Assemblies of god

agitator

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#26
eagleskickass said:
religion and politics should be kept seperate...
FFP and CDP fo no good to the name of christianity IMO and should not be in the political arena. But hey, just my opinion.
religious parties have as much right to participate in the democratic process as anyone else........you dont have to vote for them.

in any case we already have a very extreme party of religious nutters controlling the labour party.......those greenie zealots.

is it just me or does anyone else get a shiver down their spine whenever backdoor bob tries to smile??
 

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Docker_Brat

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#27
agitator said:
religious parties have as much right to participate in the democratic process as anyone else........you dont have to vote for them.

in any case we already have a very extreme party of religious nutters controlling the labour party.......those greenie zealots.

is it just me or does anyone else get a shiver down their spine whenever backdoor bob tries to smile??
Yeah cut down the forests, dig up every last bit of oil. Doesn't matter, as long as the economy is good.
 

medusala

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#28
Docker_Brat said:
Yeah cut down the forests, dig up every last bit of oil. Doesn't matter, as long as the economy is good.
Why wouldnt we dig up every last drop of oil out of Bass Strait? Funny how the poor countries have far worse environmental records than the rich countries isnt it? There is overwhelming logic in that having a good economy will be more likely to result in a better environment. Doesnt quite correlate with your ideological straight jacket though does it? Fortunately 93% of the Australian population arent that stupid.
 
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#29
ZimZum said:
If, as it looks like it will, the Family First Party (run by Assemblies of god) get the last seat in the senate, will anyone else be worried about the direction this country will take in the next 4 years. I wasn't concerned about which party won government, but to have all new legislation going through any religious party, I believe is very wrong.

Thoughts?
No different than if the Greens, Democrats or independents have balance of power. It is a little annoying when a very small group or independent (eg Brian Harradine) who gets a handful of votes in a small state like Tassy, can pretty well dictate govt policy.
 

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#30
medusala said:
She was despised by all her parliamentary colleagues. Its very easy to try and blame Lees for the demise of the Democrats but they were doing far better under her after the GST was brought in they are now.
Bull********. They had a core level of support until 1998 of people who wanted a centrist party to vote for. They got substantial support in the 1998 election from disaffected left wingers and those lefties that prefer the major parties not to have the balance of power based upon their promise to oppose a GST in the Senate. The minute they voted for it, they lost a large part of their supporter base - those who were still ********ed off with Labor and wanted an alternative. That lot have gone to the Greens (or to a much lesser extent back to Labor). Their vote held up passably in 2001 as Lees was sidelined for her part in the GST debacle, but the subsequent infighting destroyed any hope they had of getting their party back on track.
 

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#31
RIPPER_46 said:
The big surprise was that it was one of Benny Hinnes Crusades. :shock:

It was a real eyeopener with people getting healed etc.

I got a hell fright when I was having a bit of a quiet nod when some dude behind me grabbed my shoulder and yelled "Praise the Lord!"

It wasn't my cup of tea but they all seemed to be happy and full of love and caring.
Have you seen those things on the TV (you have to be up v.early) - total bulldust anti-Christian-sentiment self-adolation Benny Fests. Fake healing, it is like a snake-oil salesman. It would really worry me if ANY federal pollie believed ANY of that stuff.
 

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#32
funkyfreo said:
Have you seen those things on the TV (you have to be up v.early) - total bulldust anti-Christian-sentiment self-adolation Benny Fests. Fake healing, it is like a snake-oil salesman. It would really worry me if ANY federal pollie believed ANY of that stuff.


Don't suppose this is the right place to start discussing that criminal. If there were a Benny Hinn thread I'd be putting in my two cents worth.
 

dan warna

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#33
I used to attend AOG as my old man in a BA, but my ma is a good old RC. I was raised RC but attended AOG, now an athiest.

The AOG would be fine fodder for the iggerant, but while they are a euphoric and enthusiastic bunch, they do preach a lot of rubbish doctrinally. AND THEY DON"T LIKE QUESTIONS (which I used to ask and used to get me into a lot of trouble, which they asked my dad if they wanted them to pray for me - basically for asking questions- dad stopped asking me to go with him :D !)

they ban dating or marrying unbelievers, they are strongly anti gay, anti divorce, critical of women who report abuse, as corrective punishment may be permisseable, anti birth control, if infertile, you are allowed to pray, but IVF is banned, birth control is banned, the mandatorily teach creationism and any other theory outside the bible is heresy, all forms of gambleing is evil (burn thats tatts ticket), women are subordinate to men, trancedental meditition is evil, but meditating on the word of God is fine, other forms of meditation are wrong.

