Analysis Attacking ability

[Grockadoc]

Aaron Edwards, Williams, Darrou, King , Jackson, Orren, Helbig, O'Hanlon, Banfield are all gone, how many more do you want to flick.

For starters Newman and Foley. Club is just playing favourites in selecting them when we have others who can perform their roles to the same extent, perhaps better and are 10 years younger in McDonough and Arnott.

Grigg would have to be on pretty thin ice too, as would Morris.

I still think the worst thing we did with Morris was try to make him more attacking. It has messed up his gamestyle.

 

[Livonski]

Role players is just a cover up word for a battler or even better known as list cloggers

"Role player not a Galapogas Island turtle." TI, just last night on M White.

Matt White's a list clogger now too? According to you.

 

[TigerImposter]

"Role player not a Galapogas Island turtle." TI, just last night on M White.

Matt White's a list clogger now too? According to you.

Yes but Sir Ken has version of a role player is different to DH and we have too many of the one type. Being slow and poorly skilled when the heat is on
Good pickup Livonski it's good to see you're on the ball and you take deep interest in my posts

 

[_RT_]

So _RT_ how do we improve to catch the best sides with nothing coming in to improve us?

Same way we improved from 2010 until 2013, through old fashioned hard work. Just adding talent isn't going to do it. We saw that this year when we thought that simply adding some talent would get the job done. Remember in 2013 we were half a game off of the top 4 sides and we beat the 2 Grand Final sides for the second year running. You don't do that if you're a crap side. Yes this year was a poor year, not going to deny that, but I don't believe that we're that far off. People say we only beat Sydney in round 23 because they rested players, we only just lost to them in the middle of the season when they had everything to play for while we were sitting equal bottom and coming off some pretty poor form. Again you don't do that if you're a crap side, nor do you win 9 straight games.

Yes I know everyone says the 9 straight shouldn't hide what happened at the start of the season, and I doubt anyone at the club will allow that to happen, but at the same time the 9 straight shouldn't be overlooked with regards what we're capable of when we are up and running at our best. Think about this only Sydney had a longer winning streak than us this year with 12 wins. None of Hawthorn Geelong Fremantle Port or North who are all regarded by plenty on this board as being better than us were able to achieve 9 straight wins. Sure we beat some strugglers along the way, but so to did those sides when they went on winning streaks during the year, but they get talked up as being far superior to us.

 

[Tigerbob]

Sounds like hope more than planning mate.

 

[Calcium Man]

Finally Bob something we can agree on. Add midfield depth and leave Deledio and Martin to create havoc up forward. What I don't agree on though is the need for a small forward, IMO, with some tough Chocco love over summer, is the answer. 8 games 10 goals/15 total scoring shots and doesn't mind tackling, just a shame his head got big. Still there is something there to work with. Having a forward line built around Jack Griffiths Vickery Deledio Martin & Lloyd IMO can cause some real headaches.

With regards the back line, the idea of Lennon down back has some merit on the flank opposite Houli gives us some run and carry as well as great foot skills. Morris in the back pocket fully fit back to his shutdown best with Astbury Rance and Chaplin as the tall options really gives the back line a solid foundation.

That leaves the midfield. For mine a starting group of Maric Cotchin Miles Ellis Conca & Vlastuin, while not absolutely elite is hard and tough and should give us enough ball for that forward line to do damage, while also working hard enough to support the back line. Add in rotational players like Gordon Foley Grigg McDonough and the draftees and the makings for a decent side are there.

Lloyd has a long way to go to prove he is worthy of a spot as the small forward. He lacks the pace as well.

Why are we so obsessed with moving Deledio and Martin into full time forwards? We've got the ratio bang on right now. They can both influence the game as midfielders and forwards depending on what we need. Robbie Gray is a far more influential player as a midfielder forward then he ever was a forward, Bomber Thompson spent a season trying to turn Ablett Junior into more of a forward sure he kicked almost 50 goals but his best position is a mid who can get forward, it allows total influence over the game. Next year I hope for lids and Dusty to become 30+ goal kickers while still getting 25+ touches.

The best sides all have at least two game breaking small forwards as well as goal kicking mids. Hawks have Breust and Rioli (and Puopolo), Port have Wingard and now Neade, and Freo have Ballentine and Walters. Sydney have the most diverse forward line with Buddy and Goodes like smaller players in a way but still have McGlynn and sometimes Lloyd at their feet. The small forward is not dead and its not a position that can be filled by a midfielder. We need a genuine one with pace to cause havoc in our forward line.

