Religion Ask a Christian - Continued in Part 2
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Trinitatarians imagine 'god' by invention and then claim that invention as truth' and all other imaginings as false. I'm still not sure how after all these pages, exactly on what basis they can claim their invention as 'truth'.
When has there been a religion which didn't have a 'claim' on the 'truth'? How is it even surprising to see VD parrot these marketing lines without understanding how Trinity/OS came to be and then run with the marketing line 'it's the truth'?
It's no different to Islam. They are the same.
Vdubs
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It remains the only statement of faith that is accepted by ALL major parts of the Christian faith.
THAT IS OBVIOUS. Sorry we can’t be more “persuasive”, but that is not our role. Once you recognise your need, the seed is well and truly sown within you, and you can let us know you eventually did see the LIGHT.
I recall that Manning Clark saw the light near the end of his time and declared his faith.
You are arguing against yourself, i never denied Mormonism is not Mainstream Christianity, but it's still Christianity. The 'Major' parts of Christianity was defined by Constantine. It's such a shame that your religion comes from a Roman King under a context which was necessarily for survival and spreading of Christianity and not the Bible, hence i keep saying your version of Chrisitanity is Augustinian and Nicean.
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Without any evidence to back up that it is actually the truth? Yes I know.
Then there's no reason to accept your claims.
As Bertrand Russell said: “I do not pretend to be able to prove that there is no God. I equally cannot prove that Satan is a fiction. The Christian god may exist; so may the gods of Olympus, or of ancient Egypt, or of Babylon. But no one of these hypotheses is more probable than any other: they lie outside the region of even probable knowledge, and therefore there is no reason to consider any of them.”
I have seen the light already. The light that forces away the darkness of superstition and irrationality
How is a mythology copied from The Myth of Gilgamesh, mythed up by the Church and then Constantine and Augustine an obvious? If it was true you would not have borrowed concepts from other religions.
Here is a question for you, Why didn't Jesus write anything down? he was educated, he read the OT all the time and memorised it. Why would you depend on a fraud like Paul to spread the word of God? If he wanted to spread the authentic word of God he would have, but guess what? Jesus wasn't god, never claimed to be God till John, which was a forgery by the Church
You have done nothing but whitewash history. nothing has done more harm to the advancement of science than organized religions - and in modern times Christianity is the biggest culprit. For example, a couple years ago it was learned calculus had been discovered over a thousand years prior to Leibniz/Newton but the documents were ruined and written over by Christian writings.
The obvious thing is it's a cancer but we are slowly getting better as your religion is on a freefall.
- Jul 5, 2012
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Christianity invented Satan. Hardly surprising. You need a boogie man to sell your religion as an antidote against.
Funnily enough there are satanic rules as well, i will leave you to it, which one would you choose compared to the 10 commandments
NOTE: Do not harm little children.
Should have been echo chambers Christian thread, not ask a christian thread. The reason i am talking so much is guys like VD just doesn't know or care about theology/history or the origins. No matter what i ask it's always the same old marketing line or some ad-hom replies. I never actually get an answer, look at the last question i asked, why didn't Jesus (who was an omnipotent God) write anything down to avoid this kind of controversy knowing this will happen? Why would he rely on 3rd/4th hand accounts to spread his message across? fair question but i won't get a reply to that, except 'only way to god' and other head in sand stuff. If Jesus was the head of marketing of my company he will be fired. Just poor decisions all around.
I have asked many questions but the answer have always been the same. Either adhominems or the Christian standard push sales lines
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- Jan 12, 2011
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We converted him to Atheism, we are just working our way through you lot one at a time
But any who he started a hierarchical church to avoid any all that.
Dear Lord imagine if the original got eaten by a camel. But that’s right if there was a God he’d make sure a camel didn’t eat it.
If Jesus/God why not just pop down every gen so he can keep it current ? New Chapter for stem cell research . Explain abortion again . Maybe he does pop down . Are you Jesus TP?
There is some more solid arguments you can use down the track if you run out of “ Jesus wasn’t God because he didn’t do this
If Jesus was God why didn’t he write down the cure cancer while he was here ..
that’s a beauty .. use that one down the track TP .. it’s a winner .
If Jesus was head of your marketing?
How has Christianity gone since 37AD ???????????????!!!.
So your reply is adhoms and you managed to type 10 lines mocking me yet not address the question i asked?
You inability to answer questions is for everyone to see, join the queue and yeah sarcasm helps too.
Quite poor. From 37 till 300 AD it remained a small cult with less than 1% of the population believing in it. It wasn't until Nicea and the whole Trinity and Jesus was a miracle working son of God, the religion took off. Maybe you should read up a bit? -If it wasn't for the Roman empire and Constantine, what would have happened? The strike rate is worse than Mormonism i'm afraid who has 30 million followers in 150 years and that even competing with other major religions like Islam.
