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Strategy Attacking defenders

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There's some definitive opinion in here on who can / can't make it of our youngsters who've had no, or very little, exposure and experience at senior level.

And that's fair enough too, because opinion and discussion is what this forum is all about.

But, until these young guys get a chance at senior level, with some consistent game time to allow them to settle in, we simply don't know for sure. It wasn't that long ago that Hartman was dismissed by many, but he's taken some small steps towards proving his detractors wrong.

And that's what the other guys need. A simple chance. We've got to play them for a string of games, give them the chance to learn, before we'll know whether they can or not.
 
I'd put Guthrie back there again. I'm sorry, but his tagging efforts this year were not quite as good as what they were pumped up to be. He plays in the backline so naturally as well, he really looks like he belongs there to my mind.
 
Baby Duck said:
I'd put Guthrie back there again. I'm sorry, but his tagging efforts this year were not quite as good as what they were pumped up to be. He plays in the backline so naturally as well, he really looks like he belongs there to my mind.
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He was probably the only bloke this season who twice beat Lewis, the Premiers' b&f.
 
FredLeDeux said:
He was probably the only bloke this season who twice beat Lewis, the Premiers' b&f.
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Yeeeeeah I'm not sure if I would go so far as saying he beat Lewis twice. First time around he perhaps had the better of him, then in the second match Lewis got the better of him. Can't remember the final to be honest...
 

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Baby Duck said:
Yeeeeeah I'm not sure if I would go so far as saying he beat Lewis twice. First time around he perhaps had the better of him, then in the second match Lewis got the better of him. Can't remember the final to be honest...
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Got Coaches votes against Lewis in Rd 22, and absolutely obliterated Lewis for 3 quarters in the final, until we had to move him on to the rampaging (untagged) Mitchell.
 
FredLeDeux said:
Got Coaches votes against Lewis in Rd 22, and absolutely obliterated Lewis for 3 quarters in the final, until we had to move him on to the rampaging (untagged) Mitchell.
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Well there you go. Good stuff Guthrie! I am still not convinced that tagging is the best use of his talents, but with Thunt out of form who else do we have to perform the job?
 
Baby Duck said:
Well there you go. Good stuff Guthrie! I am still not convinced that tagging is the best use of his talents, but with Thunt out of form who else do we have to perform the job?
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That's the real issue. I really can't see him going back now, as he's starting to become effective as an offensive tagger, and not just a blanket.
 
FredLeDeux said:
He was probably the only bloke this season who twice beat Lewis, the Premiers' b&f.
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Were my eyes deceiving me, or did Lewis get 3 Brownlow votes in that 2nd game?
 
FredLeDeux said:
Coaches and umps don't agree, eh?
Guthrie was also responsible in that game for gaining more yardage for his team than any other player on either side.
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It was, by its nature, a difficult game to assess performances. Guthrie's first half was possibly as well as I've seen him play. I think he had 22 possessions to half time and Lewis was quiet. The tables were almost turned in the 2nd half. I'm guessing the umpires have goldfish memories. ;)
 
Umpires freaked out late in the year when they realised everyone in the media was talking about Lewis as a Brownlow favourite and they had given him what 3 votes in total for the year. Happened in previous years too... One of the faves get a flood of votes in the last five weeks to get them up to a respectable total.
 

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GFrost said:
Umpires freaked out late in the year when they realised everyone in the media was talking about Lewis as a Brownlow favourite and they had given him what 3 votes in total for the year. Happened in previous years too... One of the faves get a flood of votes in the last five weeks to get them up to a respectable total.
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Can't see that being the case when it isn't the same umps voting every week and they wouldn't know how others rated him during the year.

Some players are more eye-catching than others, though, and I can see umps getting caught up in the hype to a certain extent, perhaps, when it comes to giving votes to one of two players in a "toss up" situation- but not when they're nowhere near deserving of a vote.
 
Teriyakicat said:
Can't see that being the case when it isn't the same umps voting every week and they wouldn't know how others rated him during the year.

Some players are more eye-catching than others, though, and I can see umps getting caught up in the hype to a certain extent, perhaps, when it comes to giving votes to one of two players in a "toss up" situation- but not when they're nowhere near deserving of a vote.
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Patrick Dangerfield, Round 1 v Geelong. Thoroughly kept in check throughout by Guthrie - 2 Brownlow votes.

Hype beats substance again.
 
