Religion Ask a Christian - Continued in Part 2

[Chief]

Continued in Part Two:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ask-a-christian-part-2.1295001/unread

 

[Total Power]

And as I said, that is understandable, but people need to remember the actual evidence for that, is what it has always been: zero.

But you do not need to be rational all the time though, are we rational always? When Sagan was asked this question he said 'it depends on how you define God'. Einstein replied the same btw. I do know consciousness exists independent of the brain (yes i know you disagree and i am fine with it, and i am not here to debate or argue) and if string theory and Roger Penrose is right, it's not possible to know. I simply acknowledge there are things far beyond our understanding, but Christian God (or other Gods) is simply man made, it's clear and apparent.

 

[Boston tiger]

Yep. Because we've evolved to a sufficient level of consciousness as to be aware of our mortality, it fairly understandably leads us to think we're special, that there must be some higher purpose to our lives, such that when they end, there's gotta be something more.

Although understandable, there is no reason to think this. Most of us agree there's no life before birth so it's pretty sensible to assume there's no life after death.

Yes the atoms have banded together and want to know why and how ? We have to give credit to the universe ..it’s a thinker .

 

[Total Power]

Yes the atoms have banded together and want to know why and how ? We have to give credit to the universe ..it’s a thinker .

Try reading Penrose's CCC. You may actually learn a thing or two instead of peddling the tired old God of Gaps argument. Doesn't prove your Christian God anyway who got the creation story so very wrong regardless.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

But you do not need to be rational all the time though, are we rational always? When Sagan was asked this question he said 'it depends on how you define God'. Einstein replied the same btw. I do know consciousness exists independent of the brain (yes i know you disagree and i am fine with it, and i am not here to debate or argue) and if string theory and Roger Penrose is right, it's not possible to know. I simply acknowledge there are things far beyond our understanding, but Christian God (or other Gods) is simply man made, it's clear and apparent.

I believe we HAVE to be rational all the time. Otherwise there is no way all human thought is on the same page.

I’m not denying the possibility of other dimensions (for want of a better phrase); simply saying that we can only attempt to locate or comprehend them through our rational minds. Otherwise it’s open slather for any old horseschitte, and we’ve again elevated “belief” way beyond any point it deserves. (My whole theory on what is wrong with America is exactly this - increasingly in America, it doesn’t matter what ridiculous rubbish you believe. It only matters that you Believe. This is a very dangerous point to be at.)

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Yes the atoms have banded together and want to know why and how ? We have to give credit to the universe ..it’s a thinker .

Again you fall into the trap. The complexity of the universe is still way beyond our comprehension. So instead of simply accepting that reality as it currently stands, you automatically assign an entirely human construct as “thought” to what’s behind it.

 

[Total Power]

I believe we HAVE to be rational all the time. Otherwise there is no way all human thought is on the same page.

I’m not denying the possibility of other dimensions (for want of a better phrase); simply saying that we can only attempt to locate or comprehend them through our rational minds. Otherwise it’s open slather for any old horseschitte, and we’ve again elevated “belief” way beyond any point it deserves. (My whole theory on what is wrong with America is exactly this - increasingly in America, it doesn’t matter what ridiculous rubbish you believe. It only matters that you Believe. This is a very dangerous point to be at.)

We are emotional creatures, we aren't rational most of the time, it's cause the subconscious controls most of our activities. We make/take decision when we are angry, disgruntled, disgusted, saddened which will never be rational. A man who has nothing in his life, cannot be rational cause suffering is all he has seen. Is this the end of it all? to you maybe, not for him. For him rationality is justice.

Yes you are quite right, it's not possible to comprehend with our five senses, which is what i have said time and time again. Five senses = material world only. But's it's possible to test out the hypotheses of consciousness through meditation. There are Harvard experiments done in this field, while the experiences are subjective, the physical implications were stunning. Like a monk were able to lower their metabolism by 64% (it's not possible in real life unless in space) while controlling their body temperature in extreme climate. It's possible, and it's only been a few years since scientists have taken notice of this. It was pseudo science before that.

Anything i say to you will simply be a story, so i will refrain from stating that, but like a good scientist you can give it a go.

 

[Total Power]

Again you fall into the trap. The complexity of the universe is still way beyond our comprehension. So instead of simply accepting that reality as it currently stands, you automatically assign an entirely human construct as “thought” to what’s behind it.