Missed the point there champ. What % of the original manuscripts remain you think? only 2% of Matthew remained, it was destroyed during the occupation of Jerusalem. Hardly the point i am trying to make. If God wanted us to follow his 'words' he would have found a better way than the Bible which is basically a work of literature than theology. Why is it so hard for you to understand? He is omnipotent, so if the camel ate it, make it appear again. Miracle remember? Spread your word! haha see how logic works , funny hey?
Words like love, peace, tolerance, affection, empathy are not subjective references, these are universal references to human rights. Your struggle with these words show (specially after i caught you out about infinite love last time) you are either trolling or you don't understand these words. I asked you time and time again, what happens to the unbelievers for an infinitely loving God? you have ducked this question cause you know the answer, but you have convinced yourself, it's infinite love. Shows you actually don't understand the word. You had a tough life i assume? Sorry if that's the case.
If .. you base everything on if.., If I was God ... If the Romans ...
If Jesus had written a book about how wonderful he was ....
As a great historian once said ... those that don’t understand their own world have no way of understanding the world of the ancients.
Your logic ... crap system so must have lots of divine intervention along the way .
Struggle town BT hey? You don't think the author talking about his methods is the BEST way of learning his message? but 4th hand accounts are proof of omnipotence? Odd. All scholars agree the Gospels in their present form in NOT authentic. So how does it compare with 'omnipotence'?
Hahaha ok, so he wanted someone to write letters proving he was real and his teachings were real, someone who he never met by appearing in his dreams? But couldn't write anything cause the camel might eat it or we don't understand his Godly ways? Ok so if the camel might eat it, make it appear again. He created the world and the universe surely he can make a few pages appear again. He wanted people to know him, learn his methods but he couldn't seem to do it, the best he could do was 3rd and 4th hand accounts and people who never met him? you seem to blame it on me, without seeing an omnipotent god failed in spreading his message. How is it not a failure? you had a 750 year headstart on Islam and Islam will surpass you in the next 20 years. PROOF is in the pudding BT. A book full of errors, lies, moral hazards and stone age mentality that is barbaric to any civilised human is godly?
Crap system, absolutely just like your crap explanation of infinite love. There are no 2 ways about it. Chrisitanity is just like Islam, obey and you will receive cookies, don't obey me and hell awaits you. What's the difference between these two? You are slaves to authority, you have admitted it yourself, family is secondary to you then you talk about 'own world'. In my world my family comes first, not my imaginary friends, maybe it's your upbringing? i don't know.
You asked a question how did Christianity go after 37 AD. I answered based on history, you obviously don't like history. Chrisitanity didn't take off for 200 years after Jesus. It wasn't until Nicea that people were convinced he was God and started following him.
I am very well aware of the world of ancients, are you? what do you think archetypes are? what do you think Adam and Eve are? what do you think David and Goalith are? Adam and eve is literal to people like VD and indo here. What do you think mythologies are? get back when you educate yourself.
You are everything that is wrong with Chrisitanity today. Don't question God's ways, even if it's crap and unacceptable and goes against everything we have learned as Humans from history. cause God by default is Good cause God said so. (Your version of Chrisitan God i mean)
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Vdubs
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You act as if your answers and questions are godly themselves- you have all the knowledge because of a bit of reading and walking away from God. Yet you have not actually experienced the healing power and love of God Himself, and until you do, you will be bitter and angry. You can not take away what God has done to those who believe,which is real and life- changing. Your inward navel-gazing attempts to find Nirvana are sad.
You get angry when we reply to you directly, your taunting deserves replies, and you say we make it about you, but that is what happens when you ask impossible to answer questions. We are not God, and we can not answer for Him, but we know the truth, it has set us free, and people like you are always going to ridicule and question.
History and research is NOT THE WAY TO FIND GOD.
Wait a minute! So you do not care if verses were put in there to convert people like the Great Commission? you don't care if Jesus never said it? ah speaks a lot about you and your faith than it does about the Bible, understandable, from a man who will believe at any cost.
Asking how stoning children is godly is impossible? asking how treating those who believe different to you with hell and contempt is impossible? Asking how stone age morality like not condemning murder, homophoabia or treating women like s**t is impossible? Do you live in 2021 or 700 AD? Asking how Trinity is central to Bible is impossible? Trinity was invented for fools like you to fall for Christ is God tagline, it's history. It's not in the Bible, if it was important Jesus would have said it. Talking about failed prophecies is impossible? how is any of these godly? research is important cause your church has made **** up on spot..but you don't think any of it is important cause you are brainwashed like Muslims.
