Prediction Assistant Coaches 2019

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What is interesting from where I sit is how our new coaching additions salary be split, for example it looks like he will play a big role in the Carlton College and therefore does that mean a portion of his salary sits outside our soft cap? Me thinks yes and thus this very clever and astute appointment on a number of levels.

The other thing I found interesting (from a few posts above) was the seemly more mature coaching set up the lions go with from an age perspective. Whilst having people whom are recently out of the game has its advantages on a generational cohesiveness level I think that experience and life experience is hugely undervalued and it’s great to see the Lions and indeed AFL starting to come around to this way of thinking with appointments like Fagan and Noble. It’s common practice in overseas professional codes, but has only recently caught on here. And this is Possibly one of the reasons why Barker is retained, an older, more experienced and calmer head.
 
What is interesting from where I sit is how our new coaching additions salary be split, for example it looks like he will play a big role in the Carlton College and therefore does that mean a portion of his salary sits outside our soft cap? Me thinks yes and thus this very clever and astute appointment on a number of levels.

The other thing I found interesting (from a few posts above) was the seemly more mature coaching set up the lions go with from an age perspective. Whilst having people whom are recently out of the game has its advantages on a generational cohesiveness level I think that experience and life experience is hugely undervalued and it’s great to see the Lions and indeed AFL starting to come around to this way of thinking with appointments like Fagan and Noble. It’s common practice in overseas professional codes, but has only recently caught on here. And this is Possibly one of the reasons why Barker is retained, an older, more experienced and calmer head.

Solid post

The other interesting change is coaching appointments of people that have had no or minimal careers as players at the highest level. Creating continuity, cohesion, buy in comes in all forms
 
Solid post

The other interesting change is coaching appointments of people that have had no or minimal careers as players at the highest level. Creating continuity, cohesion, buy in comes in all forms

100%. Look at the best business leaders, they come from many different walks of life and it’s their traits, values, IQ and EQ that make them great vs any other set of designated experience.
 

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Agree Sickblue (and liked esp for use of whom. Under-rated).

My favourite non-AFL team is New Orleans Saints, coached by Sean Payton. His passion, creativity is still there after 14 yrs. New players, new assistants, but same head coach, and captain (Brees). I see Geelong, Hawthorn, Richmond going the same way. Once you have a smart, strong leader, build a franchise around them.

It's the opposite of what we've done in the past. I still mourne the loss/sabotaging of Ratts' apprenticeship he served with us. He was on the brink of getting through that and establishing himself as a bona fide coach. Ironically I also make the point how dumb we were to take him in the first place after 2yrs? with Melbourne as an assistant.

As for Baker, I agree, I'm seeing canny wage splitting. It's probably telling that his surname is Baker also because he'll have to be up very early to manage all those rolls!

(dad joke apology)

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk
 
Lions hey, you best get your facts right

Starcevich, Black, Keating are part of their AFLW set up

View attachment 1016207

These are the AFL coaches, tell me who has flag experience?

View attachment 1016208
Arrow I hope you are not making the point that our coaching set up reflects the track record that delivers success.
I bring your attention to an apparent "Brisbane" no name like Dan Daly. He had stints at Richmond, Collingwood an North
I can't connect that to a premiership year in his bio but he certainly has been close to organisations which were successful
I can't say the same from for Barker, Green and a few of others. It is about getting a good mix in the coaching group. Out Williams, Silvagni and Rocca and in Trino doesn't, for mine produce the right mix. The management of the club needs to fix these gaps now and not wait another year
 
Arrow I hope you are not making the point that our coaching set up reflects the track record that delivers success.
I bring your attention to an apparent "Brisbane" no name like Dan Daly. He had stints at Richmond, Collingwood an North
I can't connect that to a premiership year in his bio but he certainly has been close to organisations which were successful
I can't say the same from for Barker, Green and a few of others. It is about getting a good mix in the coaching group. Out Williams, Silvagni and Rocca and in Trino doesn't, for mine produce the right mix. The management of the club needs to fix these gaps now and not wait another year

Green? Do you mean Brad Green who hasn't been at the Club since 2015?
 
I think it's fair to criticise Barker for what appears to be underperformance as a line coach.

What I am not sold on is is criticism of his personality.

It's been stated by many that Barker is a happy-go-lucky character who isn't good enough to make it as a senior coach. Ergo he isn't good enough be to an assistant coach. Hmmmm.....

I've managed teams of staff (in a professional setting) for a number of years. And it takes all types to make a team tick. Some in my team are smart, ambitious go-getters. Some of whom stick around, some move onto bigger things, some have come gunning for my job. Others are more 9-5ers (well, 8-6ers), who punch in, do their job and go home.

The latter group gets a bad rap, but as long as they are punching out good work, I am more than happy to work with them on their terms. Some of my best staff haven't been world-beaters. Having staff that is simply competent, consistent and reliable is one of the dreams of a manager.