BT jumps in from time to time, with 2 different things

1. Abuse
2. God of gaps argument.

But he is a grown up, i assume. and being a true Christian means love apparently. Can you feel the love in his posts?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

We are emotional creatures, we aren't rational most of the time, it's cause the subconscious controls most of our activities. We make/take decision when we are angry, disgruntled, disgusted, saddened which will never be rational. A man who has nothing in his life, cannot be rational cause suffering is all he has seen. Is this the end of it all? to you maybe, not for him. For him rationality is justice.

Yes you are quite right, it's not possible to comprehend with our five senses, which is what i have said time and time again. Five senses = material world only. But's it's possible to test out the hypotheses of consciousness through meditation. There are Harvard experiments done in this field, while the experiences are subjective, the physical implications were stunning. Like a monk were able to lower their metabolism by 64% (it's not possible in real life unless in space) while controlling their body temperature in extreme climate. It's possible, and it's only been a few years since scientists have taken notice of this. It was pseudo science before that.

Anything i say to you will simply be a story, so i will refrain from stating that, but like a good scientist you can give it a go.

Yes we are emotional creatures; many of us could well afford a deeper engagement with our emotional side (well, that’s what my wife tells me LOL) but I believe a fully emotionally-mature human being strives to identify and quarantine their emotional responses when it comes to really serious questions like the meaning of life.

If we don’t always defer to our rational side when considering the really important stuff, we’re putting out the welcome mat for every single huckster, phoney, and grifter (to use just three of the wonderful words American English has bestowed upon us) that’s out there.

 

[Total Power]

Yes we are emotional creatures; many of us could well afford a deeper engagement with our emotional side (well, that’s what my wife tells me LOL) but I believe a fully emotionally-mature human being strives to identify and quarantine their emotional responses when it comes to really serious questions like the meaning of life.

If we don’t always defer to our rational side when considering the really important stuff, we’re putting out the welcome mat for every single huckster, phoney, and grifter (to use just three of the wonderful words American English has bestowed upon us) that’s out there.

Objectively, all of that is true. But we don't live our lives "objectively", do we? That would be impossible. Giving life meaning, value and purpose is something we can do subjectively.

The meaning can only be subjective. The universe just is what it is. It doesn't have objective meaning. Subjective views is all we will ever have, to define objectivity, we got to know all about the universe which will never happen cause we are limited in our own ways.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Objectively, all of that is true. But we don't live our lives "objectively", do we? That would be impossible. Giving life meaning, value and purpose is something we can do subjectively.

The meaning can only be subjective. The universe just is what it is. It doesn't have objective meaning. Subjective views is all we will ever have, to define objectivity, we got to know all about the universe which will never happen cause we are limited in our own ways.

Yes I quite agree that full objectivity would only be achieved with complete knowledge of the universe but the only way to move forward is to at least strive for (and insist others strive for) maximum objectivity in all discussions of matters of life and death.

 

[Total Power]

Yes I quite agree that full objectivity would only be achieved with complete knowledge of the universe but the only way to move forward is to at least strive for (and insist others strive for) maximum objectivity in all discussions of matters of life and death.

Well i do not believe objectivity exists like the religious think it does. Apart from evolution which gifted us our moral guidelines (which is still not objective, subjective to our survival) what is objective? Name one thing that fits the human ideal/concept of perfection. The more you think about it, the more it doesn't make sense.

this relates to Plato’s theory of forms.For example: We can all picture the perfect chair in our heads, but craftsmen are always approaching perfection in their craft. The ideal chair only exists in our imagination.

So too is objectivity. Objectivity requires complete agnosticism to all points of view. What does that even mean to not have a point of view? Only objects can be objective— a banal and pointless conclusion.

Objectivism: It's a substantial concept in our minds but doesn't translate to reality.

 

[Vdubs]

You are one confused puppy. Paul frequently mentions Adam and Eve in his theology, strongly suggesting that he understood Adam and Eve were once real people. Jude makes reference to the writings of Enoch (as does the writer of Hebrews I believe). Many authors (including Paul) made reference to a literal Abraham. Jesus in Matthew states ' i am the God of Abraham'. Did he or did he not? Did Jesus refer to Adam as 'the man' and Eve as the 'woman' in Matthew? Yes he did, are you saying Jesus was clueless? yeah he was. Cause he didn't exist.