 

[_RT_]

Sounds like hope more than planning mate.

Time will tell.

 

[TigerTime3]

Who cares about the individual merits of each role player, the point is we need a better ratio of A Grades / role players.

Even our A graders don't stand up like Port's do.

Martin, Cotchin, and to an extent Riewoldt were not as good as Gray, Wingard, and Boak.

Deledio the only one to efficiently stand up in the final.

 

[_RT_]

Lloyd has a long way to go to prove he is worthy of a spot as the small forward. He lacks the pace as well.

Well there is 200 days until round 1 plenty of time to earn that spot.

Why are we so obsessed with moving Deledio and Martin into full time forwards? We've got the ratio bang on right now. They can both influence the game as midfielders and forwards depending on what we need. Robbie Gray is a far more influential player as a midfielder forward then he ever was a forward, Bomber Thompson spent a season trying to turn Ablett Junior into more of a forward sure he kicked almost 50 goals but his best position is a mid who can get forward, it allows total influence over the game. Next year I hope for lids and Dusty to become 30+ goal kickers while still getting 25+ touches.

Because that is where they can do their most damage. I'm not saying we can't use them through the middle of the ground when needed, but if we can use them up forward more often in 2015 that will go a long way to solving the goal kicking issue, while also creating a fair amount of match up problems for the opposition. We should be dictating terms to them not having them dictate to us. It's what the likes of Hawthorn Sydney and even Port do to their opponents with their loaded forward lines. We tend to look at stacking our midfield/back line to counter these sides, about time we turned the tables on them and made their back lines worry about our forwards.

The best sides all have at least two game breaking small forwards as well as goal kicking mids. Hawks have Breust and Rioli (and Puopolo), Port have Wingard and now Neade, and Freo have Ballentine and Walters. Sydney have the most diverse forward line with Buddy and Goodes like smaller players in a way but still have McGlynn and sometimes Lloyd at their feet. The small forward is not dead and its not a position that can be filled by a midfielder. We need a genuine one with pace to cause havoc in our forward line.

We might address that speedy small forward issue over the next 2 months, but at the moment I can only make calls based on who is available on our list. For mine the best way to make our forward line more dangerous is to stack it with weapons that can do damage rather than having only Jack and the occasional appearance of Martin or Deledio or Cotchin to be genuine threats. You mention Hawthorns forward line look at the names Roughead Gunston Bruest Puopolo Hale & Rioli. As I said above they rely on having that ability to dictate to the opposition by loading up on talent in the F50. If we did the same with Riewoldt Vickery Griffiths Deledio Martin & Lloyd it's much more dangerous and less likely to see double teaming of Jack like it has in the past, because you won't get HBF/BP zoning off and leaving the likes of Martin and Deledio maybe even Lloyd on their own.

The better comparison is that Sydney one, Franklin Tippett Goodes & Reid is the foundation of their F50 with midfielders rotating through the other 2 position. With Jack Vickery Griffiths & Deledio we have a similar set up rotating Martin through for significant periods of time adds to the mix, same with Cotchin. Using someone like Lloyd or a small forward picked up through draft/trade adds another aspect to it, but the premise is the same. We spread the ability for the oppositions back line to dictate to us by making them having to account for a dangerous opponent, once that happens I feel our F50 will function much better than it has been recently, in fact we saw it happening in the second half of the year when we used the likes of Deledio and Martin forward with Jack and Griffiths/Vickery. Need to stick with that rather than move away from it.

 

[Livonski]

Yes but Sir Ken has version of a role player is different to DH and we have too many of the one type. Being slow and poorly skilled when the heat is on
Good pickup Livonski it's good to see you're on the ball and you take deep interest in my posts

It's an internet opinion forum where we debate the issues.

You debate me using role player to pump up White then backflip and contradict yourself. Of course I'll call you out on it.

 

[Calcium Man]

Well there is 200 days until round 1 plenty of time to earn that spot.