Asking how 4th hand accounts of people who never met Jesus is more authnetic than eyewitness accounts is impossible? Christians have MADE s**t UP. Scholars agree, that Jospheus comments on Jesus was manipulated by Christians. So stating these things is impossible? yeah maybe impossible cause it casts doubt in your mind? You don't ask a murderer whether he has committed a murder, you know why right? Conflict of interest. Same reason why, we don't ask the Church a passage is valid or not, you need to research when and how those were added. The Church has a long history of manipulation but according to you researching those is useless cause take the Bible as true sacrificing reason and knowledge is what we need to do. Maybe to people like you but those of us who wish to know the truth, it's deeper than your thoughts and beliefs.
Healing power of God hahaha says the man from the first world countries as vast majority of Chrisitan nations suffer hahahaha. Plz m8. I have worked in Christian 3rd world countries for years. For every 'changed life' example you give me i can provide you 10 lives ruined due to faith. Are you going to accept those? if you don't believe me ,i can provide you with plenty of resources from 3rd parties too. There is no sky fairy, placebo is a powerful tool i agree, but it isn't the sky fairy, sad to break it to you.
One thing you got right, history and research is not the way to find god, you mortgage your brain for indoctrination, that's how you found your God. Glad we agree. You lack theological and historical depth to debate anything here, except peddle the same marketing lines. If you wish to debate theology, please reply to me, orelse pass
i am tired of dealing with your adhominems and abuse. Fools like you are not worth my time , you are clearly out of your depth and i have been patient with you for well over a year hoping you will learn a thing or two and maybe starting talking about actual scriptures and it's contexts than me and my life. I am also not here to talk about your personal anecdotes (i am presently on an Islamic forum dealing with it and i honestly wish i didn't get into this, for those who value reason and logic, this is an absolute nightmare to deal with), i am here to talk about Christianity and the Bible, apparently that's a bridge too far for people like you. Neither i am angry, nor i am pissed off...i am frustrated cause you won't talk about the Bible and the verses. (We all know why you won't but somehow you have convinced yourself it's the word of God).
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To sum VD up (as Bible states, don't use your own brain, you obedient slave).
What came first Christianity or the Bible ? Did Jesus give the Bible his blessing and give guidelines on how it was to be complied ? Did he tell anybody to write anything down ?
You are getting angry at a church document.
Here is a tip stop basing everything on “ If you were God . Or If there was a God he would have . It smacks of either complete ignorance of the Christian God or just plain desperation.
Think of a God that loves us and respects us. He could have made us puppets and but he loves us deeply and wants us to grow. Just a like a parent watching their children fail because they love that child. (Or know how to love that child ).
Paul came first, you owe everything to Paul. People believed in what Paul said and wrote, half of NT is about what Paul says. A person who never met Jesus. Yeah irrelevant right? A person who never met a bloke, wrote a whole book about that bloke. LoL But i can't question anything cause you know, faith etc.
You are happy with the documented systematic manipulation and foregery? They even changed Josephus' quote to suit their purpose, added Great commission for missionary and conversion reasons, in short added stuff that Jesus never said. Why do you think Jesus doesn't claim divinity in other Gospels outside of John? who do you think had the most influence on John? did it have a political purpose? i don't need to spoon feed you. The Bible is entirely a political book, rather than theology.
I offer no apologies for saying compassion, love tolerance, empathy, kindness is what i expect from a deity. You obviously don't agree, hence i think you are psychopath or just that you had poor upbringing. I asked you to provide an evidence if infinite love, you had 3 goes at it and eventually quoted a 16th century monk. You are fooling no one.
If your deity doesn't satisfy the above values why is he/she good? cause he tells you in your bible he is?
Are you ok? A parent doesn;t love a child conditionally. If they make mistake, they love even more, discipline them, but love more, teach them more. Don't throw them in eternal hell for torture. God's love is conditional, listen to me...orelse. I dare you to quote the verses to prove me wrong. Yeah he said love thy enemy, it doesn't apply to 'my enemy'. God's enemies according to the Bible are people who think differently. Worship other gods, or choose to believe or act differently.
As i said, read your Bible, i feel you haven't read your own book. You don't obviously know the meaning of love and compassion.
What you think about this verse? Hint: Same as Islam.
"People can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin."
Mark 3:28-29, Bible (NIV)
How can a sin be 'eternal' without a chance to redeem yourself? Or translation error, literal stuff? i am not reading right, autism maybe? LOL..
But love thy enemy...i never said my enemy lol just thy.
I think you are missing this ?
Jesus explained a lot and talked a lot to who ?
Who would have asked Jesus the most questions ?
Who do you think was in the know ?
Certainly not Paul, who wrote half of NT and half of what you swallow as 'authentic'.
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