Religion Ask a Christian

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Total Power

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I should say as well, it is not just meditation, in the sense it is internalised. I do pray to God. I don't usually pray for "stuff", but I do pray for assistance and capability.

For example, in my current job I have to do a fair few presentations. I'm not a natural at this and I can get nervous beforehand, so I always have a quick prayer for help & courage. I find it helps me to calm, get perspective, focus, feel supported and most importantly, release my anxiety to another.

I get most will probably see this as a contrived delusion, but it just works.
Placebo can be powerful, i hope it works for you.
 

Opine

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All of our lives are finite at this stage of evolution, at some point in the future if we make it, humanlike folk won’t need an imaginary good place in the sky as they will have the opportunity to cheat death and become immortal, it’s inevitable with our advances, if the religious cult zealots grouping in government worldwide don’t fu** it up.
Yeh I did, ya got any, be there in 10!😀
I’ve often contemplated the possibility of human immortalisation via use of scientific technology. I’m no technological whizz but it seems logical that when, rather than if, it becomes possible to transfer all of a Being’s memories, including latent experiences, humanity will unquestionably transcend the finite. I’m not sure what that will mean for the purposes of a discussion such as that which this thread is concerned, so I best leave it at that . ;)
 

Markfs

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while i cant bring myself to understand how an ordinary bloke can be a god, I think some of the philosophies attributed to jesus are very positive and would have been a game changer in a jewish religion that was based on getting to heaven by not doing bad things. Ironically, much of today's christianity is focused on the ten commandments and the old testament, rather than loving others as they would like to be loved. American christianity has reinterpreted the religion as a self-help method for getting rich. The catholic church is more a real estate business than a source of love. So this becomes the double-whammy. Not only is the basis of the religion unbelievable, the end result is disappointing. And disappointing not just as a means to elevate the behaviour of humans, but christianity has promoted a disconnect with nature by putting humans over and above everything else except god. It means christians still think that god is going to provide a day of reckoning when in reality humanity's actions will be the spark that results in the end. Even now christianity seems to be a disinterested spectator in trying to save the planet....
 

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SBD Gonzalez

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Kidding, right?
It depends what you expect from prayer. I more take it as a quiet moment of calm contemplation and connection. I find it really works for me. I don't expect a direct one on one conversation with the almighty. Maybe one day.
I should say as well, it is not just meditation, in the sense it is internalised. I do pray to God. I don't usually pray for "stuff", but I do pray for assistance and capability.

For example, in my current job I have to do a fair few presentations. I'm not a natural at this and I can get nervous beforehand, so I always have a quick prayer for help & courage. I find it helps me to calm, get perspective, focus, feel supported and most importantly, release my anxiety to another.

I get most will probably see this as a contrived delusion, but it just works.
Thank you for your responses.

I've said it before on these pages, but it bears repeating - I have the utmost respect for people who simply say "I can't explain it, but it works for me". Where I go in hard is when people start trying to say there is no contradiction between the bible and science, or claiming that every word in the bible is true, etc...

But personal experience, with no claims to anything more, is always utterly valid.
 

travelli

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Thank you for your responses.

I've said it before on these pages, but it bears repeating - I have the utmost respect for people who simply say "I can't explain it, but it works for me". Where I go in hard is when people start trying to say there is no contradiction between the bible and science, or claiming that every word in the bible is true, etc...

But personal experience, with no claims to anything more, is always utterly valid.
Thanks SBD!
 

Markfs

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Just a few words in addition to my last post. I said that I admire much of the jesus philosophy and that much of christianity appears to ignore it. I ask myself why. I think it's pretty obvious. It's too hard. Loving enemies is too hard. Turning the other cheek is too hard. They are central to the jesus philosophy but they have been marginalised. Christians talk at length about the meaning of some obscure story in the old testament. Who cares if there was a flood? It means nothing. But do you love your enemies? Do you give assistance to immigrants? Do you help indigenous people with their lives? I could go on. There are so many things that christians could and should be doing if they really followed jesus. I have to admit that I'm a failure on so many fronts but I dont profess to be a christian. There are some christians in our society but their numbers are far lower than the most recent census would indicate. Jesus was supposedly a game changer and you expect that his followers would stand out as beacons of the supposed redemption that he brought.
 