Indeed. But he needs to improve his pace

Because that is where they can do their most damage. I'm not saying we can't use them through the middle of the ground when needed, but if we can use them up forward more often in 2015 that will go a long way to solving the goal kicking issue, while also creating a fair amount of match up problems for the opposition. We should be dictating terms to them not having them dictate to us. It's what the likes of Hawthorn Sydney and even Port do to their opponents with their loaded forward lines. We tend to look at stacking our midfield/back line to counter these sides, about time we turned the tables on them and made their back lines worry about our forwards.

They do the most damage where they play right now. Both boys love having the ball in their hands, they play better when they get early ball and a lot of touches. Right now they are playing a lot forward but still influencing the midfield. As permeant forwards they become more one dimensional and easier to shut out of the game.

We might address that speedy small forward issue over the next 2 months, but at the moment I can only make calls based on who is available on our list. For mine the best way to make our forward line more dangerous is to stack it with weapons that can do damage rather than having only Jack and the occasional appearance of Martin or Deledio or Cotchin to be genuine threats. You mention Hawthorns forward line look at the names Roughead Gunston Bruest Puopolo Hale & Rioli. As I said above they rely on having that ability to dictate to the opposition by loading up on talent in the F50. If we did the same with Riewoldt Vickery Griffiths Deledio Martin & Lloyd it's much more dangerous and less likely to see double teaming of Jack like it has in the past, because you won't get HBF/BP zoning off and leaving the likes of Martin and Deledio maybe even Lloyd on their own.

Yes but those Hawks players mentioned are all very talented forwards, not mids who can go forward but forwards that can pinch hit in the midfield. We are already effectively lining up something similar to that but without Vickery and Lloyd but instead Gordon and another small in there. It might change with Vickery but its still not a team that scores heavily enough.

The biggest difference from your line up to mine though is Garlett instead of Lloyd. Garlett is a 30+ goal guaranteed forward, he has a lot of pace that makes defenders rush their possession and more likely to make a mistake. How often do we bomb the ball to the top of the square only to watch defenders sweep up the ball and run it out the other way? Too much IMO because the guys down their are not great crumbers or great at applying defensive pressure. This goes for Martin especially but also Lids to an extent.

Lids and Martin do not lay enough tackles between them either, about 5 a game. Most of the small forwards we previously mentioned are up around 4 (Ballentine i think is the only exception at 2.7). I think it could be a bit to do with the fact both are more straight line runners the forward line is the most congested place on the field, you need great agility to get to the ball or player with the ball. I think its pretty obvious Edwards is our best defensive pressure forward because he is so nimble and can slip past bodies to get to the ball or player. If we are going to play 3 tall forwards. which I'm a big fan of, we need a very quick nimble guy at their feet making life very difficult for defenders when the ball hits the ground. Lloyd for mine has a long way to go before he is that player and at 24 doesn't have the time to work it out.

The better comparison is that Sydney one, Franklin Tippett Goodes & Reid is the foundation of their F50 with midfielders rotating through the other 2 position. With Jack Vickery Griffiths & Deledio we have a similar set up rotating Martin through for significant periods of time adds to the mix, same with Cotchin. Using someone like Lloyd or a small forward picked up through draft/trade adds another aspect to it, but the premise is the same. We spread the ability for the oppositions back line to dictate to us by making them having to account for a dangerous opponent, once that happens I feel our F50 will function much better than it has been recently, in fact we saw it happening in the second half of the year when we used the likes of Deledio and Martin forward with Jack and Griffiths/Vickery. Need to stick with that rather than move away from it.

Once again minus Vickery/Griffiths we have been playing this line up for 10-12 weeks. It works okay but we still struggle to get over 100 points despite for the majority of that time dominating clearances and contested possession. But still comes back to what i said above. I'm not actually sure where arguing very different points that we need to diversify our forward set up, more how much time Lids and Martin play up there and i think its perfect right now. Its more about getting a player with pace who can play forward and IMO Garlett is not only the best one on the market in AFL terms he is high quality.

Longer term i would actually prefer McDonough playing a similar role to Lids/Gordon as i think he is the cleverest kick into the forward line, its also why i want Ahern if we don't trade our first. Lids can be very good but also has a habit of bombing to the top of the square, which is also our KPF's fault as all three are better on the lead but don't do it enough. Jack is also a brilliant kick into the forward 50, with Ty and Griff he will need to adapt his game style to be more like Gunstan and setting up goals from HF then out of the square.