Partridge said:
Patrick Dangerfield, Round 1 v Geelong. Thoroughly kept in check throughout by Guthrie - 2 Brownlow votes.

Hype beats substance again.
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Yeah- I remember being all :eek: when that got read out. Disgusting bias.
Like Judd picking up votes just for being on the field- I think it detracts from the games in which they actually do play well... i.e. it takes a bit of the gloss off because once we've seen a bloke get votes for one dud game, we start to question others that he's got votes for.
 

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Partridge said:
Patrick Dangerfield, Round 1 v Geelong. Thoroughly kept in check throughout by Guthrie - 2 Brownlow votes.

Hype beats substance again.
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This is a better example of hype beats substance: Geelong vs Sydney rnd 7 2009 (Geelong won 116 to 65). 3 votes: A. Goodes for a 27 disposal 2 goal game. Stevie J with 28 disposals, 11 marks (match high), 4 goals (match high) & 5 behinds (so hitting the scoreboard), got 0 votes. Corey & Selwood with 34 disposals each got the 2 & 1 votes, but I could never work out the votes in that match other then Goodes being the umpires pet.
 
Of the mediums I think Bews , Thurlow( with a few kgs added) and Guthrie can all play down there.
Bews has some serious wheels and will get better with experience and confidence
I wouldn't be adverse to see more of Guthrie in defence particularly if Hartman , Lang and Jansen get a chance in the middle.
Of the emerging talls I would think Hamling and Kolo would be tried at stages in 2015.
Whilst I would love to contend every season I would take a bottom 8 finish next season provided we get more games into our young crop and debut the likes of Jansen , Hamling and Kolo.
 
cats_09 said:
This is a better example of hype beats substance: Geelong vs Sydney rnd 7 2009 (Geelong won 116 to 65). 3 votes: A. Goodes for a 27 disposal 2 goal game. Stevie J with 28 disposals, 11 marks (match high), 4 goals (match high) & 5 behinds (so hitting the scoreboard), got 0 votes. Corey & Selwood with 34 disposals each got the 2 & 1 votes, but I could never work out the votes in that match other then Goodes being the umpires pet.
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Not bad. I can give you an even more egregious example involving the same player - against the same opposition, at the same venue, one year earlier.

Round 5, 2008 at Geelong, in a game Geelong won comprehensively by 42 points - 16.18(114) to 10.12(72):

1 vote - Joel Selwood, 20 possessions, 7 inside 50s.
........
3 votes - Gary Ablett, 35 possessions, 3 goals, 9 clearances, 20 contested possessions. Basically slaughtered them.

But 2 votes went to Adam Goodes. For these dazzling stats - 14 touches and 0 goals. The umpires must really like the way he runs.
 
Partridge said:
Not bad. I can give you an even more egregious example involving the same player - against the same opposition, at the same venue, one year earlier.

Round 5, 2008 at Geelong, in a game Geelong won comprehensively by 42 points - 16.18(114) to 10.12(72):

1 vote - Joel Selwood, 20 possessions, 7 inside 50s.
........
3 votes - Gary Ablett, 35 possessions, 3 goals, 9 clearances, 20 contested possessions. Basically slaughtered them.

But 2 votes went to Adam Goodes. For these dazzling stats - 14 touches and 0 goals. The umpires must really like the way he runs.
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I remember that one - I found the 2009 game before I got to the 2008 matches. I can't work out the votes he gets in games against us, it doesn't seem to make sense when you watch the games or look at the stats. You can understand some players getting the votes when they have been in the losing side, but no way was his best 10 on the ground in 2008, and to be honest Joel was a little lucky also - Jimmy with 27 disposals, 2 goals, 5 inside 50s & 10 tackles put in a pretty good effort that day.
 
cats_09 said:
This is a better example of hype beats substance: Geelong vs Sydney rnd 7 2009 (Geelong won 116 to 65). 3 votes: A. Goodes for a 27 disposal 2 goal game. Stevie J with 28 disposals, 11 marks (match high), 4 goals (match high) & 5 behinds (so hitting the scoreboard), got 0 votes. Corey & Selwood with 34 disposals each got the 2 & 1 votes, but I could never work out the votes in that match other then Goodes being the umpires pet.
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Sounds like you're holding a grudge, cats_09... Gotta let it go!!! ;)

I remember being annoyed by some games in the past where an umpires' pet just needed to be listed on the team sheet to get votes- you'd swear the umps filled their B&F card in before the game!
 

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