting all my powers to call upon God to deliver me out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction, not to an imaginary ruin but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world who had such a marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being.

Just at this moment of great alarm I saw a pillar <of> light exactly over my head above the brightness of the sun, which descended gracefully gradually untill it fell upon me. It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two personages (whose brightness and glory defy all description) standing above me in the air. One of <them> spake unto me calling me by name and said (pointing to the other) “This is my beloved Son, Hear him.”

My object in going to enquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner therefore did I get possession of myself so as to be able to speak, than I asked the personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right, (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong) and which I should join. I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong, and the Personage who addressed me said that all their Creeds were an abomination in his sight, that those professors were all corrupt, that “they draw near to me to with their lips but their hearts are far from me, They teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of Godliness but they deny the power thereof.” He again forbade me to join with any of them and many other thing did he say unto me which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again I found myself lying on <my> back looking up into Heaven."
Later he wrote...

30 While I was thus in the act of calling upon God, I discovered a alight appearing in my room, which continued to increase until the room was lighter than at noonday, when immediately a bpersonage appeared at my bedside, standing in the air, for his feet did not touch the floor.

31 He had on a loose robe of most exquisite awhiteness. It was a whiteness beyond anything earthly I had ever seen; nor do I believe that any earthly thing could be made to appear so exceedingly white and brilliant. His hands were naked, and his arms also, a little above the wrist; so, also, were his feet naked, as were his legs, a little above the ankles. His head and neck were also bare. I could discover that he had no other clothing on but this robe, as it was open, so that I could see into his bosom.

32 Not only was his robe exceedingly white, but his whole person was glorious beyond description, and his countenance truly like lightning. The room was exceedingly light, but not so very bright as immediately around his person. When I first looked upon him, I was afraid; but the fear soon left me.

33 He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Moroni; that God had a work for me to do; and that my name should be had for good and evil among all nations, kindreds, and tongues, or that it should be both good and evil spoken of among all people.

34 He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;

35 Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted “seers” in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book.

36 After telling me these things, he commenced quoting the prophecies of the Old Testament. He first quoted part of the third chapter of Malachi; and he quoted also the fourth or last chapter of the same prophecy, though with a little variation from the way it reads in our Bibles. Instead of quoting the first verse as it reads in our books, he quoted it thus:

37 For behold, the day cometh that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly shall burn as stubble; for they that come shall burn them, saith the Lord of Hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

38 And again, he quoted the fifth verse thus: Behold, I will reveal unto you the Priesthood, by the hand of Elijah the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.

39 He also quoted the next verse differently: And he shall plant in the hearts of the children the promises made to the fathers, and the hearts of the children shall turn to their fathers. If it were not so, the whole earth would be utterly wasted at his coming.

40 In addition to these, he quoted the eleventh chapter of Isaiah, saying that it was about to be fulfilled. He quoted also the third chapter of Acts, twenty-second and twenty-third verses, precisely as they stand in our New Testament. He said that that prophet was Christ; but the day had not yet come when “they who would not hear his voice should be cut off from among the people,” but soon would come.

41 He also quoted the second chapter of Joel, from the twenty-eighth verse to the last. He also said that this was not yet fulfilled, but was soon to be. And he further stated that the fulness of the Gentiles was soon to come in. He quoted many other passages of scripture, and offered many explanations which cannot be mentioned here.

Do you accept the above testimonial as accurate and true?



How can "He" be known?

No I don’t accept Smiths testimony, even though I’ve known a few Mormons who are at least ingenuous.
I also don’t accept common descent as a form of evolution because it’s logically absurd.

You can try + be as clever as you like, but like I said the influence that Christ (a Hebrew rabbi from the backwaters of
the rear end of the world), cannot be measured.
Try reading “The Book That Made Your World” by Vishal Mangalwadi to try + get some idea.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I strongly disapprove of this meme.






But only because I don't think anyone should give money to Christians.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Contra Mundum - Does it?

When I teach this s**t I describe it as "cynicism to claims of truth" - "there is nothing outside the text" is taken out of context. The critique of science has been blown out of all proportion - it makes the point that value judgements are made by scientists all the time. Its really no different to cartesian dualism - "how can I trust my senses to give an accurate reading of the world in itself" - all experience is mediated by the senses.