When Paul takes about Adam and Eve, Abraham, Moses, etc, he understands such people to be real people, not mythical allegorical literary creations to represent some humanistic story or whatnot.

Without Paul there is no NT. Paul is the first person to have mentioned and preached about Jesus.

Your concepts of Jesus AND Salvation (aka Original Sin) is pointless without Genesis, it doesn't dawn on you hey? There's no Christian doctrine without Genesis. Don't tell me you are that dumb you don't understand this?

Why is it that the sayings of Jesus and Buddha were the same? who came first? it's not plagurism, cause you said so? Why does the story of Moses appear in Sumerian mythology exactly the same way as it did in OT? God couldn't even say something ORIGINAL? why borrowed concepts?

It's only fruitless to a defeated man. You are one. I repeatedly said, i don't care about what you believe but my curiosity is about why you believe. The answer is quite simple, it's always 'it's true cause i said so'.

You really are clueless aren't you? you make a good parrot but you are embarrassing yourself here now. You don' even know what frauds like Paul and Jesus said...oh dear, not looking good for you , is it?

Whatever.
Genesis is there for all to read, and it is more than useful.
Then there are many other useful books.
Take them in the context of the big picture now that we have the promised redeemer Jesus, and the NT.

 

[Total Power]

Whatever.
Genesis is there for all to read, and it is more than useful.
Then there are many other useful books.
Take them in the context of the big picture now that we have the promised redeemer Jesus, and the NT.

You have NFI about Christianity. You are just a parrot. Where does the concept of sin come from? Genesis. Where does concept of salvation come from? Genesis. Where does concept of Salvation in Christ, come from? Genesis. Where does sacrificing oneself for our sinful nature come from? Genesis. If there's no original sin then there's no curse and then there's no sinful nature and then no one has to die for our sins. One of the basics tenets of Christianity.

You really need a good perspective on what you believe, when you lose an argument you revert to 'but but but Jesus said....'. Well the perspective of Jesus came from that fraud, Paul, who was heavily invested in the concept of concept of Adam and Eve.

Romans 5:

12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.



And do not forget, Jesus IS the god of Abrahamic, Jesus is Yehwah. He admitted it in Matthew.

 

[Number37]

You sound like Number37, before he lost his coherence.

First of all,

Do you know what an ad-hom is?
Do you know that ad-homs do not, in any way, represent a counter argument?

If you are having trouble with logic and reason then I would recommend Schick & Vaughn's "How to think about weird things".

Second,

Here's a picture specifically just for you to think about.
You'll notice that it is from the Australian War Memorial archives.
It was taken before you were born, but rest assured, it is real.
What you need to think about is this, Why is there a picture of a Mujahideen lookout, taken during the Afghan-Russian war, in the Australian War Memorial archives?
Here's a clue for you...
The Australian War Memorial combines a shrine, a world-class museum, and an extensive archive. The Memorial's purpose is to commemorate the sacrifice of those Australians who have died in war or on operational service and those who have served our nation in times of conflict. Its mission is leading remembrance and understanding of Australia’s wartime experience.





Thirdly,
"tangential reasoning" isn't a thing. I would go as far as to say tangential and reasoning are complete opposites.

Finally,
Your response should bear in mind that it was you that tagged me, so I assumed you were asking my opinion and if you don't like my opinion you can dispute it with another ad-hom or you could provide a counter argument. FWIW.... ad-homs are quick and easy, counter arguments not so much. Your choice.

 

[Gethelred]

First of all,

Do you know what an ad-hom is?
Do you know that ad-homs do not, in any way, represent a counter argument?

If you are having trouble with logic and reason then I would recommend Schick & Vaughn's "How to think about weird things".

Second,

Here's a picture specifically just for you to think about.
You'll notice that it is from the Australian War Memorial archives.
It was taken before you were born, but rest assured, it is real.
What you need to think about is this, Why is there a picture of a Mujahideen lookout, taken during the Afghan-Russian war, in the Australian War Memorial archives?
Here's a clue for you...
The Australian War Memorial combines a shrine, a world-class museum, and an extensive archive. The Memorial's purpose is to commemorate the sacrifice of those Australians who have died in war or on operational service and those who have served our nation in times of conflict. Its mission is leading remembrance and understanding of Australia’s wartime experience.


