Assisted Dying Laws

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its free real estate said:
There won't be any cures if you euthanise the market.

HIV was once a death sentence, now it isn't. Had euthanasia been an option when it first took hold, would we have the suite of anti retrovirals now?
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Euthanasia is a choice, are we arguing euthanasia or eugenics?
 

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Dry Rot said:
Then who should consent on the kid's behalf for them to be taken out?
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No one.

Do you have a problem with euthanasia generally, or just for little kids wanting to avoid dying a horrible drawn out death?
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Cystic fibrosis is not a 'horrible drawn out death' at age 11, has not been for nearly 50 years.
 
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Dry Rot said:
Examples?
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Plenty of examples of people in the US dying / committing suicide because they can't afford treatment.

In Australia, treatments making the PBS very much depends on their being a significant market for the treatment. Treatments for rare diseases often don't make it because the economic case isn't there. Not hard to see that a diminished economic case resulting due to euthanasia being a recommended option.
 
its free real estate said:
Plenty of examples of people in the US dying / committing suicide because they can't afford treatment.

In Australia, treatments making the PBS very much depends on their being a significant market for the treatment. Treatments for rare diseases often don't make it because the economic case isn't there. Not hard to see that a diminished economic case resulting due to euthanasia being a recommended option.
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So what should the patient do?
 
its free real estate said:
How much choice does an 11 year old have?

Or: what choice does a person with a grave illness have if they are priced out of the market for a cure or treatment?
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I don't agree with Belgium's euthanasia laws. I believe it should be only available to people over the age of 18. I don't believe an 11 year old fully understands or is able to grasp the full nature of their decisions, therefore it isn't a choice made by someone who is of full mental capacity.

Well nobody should be priced out of the market, thankfully in Australia this is a very rare occurrence.
 

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its free real estate said:
I am for euthanasia as a moral concept, but not a legal one. I think once you enter that territory, the path to emulating Belgium and the Netherlands is set.
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Fair call. As someone who is for legal euthanasia I have a line where I think euthanasia should become illegal, others want to go further while others are more conservative to myself.

So long as we can have productive, civil conversations around euthanasia we can try to eliminate some of the problems.
 
GreyWind said:
Fair call. As someone who is for legal euthanasia I have a line where I think euthanasia should become illegal, others want to go further while others are more conservative to myself.

So long as we can have productive, civil conversations around euthanasia we can try to eliminate some of the problems.
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Mate of mine is a lawyer, his old man a doctor and both of them support voluntary euthanasia. They differ on whether it's the judicial or the medical professionals that have the final oversight.
 
Gough said:
Mate of mine is a lawyer, his old man a doctor and both of them support voluntary euthanasia. They differ on whether it's the judicial or the medical professionals that have the final oversight.
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I think the Legals will win. They already have the final say on insanity. They are guided by the medical but they still make the final call
 
The patient and his/her nearest and dearest work collaboratively with the medical profession and allied health care professionals. The patient and those close to him/her being those at the centre and who have the primary roles. The role of the law is general oversight. Ensuring all the relevant provisions are followed, particularly matters relating to any possible duress.
 
Gough said:
I tend to see it as lawyers trying to insert themselves into a position of importance where perhaps their influence should be of lesser importance. We don't ask doctors for their opinions on law and the likelihood of a legal case having a positive outcome.
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Bingo!

Never trust a lawyer! ;)
 
GreyWind said:
Fair call. As someone who is for legal euthanasia I have a line where I think euthanasia should become illegal, others want to go further while others are more conservative to myself.

So long as we can have productive, civil conversations around euthanasia we can try to eliminate some of the problems.
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I look at it in an actuarial way - an 80 year old with an end of life disease, cancer or dementia, there's no point 'fighting' the disease, because how much life do they have left? Is the fight worth maybe five more years at best, of potentially more pain and suffering?

But as you get younger the fight has two important purposes, one, that you might get a lot more years of life if you win, but also that the treatments you get, whether they succeed or they don't, become part of the medical canon. Giving up at age 60 means you are giving up on the collective fight against the disease. Sure, the treatments might not work for you, but what is learned from them might help the next person who wants to live, and might accelerate the discovery of a cure.

It is no surprise to me that as the baby boomers, the most selfish and entitled generation in history, starts to face terminal decline, they overwhelmingly agitate for the easy way out.
 
Maybe you mix with a different crowd but no one I now wants an "easy way out". And there is no legislation anywhere in the world I'm aware of that facilitates an "easy was out. Everyone I know wants to fully embrace every breath they take.

All most of us want is to know that should we have the misfortune to have a condition that involves intolerable suffering and there is no effective and acceptable treatment the dying will not be a painful and protracted process.

We oppose those who seek to impose their values onto us - most are religious based and more often than not from Catholicism. As ethicist Dr Cannold wrote:

"It is unconscionable for someone to defend the right to follow his/her conscience, then deny the very same right to someone else"
 
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its free real estate said:
It is no surprise to me that as the baby boomers, the most selfish and entitled generation in history, starts to face terminal decline, they overwhelmingly agitate for the easy way out.
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Lol : I am of the other mind set. I am selfishly going to take that treatment bound for the 18 yr old and keep it for myself. 5 years , 1 year or 6 months. I am hanging onto life in any way I can
 
its free real estate said:
I look at it in an actuarial way - an 80 year old with an end of life disease, cancer or dementia, there's no point 'fighting' the disease, because how much life do they have left? Is the fight worth maybe five more years at best, of potentially more pain and suffering?

But as you get younger the fight has two important purposes, one, that you might get a lot more years of life if you win, but also that the treatments you get, whether they succeed or they don't, become part of the medical canon. Giving up at age 60 means you are giving up on the collective fight against the disease. Sure, the treatments might not work for you, but what is learned from them might help the next person who wants to live, and might accelerate the discovery of a cure.

It is no surprise to me that as the baby boomers, the most selfish and entitled generation in history, starts to face terminal decline, they overwhelmingly agitate for the easy way out.
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That's an interesting debate in regards to euthanasia and potential medical advances. One that I can agree has merit, it would be interesting to see the choices people make though if they had a choice between a potential treatment that may work or euthanasia. I hadn't thought about that aspect, so thank you for that. I also realise that was what you were saying the other day.

But I also think it does come down to the pain and suffering you mentioned earlier. Plus the hardship people face going from fit and healthy to being a shell of their former self and the mental toll that can take on people, not to mention family members.
 
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