SBD Gonzalez

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Kidding, right?
Just a few words in addition to my last post. I said that I admire much of the jesus philosophy and that much of christianity appears to ignore it. I ask myself why. I think it's pretty obvious. It's too hard. Loving enemies is too hard. Turning the other cheek is too hard. They are central to the jesus philosophy but they have been marginalised. Christians talk at length about the meaning of some obscure story in the old testament. Who cares if there was a flood? It means nothing. But do you love your enemies? Do you give assistance to immigrants? Do you help indigenous people with their lives? I could go on. There are so many things that christians could and should be doing if they really followed jesus. I have to admit that I'm a failure on so many fronts but I dont profess to be a christian. There are some christians in our society but their numbers are far lower than the most recent census would indicate. Jesus was supposedly a game changer and you expect that his followers would stand out as beacons of the supposed redemption that he brought.
Great post. All power to you!
 

carltonchelsea

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I’ve often contemplated the possibility of human immortalisation via use of scientific technology. I’m no technological whizz but it seems logical that when, rather than if, it becomes possible to transfer all of a Being’s memories, including latent experiences, humanity will unquestionably transcend the finite. I’m not sure what that will mean for the purposes of a discussion such as that which this thread is concerned, so I best leave it at that . ;)
In relation to an all knowing, all powerful infinite being?
I see, point taken.🤞😀
 

Markfs

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Great post. All power to you!
-

i say those things with no great joy and i'm not trying to win points against people who call themselves christians. The world would have been a far better place in the last 2000 years if Jesus had shifted people's behaviour..... so i look at those two aspects - what is the likelihood that god made himself human and what effect did he have - and just dont see any real evidence of a visit by a god 2000 years ago. The whole episode has been strangely underwhelming although I recognise that a few billion people call themselves christian. I see far more enthusiasm for power and money in this world.
 

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isn't the fundamental question whether a guy who might have lived 2000 years ago was the creator of the universe? Science could prove a flood or a series of plagues or some other biblical story, but it wouldnt prove to me that this bloke jesus was actually god. Please continue your discussions...
Or even Jesus.
 

Rosscoe

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Just a few words in addition to my last post. I said that I admire much of the jesus philosophy and that much of christianity appears to ignore it. I ask myself why. I think it's pretty obvious. It's too hard. Loving enemies is too hard. Turning the other cheek is too hard. They are central to the jesus philosophy but they have been marginalised. Christians talk at length about the meaning of some obscure story in the old testament. Who cares if there was a flood? It means nothing. But do you love your enemies? Do you give assistance to immigrants? Do you help indigenous people with their lives? I could go on. There are so many things that christians could and should be doing if they really followed jesus. I have to admit that I'm a failure on so many fronts but I dont profess to be a christian. There are some christians in our society but their numbers are far lower than the most recent census would indicate. Jesus was supposedly a game changer and you expect that his followers would stand out as beacons of the supposed redemption that he brought.
This and I am failure on many fronts too Mark.
 

Markfs

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Or even Jesus.
but there's been lots of discussions in this thread about this sort of stuff, but to me the fundamental thing is that god came to earth to re-establish the positive fundamentals that were supposedly lost in the past. Wouldn't this have a huge impact? Wouldnt his life had a huge impact? We can all use the Tim Rice words and argue that Jesus was lost in history because israel didnt have mass communication, but it seems awfully strange to me that god would come and go and not be recorded outside the bible. Wouldnt the Romans have investigated those amazing miracles more? But some might argue that god came at a particular time and a particular location to a particular people and all these things just clouded the fact that he was god because of all the other messiah stuff going on. Why would a god be so tricky?..

And then we look at the outcome after 2000 years and the fact that he supposedly suffered etc to make a drastic change in humanity and bring the good news and it seems that only a very small percentage of people actually listened....even though a couple of billion nominally call themselves christian, and most of them dont pass that test. Dont worry about the old testament, read the parables about the camel passing thru the eye of a needle. Read the response about what is the greatest commandment. People ignore these fundamentals and go trawling into irrelevant stories in the old testament to try to prove that god hates gay people or some other point that contradicts Jesus's main message. You could argue that christianity has had a positive impact in some areas over the 2000 years, but there's been a lot of negatives. The proof is there in the history books. Did god die on a cross for so little impact? All of it just doesnt add up.
 

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Markfs

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This and I am failure on many fronts too Mark.
I've heard this before. "We are christians and we fail" etc etc. I'm talking about "christians" not knowing that they fail because they are ignoring the fundamentals of the religion - loving other people.

I know about all the forgiveness stuff too and accept that jesus was strong on that aspect, but he also told people to sin no more - or try to do better. How can christians not give away their money to feed people who are starving or homeless?