Basically they are spreading ignorance, they start kids of early with pentacostal schools preaching ignorance, they then have their own primary and high schools where they continue to teach ignorance, and then they breed ignorant people.

trying to communication logically with some AOGers is like talking to a brick wall.

by example I can understand and appreciate why folks vote liberal, labor, democrat, national party, green etc, AOGers are often brainwashed drones.

There are a lot of people who attend AOG or pentacostal missions that superficially accept the religious aspects and enjoy the community spirit, while personally REJECTING the moronic aspects of their doctrine.

even within the revivalist/pentacostical churches, there are extreme nutters like jerry falwell, moderates, and fairly liberal interpretations of their policy and law (Ie. at Uni, i an UNBELIEVER and acknowledged athiest DATED (and we had a good and healthy time involving beer and parties and other healthy activities partaken by teens at uni) a pentacostal chick, although I later dated another pentacostal chick for about a two dates before I realised she was a complete fruitbat with a mind as closed as a steel trap and logic based on swiss cheese, and despite being quite attractive and having a bod to die for (which when you are 17 counts for a lot!), I couldn't stand talking to her...which she did a lot, mostly about church, and why I should go...

So as far as I am concerned the FF fruitbats, are a clever front for some bad policies. wait till they wangle 2 or 3 senators, given the growth of the pentacostal regime in Aus, and you'll see a dangerious change... Jerry Falwall and fork knuckles like him in power is a dangerious dangerous thing.
 

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#35
PoRtBoYzEz said:
I don't believe they are really all that harmful from what i've seen. They just have very strong christian and family values and at least they are honest in setting out their agender and desires for what they want to achieve in the senate.
Perhaps not dangerous in the ranting and raving sense but still dangerous.

It is a philosophy designed to take away all the tough to deal with issues of common life, boil them down to simplistic notions of good and evil and give blanket instructions to his adherents. It is entrenching naivety as a desirable way to live.

That is certainly dangerous, and particularly dangerous in politics were running a nation demands a whole lot more sophistication and subtlety than most born-agains are willing to live with.
 

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#36
Anyone who accepts creation-science as the truth can be deluded into believing anything. They confuse faith and fact. Reminds me of Life of Brian ' Yes.. we are all individuals ! ". All very WASPy.
 

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#37
Will be interesting to see what bribery and corruption tactics Howard comes up with to win over FFP support.

At least Harradine had a conscience and put National interest and morality first. The opposite occurred with that bag of sh1te Mal Colston.
 
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#38
Re: Seventh Day Adventists

timelord said:
OK thanks, Bomber. And BTW - all it took was for me to hear that the FFP were anti gays and lesbians, and I dumped them at the bottom of my green paper, and ahead of only the CDP and One Nation on the white.

LOL @ Dave!
I put them last on my ballot paper to I dont want a bunch of bible thumping ********ers telling ME how I shoud run my life and to suck up to the mythical jesus for "forgiveness!.
 
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#39
funkyfreo said:
Have you seen those things on the TV (you have to be up v.early) - total bulldust anti-Christian-sentiment self-adolation Benny Fests. Fake healing, it is like a snake-oil salesman. It would really worry me if ANY federal pollie believed ANY of that stuff.
Well the real bible bashers like Kevin Andrews and Abbott and their Christian cronies have prayer meetings at Parliament House in Canberra seeking "gods" guidence what a load of ****! Looks like the other prominent jesus freak/rootrat Ross Cameron might get the arse.
 

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#40
butterflykiss said:
Well the real bible bashers like Kevin Andrews and Abbott and their Christian cronies have prayer meetings at Parliament House in Canberra seeking "gods" guidence what a load of ****! Looks like the other prominent jesus freak/rootrat Ross Cameron might get the arse.
I must admit that I don't have a problem with Christians praying to God. Call me radical if you want.
 

MillerCHF

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#41
All this stuff about Family First is just media hysteria.

Personally, I'd much rather have Family First with some power in the Senate than I would a bunch of nutters like the Greens who want to legalise all illicit drugs, cut funding for private schools to 0 and somehow decrease the population of Australia while also letting in every refugee who wants to come here.

Family First are fine, they just want to instill some Judeo-Christian values in our system and there's nothing wrong with that as long as they understand the division between religion and state.

All this hysteria is sickening, we are slowly becoming like the USA where any possibility of Christian involvement in the political process is made out to be a bad thing.

For the record, the Christian Democrats do not believe in intervening in parliament. They have always supported state governments for decades, be they Liberal or ALP, except where proposed legislation has contradicted Christian values. I assume we can expect the same of Family First in the senate.
 

