Athletics faces new doping crisis after ‘biggest leak’ of test results

[Belnakor]

Yeah well I just assume that Bolt would have to be juicing, if you are dominating a drug infested sport you must be on it too.

incorrect. His stomach grew like that completely naturally.

 

[Belnakor]

yeah, they were talking about blood parameters no?

so lets go to the sprint events and field events, and can we have some longitudinal testing for the androgens and hormones and other metabolites in the urine.

I guarantee you a guy or gal boffin well versed in the testing sciences, could look at a sample of urine passed thru the mass spec gas chromatography and say "NOT NORMAL" or, normal enough. They could see if something is going on with the individuals physiology with an abnormal sample. But you can still dope as long as you maintain doping within thesholds, because the testing regime is set up in favour of preventing false positives, so they allow alot of ambiguously non-negative samples thru to the keeper.

Its the old 50%.

they have metrics just like that for all sorts of blood values.

As you know blackcat, once you know the metrics, you just need the same equipment as the testers, and you simply need to hit the levels just a tiny bit below (ie: suspicious but not definite).
Anyone who has suspicious levels was probably just trying to get an extra edge.

 

[FFC_RoyBoys]

Cannot remember which US coach said it or indeed the exact words, but as I remember the comment, it was along the lines of:

Drugs are not the difference between first and third, they are the difference between making the national team or not.

 

[Rob]

our aussie half marathon males haven't got within a bull's roar of winning it (barely in the top 20) which is interesting.

You looked it up too? Glad i'm not the only one that did that. Not too many men to pick from there either.

 

[the_interloper]

incorrect. His stomach grew like that completely naturally.

He got a HGH gut?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Yeah well I just assume that Bolt would have to be juicing, if you are dominating a drug infested sport you must be on it too.

Fair assumption but you got to know what drugs do what. Most novices and the media think steroids but thats only good for explosive events. As blackcat you need hormone parameter readings. Everyone has a crack at HGH and other hormones. EPO and other blood stuff is only good for endurance.

 

[Cylon7]

So much angst about Bronwyn Bishop's sins, yet no attempt by the governnment to regulate Australian sport. Why?

They're happy with shiny ASC paper policies.

Too expensive? Too unpopular? Too many people entangled in the mess that is sport?

 

[blackcat]

Fair assumption but you got to know what drugs do what. Most novices and the media think steroids but thats only good for explosive events. As blackcat you need hormone parameter readings. Everyone has a crack at HGH and other hormones. EPO and other blood stuff is only good for endurance.

Conte reckons you gotta taper atleast a month out, and even in some training, you get blocked, or a tight, and not the flexibility and explosiveness from all the other gym work and muscles still in that mode. You need the ballistic muscle responses, not the muscles still in the mode of the strength and power. He reckons you come off it a period out. Could be 6 weeks.

then you take the amphetamines and uppers come competition. You might take some epo even as a sprinter, cos the O2 is helping for your recovery. Even sprinters. We know the Marion Jones era sprinters, Conte had all of them on a little bit of EPO. the equivalent of St Kilda foreshore sea recovery

 

[blackcat]

So much angst about Bronwyn Bishop's sins, yet no attempt by the governnment to regulate Australian sport. Why?

They're happy with shiny ASC paper policies.

Too expensive? Too unpopular? Too many people entangled in the mess that is sport?

we dont need gov't in sport. sport is sport, dont have johnny howard fukcing up our sport or Brendan Nelson and Tony Abbott in khaki

 

[Belnakor]

You looked it up too? Glad i'm not the only one that did that. Not too many men to pick from there either.

some of them are very obscure athletes too (ie: never competed again or since) so if they are on EPO pretty expensive investment for not alot of outcome. I guess its possible.

 

[Cylon7]

we dont need gov't in sport. sport is sport, dont have johnny howard fukcing up our sport or Brendan Nelson and Tony Abbott in khaki

Think you do, but it isn't going to happen is it?

'Governance' according to govts is writing vague letters on fancy letterheads and avoiding truths.

It's all about protecting money and those who own it.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Are these the same types of blood test results that ASADA took from two AFL clubs that led them to believe they were on the right track in terms of catching cheats?


We all seem to be taking this seriously, but for some reason the AFL involvement was glossed over throughout this saga.

Not sure why.

 

[Rob]

some of them are very obscure athletes too (ie: never competed again or since) so if they are on EPO pretty expensive investment for not alot of outcome. I guess its possible.

I wouldn't say obscure - almost all of them are big names in this country (if you're a distance runner anyway). One of them has won our city to surf multiple times. Not that it makes you a millionaire, so your point is still valid.

How expensive is it anyway?

 

[Armchair Critic]

 

[Muggs]

WADA and the ASADA's of this world, need to take the anti-doping responsibilities away from sporting governing bodies, because they clearly can't be impartial or act with an ounce of integrity.

Part of the problem with this is in many cases the ASADAs of the world are the one and the same as local governing bodies. There is little separation between the anti-doping arm of the Goverment sports department and the athletitcs arm of the same department. If you got state sponsored doping is the state run anti doping arm in a position to act?

If the results are than never reported to WADA how can they then act?