It's interesting to me how selective christianity has ended up. Christians like the forgiveness thing so they incorporate it, but they dont like being poor or loving people that they dont like...so they ignore those aspects.
 

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Just a few words in addition to my last post. I said that I admire much of the jesus philosophy and that much of christianity appears to ignore it. I ask myself why. I think it's pretty obvious. It's too hard.
What a cop out. It's not too hard at all.

Jesus' philosophy is- "don't be a campaigner". In fact, I'm fairly sure that's exactly how he'd phrase it, if only he was around today.

I will argue very strongly that it is not actually hard at all to not be a campaigner.

Unfortunately, the many Churches that operate around the world who ostensibly teach Jesus' philosophy, and the people in charge of those churches, are in actual fact, a massive bunch of campaigners. They deliberately ignore Jesus' very simple teachings (love your neighbour) and focus on absolute trash instead (stop touching yourself, stop banging nice pretty women/handsome men, etc).

IMO.
 

Markfs

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What a cop out. It's not too hard at all.

Jesus' philosophy is- "don't be a campaigner". In fact, I'm fairly sure that's exactly how he'd phrase it, if only he was around today.

I will argue very strongly that it is not actually hard at all to not be a campaigner.

Unfortunately, the many Churches that operate around the world who ostensibly teach Jesus' philosophy, and the people in charge of those churches, are in actual fact, a massive bunch of campaigners. They deliberately ignore Jesus' very simple teachings (love your neighbour) and focus on absolute trash instead (stop touching yourself, stop banging nice pretty women/handsome men, etc).

IMO.
well you can blame the churches, but people are able to read these days and read about jesus in the gospels. When an american evangelist tells their flock that god wants them to be rich, it's easy to blame the evangelist....and i certainly dont think they are blameless. However, the ordinary people should be able to see that it flies in face of the jesus philosophy......do these ordinary people read what jesus said in the new testament and misunderstand it? Or do they choose to ignore it? I think many ignore it but either way, there's a problem. They're not practising christianity.....

i'm not sure what you mean by campaigner although I can guess....
 

Rosscoe

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I've heard this before. "We are christians and we fail" etc etc. I'm talking about "christians" not knowing that they fail because they are ignoring the fundamentals of the religion - loving other people.

I know about all the forgiveness stuff too and accept that jesus was strong on that aspect, but he also told people to sin no more - or try to do better. How can christians not give away their money to feed people who are starving or homeless?

It's interesting to me how selective christianity has ended up. Christians like the forgiveness thing so they incorporate it, but they dont like being poor or loving people that they dont like...so they ignore those aspects.
Matthew 7:22 Jesus makes it clear that his words must be put into practice. Loving your neighbour is what Jesus taught: he prayed for the people that put him on a cross while he was on it. It is glorious; and although I may never be able to be that perfect it is something I can practice, get better at and aspire to.

When Jesus was anointed in bethany in Matthew 26:6 it was an expensive perfume that the disciples thought was such a waste of money because it could have been sold and the money given to the poor. But Jesus said the poor you will always have with you but you will not always have me. While compassion and kindness is central to Christian belief; helping others help themselves in following Christ is more important. Judas went to betray him after this happened.

What you are saying is true. In Matthew 12:50 Jesus clearly states that whoever does the will of his father in heaven, is his brother and sister and mother. If you put into practice Jesus words then you will truly become family with him.
 

carltonchelsea

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Sounds like the natural evolution of a people's understanding of/relationship with the divine over many centuries. I love how the stories and struggles are depicted in the OT.
Can you please outline in some detail, what you mean by “the divine”, what is it, what characteristics does it display, etc,?
Cheers👍
 

Total Power

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Just a few words in addition to my last post. I said that I admire much of the jesus philosophy and that much of christianity appears to ignore it. I ask myself why. I think it's pretty obvious. It's too hard. Loving enemies is too hard. Turning the other cheek is too hard. They are central to the jesus philosophy but they have been marginalised. Christians talk at length about the meaning of some obscure story in the old testament. Who cares if there was a flood? It means nothing. But do you love your enemies? Do you give assistance to immigrants? Do you help indigenous people with their lives? I could go on. There are so many things that christians could and should be doing if they really followed jesus. I have to admit that I'm a failure on so many fronts but I dont profess to be a christian. There are some christians in our society but their numbers are far lower than the most recent census would indicate. Jesus was supposedly a game changer and you expect that his followers would stand out as beacons of the supposed redemption that he brought.
During Covid times here, Sikhs in the UK cooked and sheltered some of the most vulnerable people here. This happened in Australia too, we rarely hear about it but in Sikhism, serving people is serving God. If you walk into a Sikh Gurudwara, you can eat and sleep there for as long as you want to. I have known some wonderful people throughout my travels.

