Assistant Coaches

[meima]

Trying to do this in a way to satisfy Allikats request.

Do we add a monster sized forward to the line up, because at the moment we are bombing from the midfield to the forward line and get repeatedly outmarked when doing so? Absolutely. Even if whoever that is, can't/doesn't/won't mark they will stand a chance of bringing the ball to ground.

I'd have thought it would have been pretty obvious to the coaches by now, but if you can't raise the bridge, lower the water - without a monster in the forward line, we need to stop bombing the ball there as it is not working with the players we have.

I agree, I really thought both the midfield (rock) coach and forward (hale) should discuss regarding tab inclusion too . If tucker going to spend 60% of game time , why not share it between Tab ,Kersten and cam Mac one could spend more time in interchange if the three tall don't work with tab rucking .

 

[kp junior]

Trying to do this in a way to satisfy Allikats request.

Do we add a monster sized forward to the line up, because at the moment we are bombing from the midfield to the forward line and get repeatedly outmarked when doing so? Absolutely. Even if whoever that is, can't/doesn't/won't mark they will stand a chance of bringing the ball to ground.

I'd have thought it would have been pretty obvious to the coaches by now, but if you can't raise the bridge, lower the water - without a monster in the forward line, we need to stop bombing the ball there as it is not working with the players we have.

Yep we need to play one of Taberner or Apeness, they're the only legit big forwards we have. McCarthy and Kersten are more mobile type forwards, and compliment the big gorilla type. Apeness is injured so Tabs it is for now.

 

[Bicco]

If you want youth you have to expect inconsistent games. The first quarter forward half had Logue ,Grey and Balic playing against experienced defenders. They are still learning blocking etc. Made it tough on McCarthy who is also young and inexperienced. You can't blame the forward coach for youngsters inexperience.

The OP is discussing the forward entries and the way we move the ball in. Not the players themselves.

 

[DannyTheDoorman]

If you all want to make threads about every individual person at the club, at least keep it on topic.

What about the poster Purple Wizard at 1.24pm today as per post above suggesting that Rock should stick to picking up girls and trying to pee on them. Is that an acceptable post ?

 

[Admiral Byng]

I don't know what the answer is or who is to blame, but it is frustrating to watch.

Watching our forward 50 entries some days it is like we are kicking the ball against a trampoline, hoping that if we kick it hard enough and often enough, it might just break through; but then constantly being caught off-guard and out of position when it bounces back just as quick.

Seems we are still relying on making the game-plan about tough contested ball. We don't do quick uncontested footy and we don't know how to defend against it. We rely on our forward defensive pressure to stop the quick rebound, but if we don't get that we concede a lot of ground very fast and end up chasing the footy backwards.

 

[salim malik]

The OP is discussing the forward entries and the way we move the ball in. Not the players themselves.

The OP is discussing the forward coaches involvement in the forward half. If the players aren't part of the coaches planning and whether they have the experience to carry out the plan who the hell is.

 

[SPEEDWAGON]

we are not going to be able to waltz forward lower eyes and hit players on the tit every time

the eagles brought excellent pressure for the first half and pressured our ball carriers into the long bomb

its notthe forwards fault, if they are outnumbered with mcgovern loose then - where is our spare? if at the contest we need to combine better with handball to releve pressure to allow a player under less or no pressure to pinpoint the kick





does anyone here acknowedge pressure on ball carrier and if not happy to dump long what do you want to do?

 

[DeanS]

In many different threads Apeness is mentioned as being someone who can add to our forward line and improve it. What am I missing here? I haven't seen any outstanding football from him at either WAFL or AFL level. And I'm not having a go at the big bloke because he has hardly had an opportunity due to injury. I am more having a go at posters who, I think, are clutching at straws at this stage.

Personally, I think Sunshine and Kersten are our best two forward options long term. Taberner has had too many chances and Apeness is an unknown quantity.

 

[blue shark]

In many different threads Apeness is mentioned as being someone who can add to our forward line and improve it. What am I missing here? I haven't seen any outstanding football from him at either WAFL or AFL level. And I'm not having a go at the big bloke because he has hardly had an opportunity due to injury. I am more having a go at posters who, I think, are clutching at straws at this stage.

Personally, I think Sunshine and Kersten are our best two forward options long term. Taberner has had too many chances and Apeness is an unknown quantity.

We have to find a way in keeping the ball inside our forward line, rather than getting smashed on the
rebound, intercept players having a field day.
At this stage either Tabs, or Collins are the only choices, they only need to bring the ball to ground, compete,
but we need our small.mediums to be able to rove, tackle, play the ground ball.
We are not loaded with great kicks, can pinpoint 30m passes, lower our eyes, so the only solution I can see
is like what Geelong do with Harry.

