Politics Aussie Fascists, (neo)Nazis and Leg Spinners

[demondavey]

I'm very serious about democracy and what it means.

You’re serious about democracy but you’re ok Nazis forming a political party? You do realise Nazis are not democratic?

 

[JustaBattler]

amazing how often someone says the left and right are equally bad while running cover for the right

You find the notions of anti-censorship and no bullets challenging enough to reply with insults based on nothing except your own biases ? Read some history before you push the notion that there is any difference between fascists on the left and fascists on the right. left right left right - jack boots are jackboots - not rocket science to figure that out.

 

[demondavey]

I'm pretty sure - although I could be wrong about this that whoever you are pointing fingers at weren't alive in the 1930's. I prefer my brand of democracy to yours- you sound like a totalitarian to me I don't like totalitarian POV expressed by those self declared knowers of whats best for everyone irrespective of the mangled words and phrases they use. Best to let arguments be aired and live or die according to their own merit.

What’s totally lost on you is that you think the NSN is a Democratic Party. One of their policy platforms is to deport individuals of Jewish and Islamic faith. How do you view that as being democratic?

 

[JustaBattler]

You’re serious about democracy but you’re ok Nazis forming a political party? You do realise Nazis are not democratic?

Im totally relaxed about anyone proposing to debate anything - that is what civil society is about. One doesn't have to agree with any opinion to understand that is fundamental tenant of peaceful coexistence is a people's right to air their views.

 

[JustaBattler]

What’s totally lost on you is that you think the NSN is a Democratic Party. One of their policy platforms is to deport individuals of Jewish and Islamic faith. How do you view that as being democratic?

For starters - It gives people with a different view the opportunity to debate the reasons why it is a stupid policy to push.

 

[demondavey]

You find the notions of anti-censorship and no bullets challenging enough to reply with insults based on nothing except your own biases ? Read some history before you push the notion that there is any difference between fascists on the left and fascists on the right. left right left right - jack boots are jackboots - not rocket science to figure that out.

Ok, let’s just pull you up here. Right now we have the NSN wanting to form a political party. This is a right wing party that literally espouses the values of Adolf Hitler. We don’t have another party from the left wanting to return communist values aka the Soviet Union and upholding the values of Stalin.

The issue at play is a right wing Nazi one, yet you’re still finding ways to compare the jackboots of the left and the right. This essentially paints you as a sympathiser, hiding behind democracy. Next you’ll tell us that a policy to discriminate against Jews is free speech.

You do realise it started this way in Germany? The Nazi party and members slowly gathered momentum. They went through so called democratic processes. Whilst they had lower levels of influence they imparted their discrimination in a more modest way; spitting, insulting, damaging property. Then they got more power and the discrimination ramped up, then they gained all the power and that’s when they had carte blanche to murder them on an industrial level.

So you might call this democracy because you’re either a sympathetic racist, or you might actually have NFI what democracy means.

 

[Gralin]

Im totally relaxed about anyone proposing to debate anything - that is what civil society is about. One doesn't have to agree with any opinion to understand that is fundamental tenant of peaceful coexistence is a people's right to air their views.

well my view would be that a bunch of fascist child groomers that want to remove everyone not white from Australia and marry 14 year old girls probably shouldn't be allowed to run for parliament based on what their actual self stated end goals are

 

[demondavey]

Im totally relaxed about anyone proposing to debate anything - that is what civil society is about. One doesn't have to agree with any opinion to understand that is fundamental tenant of peaceful coexistence is a people's right to air their views.

So you’re ok with the NSN airing their views by supporting Adolf Hitler? Because that’s what they’ll do. You realise what they stood for, don’t you? I mean they happily rounded up children and fed them into industrial gas chambers, and the ones that didn’t die they brought out and shot them in the head.

There’s a Jewish school not far from me. People like Thomas Sewell and the other Nazis would happily gas all those kids or machine gun them if they could.

But hey, you’re ok with parties having a right to air their views democratically who have the opinion that murdering kids because of who they are is ok.

Thanks.

 

[demondavey]

well my view would be that a bunch of fascist child groomers that want to remove everyone not white from Australia and marry 14 year old girls probably shouldn't be allowed to run for parliament based on what their actual self stated end goals are

Forget it. He doesn’t get it. He thinks that irrespective of your views you should be able to enter parliament.

 

[Gralin]

Forget it. He doesn’t get it. He thinks that irrespective of your views you should be able to enter parliament.

Does he not get it, or does he absolutely get it?

 

[demondavey]

Im totally relaxed about anyone proposing to debate anything - that is what civil society is about. One doesn't have to agree with any opinion to understand that is fundamental tenant of peaceful coexistence is a people's right to air their views.