The context of post modernism was you had one party saying that they embodied the will of the proletariat another saying it had a monopoly on understanding what was good for the Volk - the POMOS said "bullshit"

 

[Roylion]

No I don’t accept Smiths testimony....

Why don't you aceept it? He had eyewitnesses.

I also don’t accept common descent as a form of evolution because it’s logically absurd.

Why is it logically absurd?

Scientific evidence supports common descent very strongly

For example:

• Anatomical homologies - This refers to the parts of different species that look the same, even when the part performs different functions. For instance, when the skeletal composition of multiple mammals is examined, it is clear that each share many common features.
  
  
• DNA and RNA code - All life significantly shares the genetic code based on the molecule DNA and its related molecule RNA.
  
  
• Endogenous retroviral insertions - A retrovirus is a virus in the family Retroviridae. Different families of viruses carry their genetic information differently: DNA, double-stranded RNA, and single-stranded RNA are all possible. Retroviruses contain their information in RNA and use a protein called reverse transcriptase to transcribe their RNA into DNA upon entering the host cell, and then insert the DNA copy into the host genome.
  How this supports the idea of common descent could be best described by this analogy. Take two people and lock each person in a separate room with a dictionary. Give them instructions to randomly pick 100 entries from the dictionary and write them down. When they are done, compare the lists of words. The chances that any of those 100 words will match are obviously pretty low. The same applies to retroviruses when they choose a base in the genome to insert into. Therefore, when you see hundreds of thousands of retroviral insertions that are found at the same place in two different genomes you know that they had to be inherited from a common ancestor because there is no plausible way that many independent retroviral insertions would happen at the same base. Here's an example from our branch of the family tree of common descent. Put simply, each arrow represents a retroviral insertion.

• Pseudogenes - Pseudogenes are genes present in an organism's genome that have lost the ability to code for proteins due to mutation. Specific pseudogenes are often compared across species to elucidate complex evolutionary relationships. All pseudogenes are descended from a parent functioning gene. Once a functioning copy of a gene is detected, its sequence is compared to the pseudogene to trace descent. The more similar the sequence the closer the common ancestor.
  
  
• Embryology - Taxonomically diverse vertebrate embryos all converge to a very similar morphology. Humans, dogs, snakes, fish, monkeys, eels (and many more life forms) are all considered "chordates" because we belong to the phylum Chordata. One of the features of this phylum is that, as embryos (including humans and including you and I when we were embryos), all these life forms have gill slits, tails, and specific anatomical structures involving the spine. For humans (and other non-fish) the gill slits reform into the bones of the ear and jaw at a later stage in development. But, initially, all chordate embryos strongly resemble each other.

In fact, pig embryos are often dissected in biology classes because of how similar they look to human embryos. These common characteristics could only be possible if all members of the phylum Chordata descended from a common ancestor.

• Chromosome fusion This occurs across a wide variety of species in different ways. Fusion of chromosomes decreases the chromosome numbers in a descendant species. (Alternatively, a split in a chromosome increases the chromosome number.) The pattern of these fusion events generates characteristic phylogenetic trees offering proof of common descent. One famous example is a fusion event that indicates the evolution of Homo sapiens from a common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees. While all other great apes have 24 pairs of chromosomes, humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes. Human chromosome 2 looks almost identical to two of the chimpanzee's chromosomes stacked on one on top of the other, indicating chromosome fusion. Chromosomes form light and dark bands on a karyotype that can be compared to see how similar they are. The light and dark banding patterns of the two chimp chromosomes match that of the single human one.
  
  
• Convergence - This is the tree of life, a branching structure showing the theorized relationships between all of life, tracing back to the last universal common ancestor. The relationships of various extant and extinct species can be constructed using any evidence discussed above. After scientists employed genetics in tree construction the tree that was finally constructed from genetic information was astoundingly similar to that constructed from anatomical homologies. Different genetic tools such as DNA structure, chromosome structure, and endogenous retrovirus insertions can all be used independently to construct individual trees. While there may be slight changes or deviations between trees, whatever methods used still converges on strikingly similar relationships. This convergence is powerful evidence for the validity of common descent. Each method uses independent observations to produce results that only common descent predicts.
  