View attachment 1264545


Thirdly,
"tangential reasoning" isn't a thing. I would go as far as to say tangential and reasoning are complete opposites.

Finally,
Your response should bear in mind that it was you that tagged me, so I assumed you were asking my opinion and if you don't like my opinion you can dispute it with another ad-hom or you could provide a counter argument. FWIW.... ad-homs are quick and easy, counter arguments not so much. Your choice.

I tagged you because I do not believe in speaking to someone without them knowing. I think it is the coward's way, whether on this website or in my life.

You went completely off your rocker. I hope your time away has allowed you to rediscover your logic and your intellect, because you're a decent poster when you are consistent and considered.

 

[Vdubs]

You have NFI about Christianity. You are just a parrot. Where does the concept of sin come from? Genesis. Where does concept of salvation come from? Genesis. Where does concept of Salvation in Christ, come from? Genesis. Where does sacrificing oneself for our sinful nature come from? Genesis. If there's no original sin then there's no curse and then there's no sinful nature and then no one has to die for our sins. One of the basics tenets of Christianity.

You really need a good perspective on what you believe, when you lose an argument you revert to 'but but but Jesus said....'. Well the perspective of Jesus came from that fraud, Paul, who was heavily invested in the concept of concept of Adam and Eve.

Romans 5:

12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.



And do not forget, Jesus IS the god of Abrahamic, Jesus is Yehwah. He admitted it in Matthew.

I have every idea about CHRISTianity- I am a daily living and believing Christian, born - again as well. Just because I refuse to humour you when you dredge up futile negative arguments about everything and anything in the Bible, does not justify your derision. But I have come to accept that from you over time, and you just don't change. You poor bitter hard done by person- even if I came back in 2 years, you'd still be on your high- horse. Genesis is an awesome read. Thank you for educating those who have never studied the great book, and great that you continue to read the book- pity about your severe literary indigestion. You read it, but you get stuck.

 

[Number37]

I tagged you because I do not believe in speaking to someone without them knowing. I think it is the coward's way, whether on this website or in my life.

You went completely off your rocker. I hope your time away has allowed you to rediscover your logic and your intellect, because you're a decent poster when you are consistent and considered.

So you chose ad-hom.
You should perhaps think about your use of mental health slurs before providing advice to anyone about how they should post.

 

[Gethelred]

So you chose ad-hom.
You should perhaps think about your use of mental health slurs before providing advice to anyone about how they should post.

And you should consider not playing the victim when you have rampantly overreacted at length across multiple threads with borderline incoherence.

You went off your rocker. You lost your temper, and you lost your clarity. That is what I meant when I said off your rocker. You're free to interpret things how you wish, but the issue with calling it ad hominem is that I need to be attacking your person not your argument.

If you're not making an argument, you're yelling at everyone in range, and you're genuinely struggling to string a sentence together, 'off your rocker' is not ad hominem, it's accurate.

 

[Number37]

Yes we are emotional creatures; many of us could well afford a deeper engagement with our emotional side (well, that’s what my wife tells me LOL) but I believe a fully emotionally-mature human being strives to identify and quarantine their emotional responses when it comes to really serious questions like the meaning of life.

If we don’t always defer to our rational side when considering the really important stuff, we’re putting out the welcome mat for every single huckster, phoney, and grifter (to use just three of the wonderful words American English has bestowed upon us) that’s out there.

If you subscribe to Tabula Rasa then reason is subjective and therefore must include emotion.

 

[Number37]

And you should consider not playing the victim when you have rampantly overreacted at length across multiple threads with borderline incoherence.

You went off your rocker. You lost your temper, and you lost your clarity. That is what I meant when I said off your rocker. You're free to interpret things how you wish, but the issue with calling it ad hominem is that I need to be attacking your person not your argument.

If you're not making an argument, you're yelling at everyone in range, and you're genuinely struggling to string a sentence together, 'off your rocker' is not ad hominem, it's accurate.

According to you the only explanation is that I had a mental health breakdown.
Like that is some sort of counter argument. It isn't. It is an ad-hom.
You can continue to repeat it, over and over, it still remains an ad-hom because it does not, in any way, provide a counter argument.