Civil society and Nazis in the same sentence.

6 million Jews later.

Civility.

 

[demondavey]

Does he not get it, or does he absolutely get it?

Well he is likely a blatant racist POS if that answers your question. He gets it in that he thinks democracy encompasses all views irrespective of their ideologies, he doesn’t get it in that he think the NSN will act democratically.

 

[demondavey]

I think it might be best to talk to some extreme Muslims about forming a political party to air their views democratically. There is definitely a cohort in Australia that ASIO has on the watch list. In my opinion I think it best if these individuals form a party to spread and promote their anti western anti Christian anti Jewish sentiments whilst promoting extremists like Bin Laden. I feel like the only way we will really understand the plight of those that despise western values is to help them create a Democratic Party.

Whilst the above is dripping with sarcasm, can you imagine the furore IF a Muslim group who was vehemently anti western values decided that they would like to run for parliament? Why should we perceive a group of Nazis as any different?

 

[Gralin]

Well he is likely a blatant racist POS if that answers your question. He gets it in that he thinks democracy encompasses all views irrespective of their ideologies, he doesn’t get it in that he think the NSN will act democratically.

Oh I think anyone defending the right of nazis to form a political party knows exactly how it's going to end if they get into power

They tend to fall into two camps though

People who think it will never happen so they'll take the "principled" position of letting them in

People who think it will happen as long as they loudly claim the principled position is to let them in

The problem of course is the two groups work together very well and both claim to be in group one

 

[demondavey]

Oh I think anyone defending the right of nazis to form a political party knows exactly how it's going to end if they get into power

They tend to fall into two camps though

People who think it will never happen so they'll take the "principled" position of letting them in

People who think it will happen as long as they loudly claim the principled position is to let them in

The problem of course is the two groups work together very well and both claim to be in group one

Is the only way to stop them becoming a legitimate political party to label them a terrorist organisation?

 

[Gralin]

Is the only way to stop them becoming a legitimate political party to label them a terrorist organisation?

No idea

Like I said though to become a party they need 1500+ members willing to give their names to the AEC if they want to be registered federally

I'm interested to see if they can reach those numbers given the rather public job losses a few of them have faced recently

My issue currently isn't whether they can meet the criteria though it's chuds on here acting like the way you beat nazis is letting them run for government

 

[JustaBattler]

Ok, let’s just pull you up here. Right now we have the NSN wanting to form a political party. This is a right wing party that literally espouses the values of Adolf Hitler. We don’t have another party from the left wanting to return communist values aka the Soviet Union and upholding the values of Stalin.

The issue at play is a right wing Nazi one, yet you’re still finding ways to compare the jackboots of the left and the right. This essentially paints you as a sympathiser, hiding behind democracy. Next you’ll tell us that a policy to discriminate against Jews is free speech.

You do realise it started this way in Germany? The Nazi party and members slowly gathered momentum. They went through so called democratic processes. Whilst they had lower levels of influence they imparted their discrimination in a more modest way; spitting, insulting, damaging property. Then they got more power and the discrimination ramped up, then they gained all the power and that’s when they had carte blanche to murder them on an industrial level.

So you might call this democracy because you’re either a sympathetic racist, or you might actually have NFI what democracy means.

The more you post using silly ad hominems - the more you sound like the people you are opposing - you get that right?

 

[demondavey]

The more you post using silly ad hominems - the more you sound like the people you are opposing - you get that right?

Yeah, nah.

Thanks for confirming for all and sundry that you couldn’t care less what this party stands for as long as they become a political party for ‘democracy’.

Thanks also for completely misreading my post and doing your best to victim blame.

 

[JustaBattler]

well my view would be that a bunch of fascist child groomers that want to remove everyone not white from Australia and marry 14 year old girls probably shouldn't be allowed to run for parliament based on what their actual self stated end goals are

The problem with your view isnt your opinion about why a certain group shouldn't be allowed to run for Parliament - but the fact that you believe that someone shouldn't be allowed to run for Parliament. There is much more to be gained by having people expose themselves and their views as well as their supporters - than force them into hiding.

The TLDR version of what I am saying is very simple really - I want to know who my enemy is.

 

[Gralin]

The problem with your view isnt your opinion about why a certain group shouldn't be allowed to run for Parliament - but the fact that you believe that someone shouldn't be allowed to run for Parliament. There is much more to be gained by having people expose themselves and their views as well as their supporters - than force them into hiding.

The TLDR version of what I am saying is very simple really - I want to know who my enemy is.

They're Nazis

They've told everyone they are Nazis

It's not that hard to understand why people don't want nazis running for office is it?