The quote love thy neigbour pre-dates Jesus, it's the way of the enlightened, unfortunately what we are left with is my religion is bigger than yours. They fail to see the core message though, it always ends with 'how I get salvation' , 'How I can get....'. Complete failure.
 

Number37

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During Covid times here, Sikhs in the UK cooked and sheltered some of the most vulnerable people here. This happened in Australia too, we rarely hear about it but in Sikhism, serving people is serving God. If you walk into a Sikh Gurudwara, you can eat and sleep there for as long as you want to. I have known some wonderful people throughout my travels.

The quote love thy neigbour pre-dates Jesus, it's the way of the enlightened, unfortunately what we are left with is my religion is bigger than yours. They fail to see the core message though, it always ends with 'how I get salvation' , 'How I can get....'. Complete failure.

Ever heard the saying bring a shovel to "large consensual" knife fight?
Only if you're Sikh.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09...with-affray-over-runcorn-mass-brawl/100467492

At a bail hearing for one of the men, 35-year-old Gurlal Singh, the Brisbane Magistrates Court heard two groups of men, made up of about 50, had allegedly met on the night for a "large consensual fight".

The court heard the men were all members of the Brisbane Sikh temple at Eight Miles Plains and the fight was allegedly between "two warring factions" within the community.

Police prosecutor Sergeant Wade Domagala told the court Gurlal Singh had allegedly participated in a "frenzied attack" against one man with a sword.

Court documents allege the group of men used multiple "makeshift weaponry", including clubs, swords, knives and a shovel.

The court documents also allege one man suffered a severed hand and needed surgery to save it from being amputated.
 

Total Power

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Ever heard the saying bring a shovel to "large consensual" knife fight?
Only if you're Sikh.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09...with-affray-over-runcorn-mass-brawl/100467492

At a bail hearing for one of the men, 35-year-old Gurlal Singh, the Brisbane Magistrates Court heard two groups of men, made up of about 50, had allegedly met on the night for a "large consensual fight".

The court heard the men were all members of the Brisbane Sikh temple at Eight Miles Plains and the fight was allegedly between "two warring factions" within the community.

Police prosecutor Sergeant Wade Domagala told the court Gurlal Singh had allegedly participated in a "frenzied attack" against one man with a sword.

Court documents allege the group of men used multiple "makeshift weaponry", including clubs, swords, knives and a shovel.

The court documents also allege one man suffered a severed hand and needed surgery to save it from being amputated.
I am well aware of that



The kirpan is a curved, single-edged sword or knife carried by Sikhs.[1][2] It is part of a religious commandment given by Guru Gobind Singh in 1699, in which he gave an option to the Sikhs, if they accepted they must wear the five articles of faith (the five Ks) at all times, the kirpan being one of five Ks.[3][4]

The Punjabi word kirpan has two roots: kirpa, meaning "mercy", "grace", "compassion" or "kindness"; and aanaa, meaning "honor", "grace" or "dignity".


Sikhs are expected to embody the qualities of a Sant Sipahi or "saint-soldier", showing no fear on the battlefield and treating defeated enemies humanely. The Bhagat further defines the qualities of a sant sipahi as one who is "truly brave...who fights for the deprived".[5]




Bastardised versions do exist, like it does everywhere else.
 

Number37

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I am well aware of that



The kirpan is a curved, single-edged sword or knife carried by Sikhs.[1][2] It is part of a religious commandment given by Guru Gobind Singh in 1699, in which he gave an option to the Sikhs, if they accepted they must wear the five articles of faith (the five Ks) at all times, the kirpan being one of five Ks.[3][4]

The Punjabi word kirpan has two roots: kirpa, meaning "mercy", "grace", "compassion" or "kindness"; and aanaa, meaning "honor", "grace" or "dignity".


Sikhs are expected to embody the qualities of a Sant Sipahi or "saint-soldier", showing no fear on the battlefield and treating defeated enemies humanely. The Bhagat further defines the qualities of a sant sipahi as one who is "truly brave...who fights for the deprived".[5]




Bastardised versions do exist, like it does everywhere else.
Nothing to do with a sword.
They organised a fight and took whatever they had. Golf clubs, baseball bats, poles....
Just your run of the mill power struggle in the local Sikh community.

I'm not making any judgements. I find it quite hilarious how they had a knife fight to settle who would be in charge of promoting the Sikh way in the community.
 

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