Over summer we need to either turn Lloyd into that brilliant FP and work on his pace as much as possible or find a plug and play type in Garlett or in the state leagues. We also need to make sure when our players go forward they lower their eyes and that or KPF lead more often.

 

[TigerImposter]

It's an internet opinion forum where we debate the issues.

You debate me using role player to pump up White then backflip and contradict yourself. Of course I'll call you out on it.

Yeah but Sir Kenneth Hinkley is not DH

 

[TigerImposter]

Lloyd talking about hird Bomber and DH in the age

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news...d-hardwick-20140912-10fxv8.html#ixzz3DFxiW8Ro

 

[_RT_]

Indeed. But he needs to improve his pace

That he does, but as a goal kicking threat he is dangerous and in a stacked he could be even more dangerous.

They do the most damage where they play right now. Both boys love having the ball in their hands, they play better when they get early ball and a lot of touches. Right now they are playing a lot forward but still influencing the midfield. As permeant forwards they become more one dimensional and easier to shut out of the game.

I get what you're saying and agree both were damaging in those roles, but IMO, they can become even more damaging if playing forward more. As we saw with Lids the second half of the year, his early touches often resulted in a goal as he was isolated 1-1 in the F50. Starting them both forward more often will as I said last night result in a lot more 1-1 contests in our F50 rather than having a lot of zoning off and double teaming.

Yes but those Hawks players mentioned are all very talented forwards, not mids who can go forward but forwards that can pinch hit in the midfield. We are already effectively lining up something similar to that but without Vickery and Lloyd but instead Gordon and another small in there. It might change with Vickery but its still not a team that scores heavily enough.

The biggest difference from your line up to mine though is Garlett instead of Lloyd. Garlett is a 30+ goal guaranteed forward, he has a lot of pace that makes defenders rush their possession and more likely to make a mistake. How often do we bomb the ball to the top of the square only to watch defenders sweep up the ball and run it out the other way? Too much IMO because the guys down their are not great crumbers or great at applying defensive pressure. This goes for Martin especially but also Lids to an extent.

Lids and Martin do not lay enough tackles between them either, about 5 a game. Most of the small forwards we previously mentioned are up around 4 (Ballentine i think is the only exception at 2.7). I think it could be a bit to do with the fact both are more straight line runners the forward line is the most congested place on the field, you need great agility to get to the ball or player with the ball. I think its pretty obvious Edwards is our best defensive pressure forward because he is so nimble and can slip past bodies to get to the ball or player. If we are going to play 3 tall forwards. which I'm a big fan of, we need a very quick nimble guy at their feet making life very difficult for defenders when the ball hits the ground. Lloyd for mine has a long way to go before he is that player and at 24 doesn't have the time to work it out.

Just looking at the tackle numbers of our side and the Hawks forwards:
Roughead 3.1 Bruest 3.3 Gunston 1.9 Puopolo 4.3 Hale 2.3 Rioli 3.9
Jack 2.1 Martin 2.5 Vickery 2.3 Deledio 2.7 Griffiths 2.8 Lloyd 3.5

Looking at that the numbers aren't that different and while I get what you're saying about their guys being forwards first and midfielders second, but in todays game where everyone is expected to be flexible in where they can play I'm not sure it makes much of a difference. Deledio and Martin have shown that they can be multiple goal kickers and are smart enough to be effective forwards.

IMO part of the key for the Hawks forward line being so effective is that spread of talent, it doesn't allow for that double teaming and zoning off and I believe we can achieve something similar if we were to stack our forward line as well. The other key part of the Hawks is their defensive set up when they have the ball in their forward half. They stop the opposition from having those easy rebounds which often helps put pressure on the back 6 of the opposition, which also gives guys like Puopolo and Rioli the chance to lay those tackles. If we can get a similar type of set up with our back like it's possible we can achieve a similar result.

Once again minus Vickery/Griffiths we have been playing this line up for 10-12 weeks. It works okay but we still struggle to get over 100 points despite for the majority of that time dominating clearances and contested possession. But still comes back to what i said above. I'm not actually sure where arguing very different points that we need to diversify our forward set up, more how much time Lids and Martin play up there and i think its perfect right now. Its more about getting a player with pace who can play forward and IMO Garlett is not only the best one on the market in AFL terms he is high quality.