 

[theGav56]

In many different threads Apeness is mentioned as being someone who can add to our forward line and improve it. What am I missing here? I haven't seen any outstanding football from him at either WAFL or AFL level. And I'm not having a go at the big bloke because he has hardly had an opportunity due to injury. I am more having a go at posters who, I think, are clutching at straws at this stage.

Personally, I think Sunshine and Kersten are our best two forward options long term. Taberner has had too many chances and Apeness is an unknown quantity.

Apeness is mentioned because that is the role he is drafted to fulfil. He has barely played, and certainly not played enough to know if he can do that or not. But what he has shown is an aggressive, pack crashing attitude, and that is something we definitely lack. With his size he certainly looms as a potential target. A creator of chaos. A "when in doubt, kick it to the big guy" forward, who we can routinely expect to make a marking contest of it, and if he can't grab it, he can get it to ground. He can also make intercept markers a little nervous.

I am happy with both McCarthy and Kersten, but they will both be much better of they don't have the best defenders on them. I also don't think that McCarthy is ideal as the #1 target, but if he can play more in the mode of Mayne he would be lethal; mobile, with a defensive edge, but of course with a significantly more accurate kick. A hint of Clive even.

If McCarthy can do that, then we have room in our forward line for all three of those guys.

 

[theGav56]

We have to find a way in keeping the ball inside our forward line, rather than getting smashed on the
rebound, intercept players having a field day.
At this stage either Tabs, or Collins are the only choices, they only need to bring the ball to ground, compete,
but we need our small.mediums to be able to rove, tackle, play the ground ball.
We are not loaded with great kicks, can pinpoint 30m passes, lower our eyes, so the only solution I can see
is like what Geelong do with Harry.

Adding to my previous post, I think McCarthy and Kersten are the 20-40 metre pass forwards where we are looking for a mark, and Apeness is the 40+ metre pass guy where we are looking for a contest.

 

[Gussman]

All too often I see a kick into our 50 placed on the head of where the forward is, making it easy for defenders to spoil. If every team in the comp did this, then Dawson would have a brownlow by now.

They need something to lead at, and preferably a low kick onto the chest that will make it difficult to spoil.

 

[Lach72]

Adding to my previous post, I think McCarthy and Kersten are the 20-40 metre pass forwards where we are looking for a mark, and Apeness is the 40+ metre pass guy where we are looking for a contest.

Further to that we need to sort our forwards out.

Watching kennedy: what you see is one player leading.

Watch our guys.
4 forwards leading to the same spot.

Walters need to realise he's a small forward. you create space and then work off the talls, not lead to the same space as Kersten and McCarthy.
Drives me ****ing nuts

 

[salim malik]

Further to that we need to sort our forwards out.

Watching kennedy: what you see is one player leading.

Watch our guys.
4 forwards leading to the same spot.

Walters need to realise he's a small forward. you create space and then work off the talls, not lead to the same space as Kersten and McCarthy.
Drives me ******* nuts

The Adelaide forward half is perfect. 2 bigs , a 193 skilful roaming half forward, 2 great crumbers and a pinch hitting mobile ruck who helps out . Plus an open forward half because they move the ball in so quickly. Adelaide's set up is the best I can remember. Apeness, McCarthy, Kersten /Tabs, Bennell,Walters and ballas. Is that as good as we can get?

 

[Lach72]

The Adelaide forward half is perfect. 2 bigs , a 193 skilful roaming half forward, 2 great crumbers and a pinch hitting mobile ruck who helps out . Plus an open forward half because they move the ball in so quickly. Adelaide's set up is the best I can remember. Apeness, McCarthy, Kersten /Tabs, Bennell,Walters and ballas. Is that as good as we can get?

I think so

 

[salim malik]

I think so

Just no, there must be more.

 

[Lach72]

Just no, there must be more.

That's the best we CURRENTLY have

 

[salim malik]

That's the best we CURRENTLY have

Gotcha.

 

[FreoMonocle]

Further to that we need to sort our forwards out.

Walters need to realise he's a small forward. you create space and then work off the talls, not lead to the same space as Kersten and McCarthy.
Drives me ******* nuts

Both Walters and Ballas see the ball and go and contest wherever it is, they've done it for years and I don't want to count the times I've seen Ballas fail when he goes up for a mark against someone much bigger. This precedes Hale as an issue, but it's his problem now to resolve.

I love that it's great intent by the smalls, but I hate it as it is a team game and it's bad team play.

 

[Lach72]

Both Walters and Ballas see the ball and go and contest wherever it is, they've done it for years and I don't want to count the times I've seen Ballas fail when he goes up for a mark against someone much bigger. This precedes Hale as an issue, but it's his problem now to resolve.