Say it a hundred different ways, I lost my temper, I lost clarity bla-bla-bla, it's all the same nonsense, just your garden variety ad-hom.

Just because you don't agree with my argument doesn't mean that ad-homs miraculously become counter arguments.
Put aside all the hoo-haa the bottom line is that you don't agree with me. It's not the end of the world, the sky hasn't fallen in. Sometimes people disagree.
The more you persist with the adhoms the more it looks like you are projecting.

 

[Total Power]

I have every idea about CHRISTianity- I am a daily living and believing Christian, born - again as well. Just because I refuse to humour you when you dredge up futile negative arguments about everything and anything in the Bible, does not justify your derision. But I have come to accept that from you over time, and you just don't change. You poor bitter hard done by person- even if I came back in 2 years, you'd still be on your high- horse. Genesis is an awesome read. Thank you for educating those who have never studied the great book, and great that you continue to read the book- pity about your severe literary indigestion. You read it, but you get stuck.

You are a Christian cause you say you are? Ah yes i get it, you label yourself as a Christian and it's typical of your types that you don't understand your own Bible, which is where the source of frustration is. (It's not what you believe in, but it's the lack of honesty, integrity here in admitting that you simply don't know). I am theologically sound, i have demonstrated time and time again, i know my stuff, without reverting to name calling and insults.

I have seen no evidence that you know the Bible, you have continuously called me names without presenting theological defense of your belief system. As if Ad homs mean anything and it's not typical of you, what percentage of 2 billion Christians you think know Genesis is copied? 1%? 2? Just because others are ignorant it doesn't mean you should be too.

You claim Its not about Genesis and it's about Jesus and you keep talking about OS without realising there is no OS without Genesis. There is no curse and promise of salvation from our sinful nature without Gensis. If Gensis is not real why would the rest be real? are you saying Jesus didn't know Adam and Eve wasn't real? Or Paul for that matter?

You have no Christian belief system without Original Sin, the origin of which is Genesis. Yes i am bitter cause you don't know your own Bible for someone who calls himself Christian? How many times have i caught you out quoting the wrong verse from OT (Which was specifically for Israelis) claiming it was for Christians? Some honestly will be nice but that ain't coming from you.

Shame on you.

 

[Vdubs]

You are a Christian cause you say you are? Ah yes i get it, you label yourself as a Christian and it's typical of your types that you don't understand your own Bible, which is where the source of frustration is. (It's not what you believe in, but it's the lack of honesty, integrity here in admitting that you simply don't know). I am theologically sound, i have demonstrated time and time again, i know my stuff, without reverting to name calling and insults.

I have seen no evidence that you know the Bible, you have continuously called me names without presenting theological defense of your belief system. As if Ad homs mean anything and it's not typical of you, what percentage of 2 billion Christians you think know Genesis is copied? 1%? 2? Just because others are ignorant it doesn't mean you should be too.

You claim Its not about Genesis and it's about Jesus and you keep talking about OS without realising there is no OS without Genesis. There is no curse and promise of salvation from our sinful nature without Gensis. If Gensis is not real why would the rest be real? are you saying Jesus didn't know Adam and Eve wasn't real? for Paul for that matter?

You have no Christian belief system without Original Sin, the origin of which is Genesis. Yes i am bitter cause you don't know your own Bible for someone who calls himself Christian?

Shame on you.

Let it Be. I know the Bible extremely well.
Can you for instance tell me where you can find evidence of a significant reference to whole food plant based eating?
I am not here to indulge your games.
You can have your opinion, I am not here to prove to a keyboard warrior overseas that I know the great Book I read every single day.
Name calling and insults- that is your forte. NFI, ignorant, puppet, shameful, just some snippets directed at me in your last 2 posts.
Why the anger?
I am here to socialise with non-believers- I have many non Christian friends who never get aggrieved like you do.
But I am not here to assess your Bible IQ v mine.
That would be unfair- after all, I have had the shackles removed from my eyes and heart by belief in Christ.

 

[Total Power]

Let it Be. I know the Bible extremely well.

LOL! sure...you can start showing it for a change maybe? You are start with Genssis, so what you make of the Sumerian mythology? and the Flood myth? Did Jesus know it was copied? did Paul know? This is Ask a Christian, you don't seem to answer anything, outside of 'we have faith'. That's not really answering anything.