The fact we are in a time and place where openly running as Nazis is an option says a lot

 

[JustaBattler]

They're Nazis

They've told everyone they are Nazis

It's not that hard to understand why people don't want nazis running for office is it?

The fact we are in a time and place where openly running as Nazis is an option says a lot

It doesn't matter what a bunch of looney toons say they are- what matters is what they do. What they do is subject to the law of the land. Maybe you are arguing that calling oneself a Nazi should be illegal. Maybe you are arguing that any Nazi Party should be illegal. Right now both of these are not illegal. It is up to elected representatives of the people who make laws in Parliament to make laws or not.

 

[Gralin]

It doesn't matter what a bunch of looney toons say they are- what matters is what they do.

I mean I think if they're saying they're Nazis we should probably treat them as Nazis

And we know what they do, we've got plenty of examples of what the NSN does

What they do is subject to the law of the land.

They certainly spend a lot of time in court

Maybe you are arguing that calling oneself a Nazi should be illegal.

No I'm saying you acting like it doesn't mean anything is at best being a useful idiot

Maybe you are arguing that any Nazi Party should be illegal.

I think if they want to found a political party based on Hitler's ideology it should be considered incompatible with democracy

Right now both of these are not illegal. It is up to elected representatives of the people who make laws in Parliament to make laws or not.

Yes and they're trying to get elected

Can you see the problem if they do?

 

[demondavey]

It doesn't matter what a bunch of looney toons say they are- what matters is what they do. What they do is subject to the law of the land. Maybe you are arguing that calling oneself a Nazi should be illegal. Maybe you are arguing that any Nazi Party should be illegal. Right now both of these are not illegal. It is up to elected representatives of the people who make laws in Parliament to make laws or not.

Have you got a problem with Nazis? Do you think their ideologies are problematic given they promote mass discrimination, persecution and extermination of those they don’t view as adequate?

 

[GreyWind]

Is the only way to stop them becoming a legitimate political party to label them a terrorist organisation?

As a general rule with extreme far right political parties within Australia these things never go far in a legitimate sense. It always ends up with infighting.

Just need to look at how the recent cooker rallies for Australia have splintered with each organiser in each state wanting control. Go back further when Cottrell was the prominent figure, his attempts at a political party failed as well.

The NSN while organised and militaristic you only need to look at the demographics from the recent Sydney protest. Half of those dunce campaigners were only white passing thinking that they are one of the "good ones" and are special.

Never the right sexual orientation.
Never the right sex.
Never the right kind of white.
Never the right religious denomination.
Never the right socio-economic group.

Until then we keep attacking the NSN and people who agree with them. They have no place in decent society.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

The problem with your view isnt your opinion about why a certain group shouldn't be allowed to run for Parliament - but the fact that you believe that someone shouldn't be allowed to run for Parliament. There is much more to be gained by having people expose themselves and their views as well as their supporters - than force them into hiding.

The TLDR version of what I am saying is very simple really - I want to know who my enemy is.

I used to think as you do. Back in 2011 I wrote this;

Politics - Is controversial far-right Dutch politician Geert Wilders thinking of an Australian visit?

Saw this piece in The Age; Dutch radical gets Lib backing http://www.theage.com.au/national/dutch-radical-gets-lib-backing-20110906-1jw01.html by Richard Willingham September 7, 2011 ULTRA-CONSERVATIVE Liberal senator Cory Bernardi has provoked outrage by offering to help...

www.bigfooty.com

...In the Great War of Ideas you've got to prove that your viewpoint is morally right by explaining it better than the other person, not by denying them the right to speak.

I believe we are ALL of equal worth as human beings. Racism and bigotry disagree with that notion, often violently, and so I'll always oppose them.

However I've lived quite a bit since 2011 and now, and I've increasingly come to realise something.

Universal human rights matter. They matter more than universal free speech OR unfettered democracy. "But they're small,' you might say of these neo-Nazis. 'They'll never get numbers in an election!'

I beg to differ.

All it takes is enough economic uncertainty for a snake-like hiss of "African gangs! Halal certificates! Asian shops everywhere! It's all THEIR fault that Whites can't get jobs or afford rent. Vote for US and we'll make THEM go away!" to become the deceptive Voice of Reason.

Granting democratic freedom to those whose political intent is to take human rights away is nothing but an open invitation to destroy any idea we had of a tolerant society going forward.

Groups who wish to take the human rights of others away and/or restrict the ability of minority cultures, ethnicities and sexual preferences/identities to function in society should themselves have no way to function in our society.

They want to take the rights of others yet demand the protections of our common laws and judiciary?

More fools us if we even let them get the tip of a jackboot inside our door.