  
• Uniqueness - The complex, predictive patterns of similarities and differences in the world of life have have a unique known explanation — no one has even hypothesized an alternative account for the patterns exhibited — either there is common descent or there is something which is somehow simulating common descent.

You can try + be as clever as you like, but like I said the influence that Christ (a Hebrew rabbi from the backwaters of the rear end of the world), cannot be measured.

And what does this prove exactly?

Try reading “The Book That Made Your World” by Vishal Mangalwadi to try + get some idea.

The Bible has shaped western civilisation. So? I'm not suggesting it didn't.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Very thought-provoking article here by Tim Costello.

What do the Christians on here think of his point? Are too many people's Christianity more defined by their political allegiance than by their Christian beliefs?

If Scott Morrison acted on his strong Christian faith, he would phase out coal | Tim Costello

The Bible is not a policy document, but its vision of all flourishing, including creation, is unequivocally clear

www.theguardian.com

 

[Roylion]

And your atoms that form your body are around 14 billion years old. So really we are all 14 billion years old.

Yep. Jesus' atoms are around somewhere. His body was made up of over 200 bones, a few trillion microbes, and as many as 37 trillion cells. At the very least and assuming he was buried in some sort of coffin (unlikely) and not mummified (also unlikely) Jesus' bodily tissues will have long liquefied and disappeared, leaving little behind behind mummified skin and tendons. 80 years after his death, wherever his remains were deposited (likely somewhere in or around Jerusalem), his bones will have cracked as the soft collagen inside them deteriorated, leaving nothing but the brittle mineral frame behind. Twenty years after that, the last of his bones will have collapsed into dust leaving only the most durable part of his body - his teeth - behind. And of course according to the laws of thermodynamics, energy cannot be created or destroyed, only converted from one form to another, and the amount of free energy always increases. So Jesus' atoms are now disconnected from each other and have connected up with other atoms to make new molecules forming something else.

Every atom of Jesus' body is still here on Earth, just organized differently from what it was 2,000 odd years ago.

I’d like you all to ponder that. I feel atheist don’t ponder enough . Do you like to ponder Roy ?

Yep. I try to think about (something) carefully, especially before making a decision or reaching a conclusion. In doing that I try and deal with the available evidence in determining either.

 

[Boston tiger]

I'm pondering the incredible stupidity of your argument.

That atheists think like lemurs?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

That atheists think like lemurs?

So, another capitulation?

 

[Roylion]

That atheists think like lemurs?

Another nonsensical post.

Do you have anything of value to contribute?

 

[Boston tiger]

Yep. Jesus' atoms are around somewhere. His body was made up of over 200 bones, a few trillion microbes, and as many as 37 trillion cells. At the very least and assuming he was buried in some sort of coffin (unlikely) and not mummified (also unlikely) Jesus' bodily tissues will have long liquefied and disappeared, leaving little behind behind mummified skin and tendons. 80 years after his death, wherever his remains were deposited (likely somewhere in or around Jerusalem), his bones will have cracked as the soft collagen inside them deteriorated, leaving nothing but the brittle mineral frame behind. Twenty years after that, the last of his bones will have collapsed into dust leaving only the most durable part of his body - his teeth - behind. And of course according to the laws of thermodynamics, energy cannot be created or destroyed, only converted from one form to another, and the amount of free energy always increases. So Jesus' atoms are now disconnected from each other and have connected up with other atoms to make new molecules forming something else.

Every atom of Jesus' body is still here on Earth, just organized differently from what it was 2,000 odd years ago.



Yep. I try to think about (something) carefully, especially before making a decision or reaching a conclusion. In doing that I try and deal with the available evidence in determining either.

You want to talk about Jesus now?

 

[Boston tiger]

I strongly disapprove of this meme.



View attachment 1284912


But only because I don't think anyone should give money to Christians.

You want to talk about the Old Testament ?

 

[Roylion]

You want to talk about Jesus now?

I just did.

I've talked about Jesus plenty of times elsewhere too. Do a search.

 

[Roylion]

You want to talk about the Old Testament ?

I - and others - have talked about the Old Testament plenty of times. Do a search.

What would you like to know?