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#42
OldLion said:
Anyone who accepts creation-science as the truth can be deluded into believing anything. They confuse faith and fact. Reminds me of Life of Brian ' Yes.. we are all individuals ! ". All very WASPy.
Dont be trying to pass off those nutters as WASPS. They are by definition not protestant.
 

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#43
funkyfreo said:
I must admit that I don't have a problem with Christians praying to God. Call me radical if you want.




For example......... millions around the world prayed that the war should not take place in Iraq.
 

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#44
MillerCHF said:
Personally, I'd much rather have Family First with some power in the Senate than I would a bunch of nutters like the Greens who want to legalise all illicit drugs, cut funding for private schools to 0 and somehow decrease the population of Australia while also letting in every refugee who wants to come here.
.
Family First are certainly not a group that 90% of Australian Christians would identify with. I think that both Liberal and Labour represent maintream Christian views. That said, if there are enough fundamental christians out there then they should have every right to elect whoever they want if they can get the votes. Will certainly teach the Dems and Labor a thing or two about who they should direct their preferences to. I think FF should be given every chance to do what they do and we can see what happens. But I do hope it is made clear by mainstream Christians and Pollies that FF do not represent "families" (like we are not all families or something??), or mainstream society, but extreme Christians. They should not be ablt to speak as though they represent Christians, because that is simply not true.

I have a family and I think that we are best served by the greens, for example.

FYI: info on Greens poplulation policies. Just to show that Miller is grossly misrepresenting the Greens stand on this. Yes there are population reduction nutter out there but it is in no way mainstream Greens policy.

10. Population
The Australian Greens are committed to reducing the environmental impacts of Australia’s population in the understanding that the required changes are political, social, technological and economic as well as demographic. Neither the planet as a whole, nor any one country, can sustain unlimited growth in its human population. Ecological indicators alone show that we are presently living well beyond Australia’s sustainable means.

10.1.2 an Australian population policy must consider the geographical distribution of human settlements rather than just concentrate upon population size at the national level.

FYI here is the Greens drugs policy. Just to show that Miller is a sansationalism merchant, rather than a learned scholar on this issue.
http://www.greens.org.au/policies/society/drugssubstanceabuseandaddiction

On schools. Yes there will be a reduction in funds to private schools under Greens policy - but certainly not to zero other than the wealthiest of schools.
 

medusala

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#45
Numerous greens candidates have called for a reduction in the population and zero immigration. They are a bit like the Nazi party, what they really believe and what they actually put in their policy documents arent the same thing. Their extremism is barely hidden beneath the surface.
 

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#46
medusala said:
Numerous greens candidates have called for a reduction in the population and zero immigration. They are a bit like the Nazi party, what they really believe and what they actually put in their policy documents arent the same thing. Their extremism is barely hidden beneath the surface.
I certainly will not argue that it is not a hot issue in the greens, but IMO that sort of reduction of population argument belongs with Pauline's mob, if anywhere. A lot of greens candidates in the lower house can be a bit feral and totally off the planet, but it is a small party eh... look at the policy statement if you want the policy. There are libs who think differently than the party policy, just they are better trained to not blurt it out. I mean I only stated this because of the Family First comparison, and their candidates say lesbians are witches and should be burned at the stake!!!
You have to agree that the "population reduction" concept is more palatable for a balance of power party than "burning lesbians at the stake". :rolleyes:
 

medusala

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#47
funkyfreo said:
You have to agree that the "population reduction" concept is more palatable for a balance of power party than "burning lesbians at the stake". :rolleyes:
No I wouldnt, they are both disgraces. Make the senate quota higher so we dont have to put up with such muppetry. Funnily enough the economic policies of right wing lunatics like Hanson arent that far removed from the Greens ie govt subsidies, tariffs, keep Telstra, national ownership of certain assets, no GST etc.
 

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#48
medusala said:
No I wouldnt, they are both disgraces. Make the senate quota higher so we dont have to put up with such muppetry.
Quota = number of votes / divided by number of seats. So if there are 6 seats then 17% of the vote will be a quota. Unless you have a way of reinventing the laws of mathematics 17% will allways be the quota.
 

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#49
Weaver said:
Quota = number of votes / divided by number of seats. So if there are 6 seats then 17% of the vote will be a quota. Unless you have a way of reinventing the laws of mathematics 17% will allways be the quota.
Numbers of Seats plus one in fact.

The quota is 14.3%
 

medusala

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#50
Weaver said:
Quota = number of votes / divided by number of seats. So if there are 6 seats then 17% of the vote will be a quota. Unless you have a way of reinventing the laws of mathematics 17% will allways be the quota.
The quota is lower as pointed out by Dave W. However this will change if there is a double dissolution. You could lower the number of senators per state to give a higher quota.
 
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