If I could choose a team from scratch and pick whatever I wanted, I wouldn't fill it solely with high-flying types. You can have too many gung-ho people (Alpha males in a sporting environment?) that want to change the world and climb as high as they can. You want some staff like that, but too many and I think there are too many expectations to balance, too much festering ambition to manage. It can lead to staff dissatisfaction, resentment and higher turnover. Ideally, I'd have half my team filled with high-flyers and half with steady types.

Is Barker the right man for the job? Maybe, maybe not. But is he the wrong personality type for the job? That's probably an unfair conclusion.

TL;DR - There is always room for Barker types in a team, even in a high-performance environment like a football club. IMO
 
What is interesting from where I sit is how our new coaching additions salary be split, for example it looks like he will play a big role in the Carlton College and therefore does that mean a portion of his salary sits outside our soft cap? Me thinks yes and thus this very clever and astute appointment on a number of levels.

The other thing I found interesting (from a few posts above) was the seemly more mature coaching set up the lions go with from an age perspective. Whilst having people whom are recently out of the game has its advantages on a generational cohesiveness level I think that experience and life experience is hugely undervalued and it’s great to see the Lions and indeed AFL starting to come around to this way of thinking with appointments like Fagan and Noble. It’s common practice in overseas professional codes, but has only recently caught on here. And this is Possibly one of the reasons why Barker is retained, an older, more experienced and calmer head.
Yeah your first point was exactly what I was thinking when I first read about the appointment, as you say it is a very smart move to work around the soft cap reduction in this way and shows that we are starting to think outside the box, same can be said about moving Kennedy to the rookie list, while not a new idea it is something we haven’t done in the past and shows a shift in mindset.
 
Arrow I hope you are not making the point that our coaching set up reflects the track record that delivers success.
I bring your attention to an apparent "Brisbane" no name like Dan Daly. He had stints at Richmond, Collingwood an North
I can't connect that to a premiership year in his bio but he certainly has been close to organisations which were successful
I can't say the same from for Barker, Green and a few of others. It is about getting a good mix in the coaching group. Out Williams, Silvagni and Rocca and in Trino doesn't, for mine produce the right mix. The management of the club needs to fix these gaps now and not wait another year

You can't lean on other clubs as proof like the Lions, then ignore our setup, Teague, Bruce, Barker all spent time at other clubs around flag years, just as Daly

The aura as you put it, around Clarkson, is now having no positive ladder position effect with average talent

While you think talent is 20% of the puzzle and 80% is other factors, it is actually the other way round

You will see that soon enough
 
I think it's fair to criticise Barker for what appears to be underperformance as a line coach.

What I am not sold on is is criticism of his personality.

It's been stated by many that Barker is a happy-go-lucky character who isn't good enough to make it as a senior coach. Ergo he isn't good enough be to an assistant coach. Hmmmm.....

I've managed teams of staff (in a professional setting) for a number of years. And it takes all types to make a team tick. Some in my team are smart, ambitious go-getters. Some of whom stick around, some move onto bigger things, some have come gunning for my job. Others are more 9-5ers (well, 8-6ers), who punch in, do their job and go home.

The latter group gets a bad rap, but as long as they are punching out good work, I am more than happy to work with them on their terms. Some of my best staff haven't been world-beaters. Having staff that is simply competent, consistent and reliable is one of the dreams of a manager.

If I could choose a team from scratch and pick whatever I wanted, I wouldn't fill it solely with high-flying types. You can have too many gung-ho people (Alpha males in a sporting environment?) that want to change the world and climb as high as they can. You want some staff like that, but too many and I think there are too many expectations to balance, too much festering ambition to manage. It can lead to staff dissatisfaction, resentment and higher turnover. Ideally, I'd have half my team filled with high-flyers and half with steady types.

Is Barker the right man for the job? Maybe, maybe not. But is he the wrong personality type for the job? That's probably an unfair conclusion.

TL;DR - There is always room for Barker types in a team, even in a high-performance environment like a football club. IMO
Having sat on a table at a coterie lunch with Barker while he was the acting coach, he a lot less happy go lucky than I expected and relatively intense.

Was very forthright with his view that we lacked self starters at the time, somewhat evidenced now by the fact we have about 6 players still on the list 5.5 years later.

Many people here are forming views with little to base it on, like he was mucking around kicking goals at one training.

Is he any good at his job? -I don't know, but he spoke more impressively than Pagan, Richardson, Harvey or Crossica at functions I have attended with Coaches.
 