Longer term i would actually prefer McDonough playing a similar role to Lids/Gordon as i think he is the cleverest kick into the forward line, its also why i want Ahern if we don't trade our first. Lids can be very good but also has a habit of bombing to the top of the square, which is also our KPF's fault as all three are better on the lead but don't do it enough. Jack is also a brilliant kick into the forward 50, with Ty and Griff he will need to adapt his game style to be more like Gunstan and setting up goals from HF then out of the square.

Over summer we need to either turn Lloyd into that brilliant FP and work on his pace as much as possible or find a plug and play type in Garlett or in the state leagues. We also need to make sure when our players go forward they lower their eyes and that or KPF lead more often.

Our line up for most of the last 12 weeks had been Jack Vickery or Griffiths Deledio Gordon Foley & Martin. That doesn't have that much of a threat to it as neither Gordon or Foley are particularly threatening. So their opponents would often be the ones who rotate off and zone up/double team. As I said above if we can stack our forward line so that the oppositions defenders have to be accountable and can't role off it should make it a lot easier to score or at least get 1-1 contests and give us a decent chance of locking the ball in F50 until we do score.

As for the names I suggested it might take a little bit of shuffling around to get the mix exactly right and depending on who we draft/trade for/get in free agency the mix could easily change but at the heart of it I like the idea of Jack Vickery Griffiths and at least 1 of Deledio or Martin with a dangerous small goal kicker hovering around. As I said dictate to the opposition rather than them dictating to us.

 

[Calcium Man]

Just looking at the tackle numbers of our side and the Hawks forwards:
Roughead 3.1 Bruest 3.3 Gunston 1.9 Puopolo 4.3 Hale 2.3 Rioli 3.9
Jack 2.1 Martin 2.5 Vickery 2.3 Deledio 2.7 Griffiths 2.8 Lloyd 3.5

Thats 16 tackles to us and 19 to the hawks which i think is a worry when we have two part time midfielders in there. It might not be a lot but its just that extra bit of pressure can make the difference.

s for the names I suggested it might take a little bit of shuffling around to get the mix exactly right and depending on who we draft/trade for/get in free agency the mix could easily change but at the heart of it I like the idea of Jack Vickery Griffiths and at least 1 of Deledio or Martin with a dangerous small goal kicker hovering around. As I said dictate to the opposition rather than them dictating to us.

I really don't think we are arguing very different points. We need more talent up there and we need to stretch defences, but we lack a quality small forward who is a terrier, I think our forward line was shown to be more productive when King was in there even if he didn't kick many. Lloyd might be that player but Garlett is that player (although if what was said about his ex on the other thread true i'm willing to move off him).

I also strongly believe we need to be on Vickery, Jack and Griff to lead as they are all better players like that. And we need our mids lowering their eyes or getting the ball into Martin, Cotchin, Deledio, McDonough, Lennon, Ellis, Houli and Vlas to be kicking into 50. But I really only highly rate McDonough's forward kicking the rest are so so. Jack Billings is the best i've seen kicking into forward 50 but Matty is not far behind, also i really rate that part of Aherns game. S.Edwards and Conca have the amazing vision to set up goals but sometimes lack the polish to hit a target.

Also never ever let Morris kick inside 50. He should be banned from it unless its a long kick to the square under pressure. He is terrible at trying to hit up a target.

 

[Roachy8]

Lloyd talking about hird Bomber and DH in the age

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news...d-hardwick-20140912-10fxv8.html#ixzz3DFxiW8Ro

I hate Lloyd's guts but he got it right there re the Tigers.

 

[TigerImposter]

I hate Lloyd's guts but he got it right there re the Tigers.

Yep I don't like him either ,but I posted that link bc I actually agreed with him
The word "ruthless "was the key and DH concept on fitness expectations as a player was a concern if true. Almost Spud Frawley like as he was lazy on the track , but gave it all on the field
was adored by all and coined by colleagues as being a good bloke and most importantly Spud loved a battler and found room for these types on his list
We have to be ruthless as Lloyd stated and the first step is to do as DH first said when he arrived get guys in who can kick, but now we need to add class and speed also as his list of battlers just don't have it
He needs to he ruthless and let every player be on notice that if you're not up to scratch you will be dropped or delisted as many have said enough is enough we these types
I want it to be Tiger time but not in the sense of what Frawley and Wallet, but as in the Hafey days
The fear is inside me that DH and the rfc powers upstairs are not ruthless enough as they would have moved some guys on before OH Darrou and Helbig or at least with them

 

[blunt_tiger]

Thanks for warning, did not read.