I love that it's great intent by the smalls, but I hate it as it is a team game and it's bad team play.

I have no issues with them leading it creates space...and if they get left alone while the key gets doubled they can get easy ball

But they need to then wheel and get back for the crumbs.

Maybe it's a legacy of playing a forward line that is expected to come so far up the ground.
They're then charging back which then clogs space for our forwards.

i would've loved to see McGovern made accountable too, seeing him being able to go where ever he wanted just about made me spew

 

[yakamoto]

Whatever Taberner's perceived faults being outmarked is not one of them.He should play every game from now until at the very least Apeness is match fit and has a string of good WAFL performances behind him. If Alex P ever gets to play again he would be the most likely of the three to be a long term solution to the tall forward dilemma.

 

[DeanS]

Whatever Taberner's perceived faults being outmarked is not one of them.He should play every game from now until at the very least Apeness is match fit and has a string of good WAFL performances behind him. If Alex P ever gets to play again he would be the most likely of the three to be a long term solution to the tall forward dilemma.

Being outmarked isn't Tabs' problem. Holding marks is.

 

[FreoMonocle]

In many different threads Apeness is mentioned as being someone who can add to our forward line and improve it. What am I missing here? I haven't seen any outstanding football from him at either WAFL or AFL level. And I'm not having a go at the big bloke because he has hardly had an opportunity due to injury. I am more having a go at posters who, I think, are clutching at straws at this stage.

Personally, I think Sunshine and Kersten are our best two forward options long term. Taberner has had too many chances and Apeness is an unknown quantity.

It's a game of rock/scissors/paper(/spock) in ways.

A generalisation, but...
Ground work. A small forward is a fraction better at ground level than a tall (with a lower case t) like Kersten and McCarthy and a great deal better than a monster.
Aerial work. A small forward can successfully go against a small defender - can sometimes lauch against someone else to take a high mark. A small t tall can roam the paddock and get seperation and shouldn't be outmarked/spoiled on a good lead and some of them are good in pack marks and some are great at launching off the pack for a specky. Monsters typically are less mobile but if in the vicinity have the reach that usually see's them with first hand to the ball and the mass that means they are hard to move.
Body work. No need to elaborate much on this, size usually dictates who will be most successful, though players who are big shoulders and slim hips are easier to topple - such as Taberner (but a smaller defender will still struggle to move him) vs big lower bodies like Pav and Fyfe - but both of those find it hard against a monster who can have an extra 15-25kg on them. A small defender will struggle to move a tall and vice versa.

Neither Kersten or McCarthy are the #1 targets that you want, when you see no one clear on a lead and have to say a hail mary when you kick it forward - that is where a Monster such as Apeness is useful, it's a team game and a monster contributes to the structure. Both Cam and Kersten are alright at ground level, but both Walters/Ballas and Bennell excel at ground level, which is why they can also work in the midfield - further example of why it's a team game and not a few individual gods and the rest being mere mortals.

Maybe the mistake is that talls are all lumped into one bucket. 200cm/105kg monsters (Apeness) vs 192cm/90kg talls (McCarthy) are two completely different body sizes and the role that you would have either play is different as a consequence, regardless of their being "tall".

 

[Scham]

I have no issues with them leading it creates space...and if they get left alone while the key gets doubled they can get easy ball

But they need to then wheel and get back for the crumbs.

Maybe it's a legacy of playing a forward line that is expected to come so far up the ground.
They're then charging back which then clogs space for our forwards.

i would've loved to see McGovern made accountable too, seeing him being able to go where ever he wanted just about made me spew

You're asking too much of Son Son. If you want him to crumb he has to be at the contest and lose his man at the contest. If he leads away from McCarthy/Kerstin enough to take his opponent out of the contest, he too is out of it. If he leads just 15m or so from the talls, enough to wheel back for the crumbs as you put it, all his opponent is going to do is hang back off him slightly with an eye on the kicker and he can then participate in either contest whether it goes to Sonny or to the tall.

 

[FreoMonocle]

I have no issues with them leading it creates space...and if they get left alone while the key gets doubled they can get easy ball

But they need to then wheel and get back for the crumbs.

Absolutely, keep the leading, he is great at getting separation, marking and a dead eye at goal. But his (and Ballas) intent is usually to get the ball in their own right first, less of a mind to crumb.

Particularly in Q1, there were several instances of Kersten/Crozier and others all flying for the ball - the only people waiting goalside to hoover up the loose ball were Wiggles players, never one of us. At least one of Crozier or Walters to get a loose ball would have been nice, fair enough that Kersten had to stay in the contested area. So either we have recruited and all of our smalls have a natural chf game - or we just aren't coaching crumbing adequately.