 

[Armchair Critic]

Dopingnytt ‏@Dopingnytt 6m6 minutes ago

% of abnormal IAAF blood tests: 30 - Russia 28 - Ukraine 27 - Turkey 26 - Greece 24 - Morocco 22 - Bulgaria 20 - Bahrain 19 - Belarus

Dopingnytt ‏@Dopingnytt 5m5 minutes ago View translation

16 - Slovenia 13 - Romania 13 - Uganda 12 - Brazil 11 - Spain 11 - Kenya 11 - Holland 11 - Colombia 9 - Jamaica 8 - Portugal 8 - Slovakia

Dopingnytt ‏@Dopingnytt 3m3 minutes ago View translation

8 - Qatar 8 - Ethiopia 8 - Cuba 7 - Sweden 7 - Czech Republic 7 - Eritrea 7 - Bahamas 7 - South Korea 6 - Latvia 6 - Germany 6 - Belgium

Dopingnytt ‏@Dopingnytt 2m2 minutes ago

6 - Italy 6 - Mexico 5 - China 5 - USA 5 - Hungary 5 - Norway 5 - France 5 - Poland 5 - Japan 5 - Algeria 5 - India 4 - Lithuania


Dopingnytt ‏@Dopingnytt 44s45 seconds ago

4 - Estonia 4 - Switzerland 4 - Austria 4 - Finland 4 - Great Britain 4 - South Africa 3 - Australia 3 - Kazakhstan 3 - Trinidad & Tobago

Dopingnytt ‏@Dopingnytt 25s25 seconds ago

3 - Ireland 3 - Canada 3 - Serbia 2 - New Zealand

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...s-highly-suggestive-doping-trust-Beijing.html

 

[Belnakor]

I wouldn't say obscure - almost all of them are big names in this country (if you're a distance runner anyway). One of them has won our city to surf multiple times. Not that it makes you a millionaire, so your point is still valid.

How expensive is it anyway?

a couple of grand per course, all year round you are talking 20-30k iirc. Quite a bit for someone who doesn't do it for a dollar.

steroids way cheaper since the demand is higher and broader.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Who wants to bet the sanctimonious whinging from the Australian Olympics athletes towards essendon will suddenly immediately cease?

Aussie athletes (Sally Pearson aside) don't win track events though (especially long distance), so may actually be clean.

 

[Crankyhawk]

It includes worlds champs too I think but there are 2 Aussie males listed there, one for Half Marathon

Jai Taurima? Wasn't he silver in long jump at Sydney? Image was he was smoking/ fast food boy..

 

[Crankyhawk]

Dopingnytt ‏@Dopingnytt 6m6 minutes ago

% of abnormal IAAF blood tests: 30 - Russia 28 - Ukraine 27 - Turkey 26 - Greece 24 - Morocco 22 - Bulgaria 20 - Bahrain 19 - Belarus

Dopingnytt ‏@Dopingnytt 5m5 minutes ago View translation

16 - Slovenia 13 - Romania 13 - Uganda 12 - Brazil 11 - Spain 11 - Kenya 11 - Holland 11 - Colombia 9 - Jamaica 8 - Portugal 8 - Slovakia

Dopingnytt ‏@Dopingnytt 3m3 minutes ago View translation

8 - Qatar 8 - Ethiopia 8 - Cuba 7 - Sweden 7 - Czech Republic 7 - Eritrea 7 - Bahamas 7 - South Korea 6 - Latvia 6 - Germany 6 - Belgium

Dopingnytt ‏@Dopingnytt 2m2 minutes ago

6 - Italy 6 - Mexico 5 - China 5 - USA 5 - Hungary 5 - Norway 5 - France 5 - Poland 5 - Japan 5 - Algeria 5 - India 4 - Lithuania


Dopingnytt ‏@Dopingnytt 44s45 seconds ago

4 - Estonia 4 - Switzerland 4 - Austria 4 - Finland 4 - Great Britain 4 - South Africa 3 - Australia 3 - Kazakhstan 3 - Trinidad & Tobago

Dopingnytt ‏@Dopingnytt 25s25 seconds ago

3 - Ireland 3 - Canada 3 - Serbia 2 - New Zealand

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...s-highly-suggestive-doping-trust-Beijing.html

They aren't percentages but raw case numbers surely? Or is it 3% of all the Australian samples were abnormal?
I wonder what the threshold limits are set at (with most of the standard blood tests in medicine we get a range of normal values where 97% will be in and 3% will be outside)

 

[Muggs]

They aren't percentages but raw case numbers surely? Or is it 3% of all the Australian samples were abnormal?
I wonder what the threshold limits are set at (with most of the standard blood tests in medicine we get a range of normal values where 97% will be in and 3% will be outside)

I read it as % of blood tests, so 30% of tests of Russian athletes are sucpious, and as you stated 3% of Aussie ones.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Zero tolerance I would like to see the AFL do the same.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33755431

 

[Alfonz]

Cannot remember which US coach said it or indeed the exact words, but as I remember the comment, it was along the lines of:

Drugs are not the difference between first and third, they are the difference between making the national team or not.

I've got a friend who was borderline for the British Olympic team in 1500m, circa Athens/Beijing. He ultimately didn't make the cut. He says if he doped it would have been realistic to go from missing selection to making the semis, with a long shot of making the final if everything went right on race day. Pretty big difference and incentive to dope (especially if a touch quicker than my mate and it could take you to medal contention).

 

[Armchair Critic]

Jai Taurima? Wasn't he silver in long jump at Sydney? Image was he was smoking/ fast food boy..

TBH nobody would surprise me . He is an awesome bloke though ,worked with him for a while

 

[blackcat]

they all doped for Sydney. ALl the Australians. Just like the British for 2012.

This is why the success at home Olympics is so high. Do a statistical regression, it is not motivation and intestinal fortitude.
it is doping.

and yes, i know I argue that all who make olympic finals in the athletic disciplines like swimming, T&F, cycling, are on it, cos they are, and they are.

but when it is for home Olympics, it is just ramped up