Can you for instance tell me where you can find evidence of a significant reference to whole food plant based eating?

Isiah 11 from memory, there are a few others i assume.

I am not here to indulge your games.

What games? now asking you own up to your own argument is now games? Simply say ' i don't know' and i won't ask anymore.

You can have your opinion, I am not here to prove to a keyboard warrior overseas that I know the great Book I read every single day.

Keyboard warrior? overseas? and how is it relevant where i live? i must be in Australia for you to have a debate? My point is valid, i am historically sound, you aren't. There are parallels between Sumerian myths and later ones…like the epic of Gilgamesh which is quite similar to the latter day Noah and his ark…but what does that prove ?…that old campfire tales travel well….every concept of christianity has had several proto concepts way before jebus appeared….

None of what is written in the NT is original. Your inability to debate this point proves my point.

Name calling and insults- that is your forte. NFI, ignorant, puppet, shameful, just some snippets directed at me in your last 2 posts.
Why the anger?

Arent you ignorant? tell me why you are not? I said Genssis is copied, you didn't care. It's a great read? why? it's copied, how can anything stolen from something else be 'great'? would you want your work to be stolen? Why are Jesus quotes stolen from Buddhism great? Theres no greatness in stealing stuff, just like there's no greatness in failed prophecies, terrible examples of morality and outdated moral principles.

I am here to socialise with non-believers- I have many non Christian friends who never get aggrieved like you do.

You have unbeliever Friends? cool! Despite what Jebus said about not having unbelievers as your friends? Great, you are already thinking for yourself.

I am here to educate you, not to change your beliefs. You can give it a try, all concepts of Christianity been borrowed from somewhere else.

Babylonian tablet shows how Noah's ark could have been constructed

British Museum expert says 3,700-year-old instructions describe how to build round boat – but he does not believe ark existed

www.theguardian.com

2 billion people living in ignorance is not an excuse not to learn and follow where the evidence leads you.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

If you subscribe to Tabula Rasa then reason is subjective and therefore must include emotion.

Yes, you're taking a similar line to TP. I get the inherent contradiction but maintain that we have no alternative but to always strive to start from a standpoint of the rational. Otherwise it's open slather for every demagogue and con merchant.

 

[Vdubs]

LOL! sure...you can start showing it for a change maybe? You are start with Genssis, so what you make of the Sumerian mythology? and the Flood myth? Did Jesus know it was copied? did Paul know? This is Ask a Christian, you don't seem to answer anything, outside of 'we have faith'. That's not really answering anything.


Isiah 11 from memory, there are a few others i assume.

What games? now asking you own up to your own argument is now games? Simply say ' i don't know' and i won't ask anymore.


Keyboard warrior? overseas? and how is it relevant where i live? i must be in Australia for you to have a debate? My point is valid, i am historically sound, you aren't. There are parallels between Sumerian myths and later ones…like the epic of Gilgamesh which is quite similar to the latter day Noah and his ark…but what does that prove ?…that old campfire tales travel well….every concept of christianity has had several proto concepts way before jebus appeared….

None of what is written in the NT is original. Your inability to debate this point proves my point.



Arent you ignorant? tell me why you are not? I said Genssis is copied, you didn't care. It's a great read? why? it's copied, how can anything stolen from something else be 'great'? would you want your work to be stolen? Why are Jesus quotes stolen from Buddhism great? Theres no greatness in stealing stuff, just like there's no greatness in failed prophecies, terrible examples of morality and outdated moral principles.


You have unbeliever Friends? cool! Despite what Jebus said about not having unbelievers as your friends? Great, you are already thinking for yourself.

I am here to educate you, not to change your beliefs. You can give it a try, all concepts of Christianity been borrowed from somewhere else.

Babylonian tablet shows how Noah's ark could have been constructed

British Museum expert says 3,700-year-old instructions describe how to build round boat – but he does not believe ark existed

www.theguardian.com

2 billion people living in ignorance is not an excuse not to learn and follow where the evidence leads you.

Thanks for your concern, but I have all the evidence of the REALITY of Jesus that I need for my lifetime. Not into conspiracy theories. Btw, Jesus specialised in sinners- that's who He came for- that is stated over and over. All sorts. Don't know what you've been getting into, but YOU HAVE COMPLETELY MISSED THE POINT of Jesus' ministry.