You can't lean on other clubs as proof like the Lions, then ignore our setup, Teague, Bruce, Barker all spent time at other clubs around flag years, just as Daly

The aura as you put it, around Clarkson, is now having no positive ladder position effect with average talent

While you think talent is 20% of the puzzle and 80% is other factors, it is actually the other way round

You will see that soon enough

What I said was 80% of what we are missing is in mental application, leadership and the dynamic aspects of the game. The 20% was in the additional list refinements.- talent. The trade period has delivered on most of the 20%, hopefully coaching changes will deliver the 80%
 
What I said was 80% of what we are missing is in mental application, leadership and the dynamic aspects of the game. The 20% was in the additional list refinements.- talent. The trade period has delivered on most of the 20%, hopefully coaching changes will deliver the 80%

I know what you have stated previously, which I disagree with the theory

If we don't make a change to the coaching group and make finals/win a greater percentage of games, it will be more evident that success is based on 80% on talent, not other aspects
 
I know what you have stated previously, which I disagree with the theory

If we don't make a change to the coaching group and make finals/win a greater percentage of games, it will be more evident that success is based on 80% on talent, not other aspects

There have been 5 out of 18 premiership coaches since 1990 who did not play in a premiership: Joyce, Pagan, Roos, Williams & Beveridge. Pagan, Roos and Williams played in Grandfinals. These indicators are not the be all and all but I would go with the odds. Arrow you have about a 3 in 10 chance of being correct
 

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There have been 5 out of 18 premiership coaches since 1990 who did not play in a premiership: Joyce, Pagan, Roos, Williams & Beveridge. Pagan, Roos and Williams played in Grandfinals. These indicators are not the be all and all but I would go with the odds. Arrow you have about a 3 in 10 chance of being correct

Did you forget Clarkson?

You have zero chance of being correct, "closer to a spoon versus finals"

I will back my own judgement on where we are heading
 
Did you forget Clarkson?

You have zero chance of being correct, "closer to a spoon versus finals"

I will back my own judgement on where we are heading
That makes it 6 out of 18 coaches. 3 in 10. Think of how illogical you are that winning experience doesn't matter when you want to win a premiership. Pretty arrogant to believe your judgement takes precedence over 30 years of history.
 
That makes it 6 out of 18 coaches. 3 in 10. Think of how illogical you are that winning experience doesn't matter when you want to win a premiership. Pretty arrogant to believe your judgement takes precedence over 30 years of history.

No arrogance is making a statement and not relenting, when faced with inaccuracies

" we are closer to a spoon than finals" your words
 
No arrogance is making a statement and not relenting, when faced with inaccuracies

" we are closer to a spoon than finals" your words

Nice deflection Arrow, a common tactic of someone when they are losing an arguement - as I said we finished 11th which was closer to 18th than a premiership. 7 wins is a fact. You need to pay attention to stats, realities and history rather than be hypnotised by your own baseless perspective
 
Nice deflection Arrow, a common tactic of someone when they are losing an arguement - as I said we finished 11th which was closer to 18th than a premiership. 7 wins is a fact. You need to pay attention to stats, realities and history rather than be hypnotised by your own baseless perspective

No no Michael, your statement was this...


Finals Michael, no mention of a flag

More inaccuracies, to go with :

- Claiming the Lions had flag experience as coaches, when they are actually part of AFLW

- Couldn't bring yourself to acknowledge Fagan, so you bring up Daly, claiming he was either side of flags in his tenure, but ignoring 3 of our assistants having been in a similar situation

Ignoring Clackson, as a modern day 4 flag winning coach, who never had flag experience prior

Claiming success is 20% player talent, 80% other, but a coach with prior flag success will make all the difference, which has clearly been refuted, see Clackson

Lastly, that's your problem, you are still stuck suffering the last 20 odd years.

So, unless you have any new theories, I will happily sit with how I see our progress
 
No no Michael, your statement was this...


Finals Michael, no mention of a flag

More inaccuracies, to go with :

- Claiming the Lions had flag experience as coaches, when they are actually part of AFLW

- Couldn't bring yourself to acknowledge Fagan, so you bring up Daly, claiming he was either side of flags in his tenure, but ignoring 3 of our assistants having been in a similar situation

Ignoring Clackson, as a modern day 4 flag winning coach, who never had flag experience prior

Claiming success is 20% player talent, 80% other, but a coach with prior flag success will make all the difference, which has clearly been refuted, see Clackson

Lastly, that's your problem, you are still stuck suffering the last 20 odd years.

So, unless you have any new theories, I will happily sit with how I see our progress

Nice try at twisting an arguement. Fagan is 60 years old out of the Hawthorn System, under Clarkson and schooled in success These are facts 6 out of the last 18 premiership coaches played in one then you have Roos and Pagan and Williams who played in Grandfinals. Pagan trained by Barassi. Williams under Hafey. It may not be the be all and all but to the best of my knowledge Luke Power is the only person who knows what takes in our coaching group. Carlton need more from that background

As for my comment in the context of a game of football eat your heart out. We won 7 games last year and finished 11th and you act like everything will fall in to place.
 
Nice try at twisting an arguement. Fagan is 60 years old out of the Hawthorn System, under Clarkson and schooled in success These are facts 6 out of the last 18 premiership coaches played in one then you have Roos and Pagan and Williams who played in Grandfinals. Pagan trained by Barassi. Williams under Hafey. It may not be the be all and all but to the best of my knowledge Luke Power is the only person who knows what takes in our coaching group. Carlton need more from that background

Bruce was a development coach at Hawthorn in 2013.
He was promoted to Assistant Coach for 2014 & 15.
 

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