 

[SumTingWong]

Yep I don't like him either ,but I posted that link bc I actually agreed with him
The word "ruthless "was the key and DH concept on fitness expectations as a player was a concern if true. Almost Spud Frawley like as he was lazy on the track , but gave it all on the field
was adored by all and coined by colleagues as being a good bloke and most importantly Spud loved a battler and found room for these types on his list
We have to be ruthless as Lloyd stated and the first step is to do as DH first said when he arrived get guys in who can kick, but now we need to add class and speed also as his list of battlers just don't have it
He needs to he ruthless and let every player be on notice that if you're not up to scratch you will be dropped or delisted as many have said enough is enough we these types
I want it to be Tiger time but not in the sense of what Frawley and Wallet, but as in the Hafey days
The fear is inside me that DH and the rfc powers upstairs are not ruthless enough as they would have moved some guys on before OH Darrou and Helbig or at least with them

I've watched these guys play alooooooooooooooooot of VFL football and I can categorically say that they were nowhere near good enough for AFL level. It was a no brainer to delist them. To suggest otherwise is ill informed.

 

[TigersMan4]

I've watched these guys play alooooooooooooooooot of VFL football and I can categorically say that they were nowhere near good enough for AFL level. It was a no brainer to delist them. To suggest otherwise is ill informed.

do not let facts get in the way of someone sledging the club.

sheesh.

 

[TigerImposter]

I've watched these guys play alooooooooooooooooot of VFL football and I can categorically say that they were nowhere near good enough for AFL level. It was a no brainer to delist them. To suggest otherwise is ill informed.

Soooooooooooooooooooo have I ,and I
Don't doubt you ,but they are beeeeettttttttttttteeeeeeeeeer than Neeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeey

 

[TigerImposter]

do not let facts get in the way of someone sledging the club.

sheesh.

Those players were selected by the club
Not sledging the club . Just mentioning how bad our list has become where young kids we draft or rookie can't get past Grigg Thomas Newy Petterd Chaplin etcetc
The thread says selecting footballers with attacking ability
Hello those five names mentioned above don't fit the OP .They may have a use but we are inundated with so many like them
It's either we are drafting poorly or those guys are so wonderfully equipped footballers that we will win the 2044 super league GF with them
Wasn't potting the club just making an observation

If a shxt can club like Nort with a coach that rubs the genitals of his players like a 1000 crystal balls can win two finals and has got them playing in a preliminary final what does that say about us? Who have probably triple the operating budget and way over resourced in comparison . We are not picking or recruiting the players with attacking ability
Yet Port and Nort have gone the other way to try and beat the Hawks and Swans
Shit it can't be too hard if Brad Scott's worked it out

 

[TigersMan4]

Those players were selected by the club
Not sledging the club . Just mentioning how bad our list has become where young kids we draft or rookie can't get past Grigg Thomas Newy Petterd Foley etcetc
It's either we are drafting poorly or those guys are so wonderfully equipped footballers that we will win the 2044 super league GF with them
Wasn't potting the club just making an observation

Hmmm.
So we are the only club that delists kids who didn't turn into what we thought they could?

Interesting.

 

[TigerImposter]

Hmmm.
So we are the only club that delists kids who didn't turn into what we thought they could?

Interesting.

We keep our duds or golden oldies on for too long and fail to develop kids in the process
A 18 yr old rookie walks into the Kangaroos finals team
Brad Scott has worked it out before DH
it would be hilarious if it wasn't our beloved rfc

 

[TigersMan4]

We keep our duds or golden oldies on for too long and fail to develop kids in the process
A 18 yr old rookie walks into the Kangaroos finals team
Brad Scott has worked it out before DH
it would be hilarious if it wasn't our beloved rfc

So if we had it your way we would be playing only the kids.
Worked out well for gws didn't it?

Oh wait, it will be different. We only play then kids who have gone past the duds. But they haven't? If you watched multiple VFL games this year you would realise that the kids we delisted would get killed in the afl. They were not up to standard like many at other clubs who also got delisted.

You are presenting your il informed opinion as fact.
The duds in the side are better than the kids we got rid of. Fact.