Australia’s 2nd Division Thread (proposal)

[General Giant]

Australian football working towards National Second Division in 2021

Football Federation Australia (FFA) today released a discussion paper to work towards the establishment of a National Second Division. FFA Chairman Chris Nikou said the white paper was prepared by the National Second Division Working Group, to consider the key principles that should underpin a...

www.ffa.com.au

Well I guess we are starting the process.

Couldn't find another thread so discussions about the A2 or The Championsship away we go.

 

[giggler99]

FFA lays foundations for national second division, promotion and relegation
Dominic Bossi

Before any of that can happen, the competition must prove to be financially viable and sustainable but already there are disagreements over costs. The Association of Australian Football Clubs, representing state league teams, believe second division clubs could operate of a yearly budget of $2.5 million per season, more than half the forecast of the Australian players' union, PFA, suggesting minimal annual running costs of $5.4m. The uncertainty over Fox Sports' long-term commitment to Australian football raises further questions over the broadcast of the potential second division which must also buck the trend of second tiers in other codes by attracting considerable commercial partners.

All of those matters are set to be addressed by the steering committee that will oversee the project of establishing the competition, due to report its findings by November this year. That committee was one of the recommendations from the white paper released by the FFA, which is not in itself definitive but aimed at starting formal discussions about the way forward, including potential clubs, timelines, competition format and objectives.
"The development of a blueprint for a national second division which all stakeholders are aligned with is critical to better connect the various levels and pathways throughout the Australian football ecosystem," FFA chairman Chris Nikou said. "There is general consensus between the stakeholders involved in this process, the Association of Australian Football Clubs, Professional Footballers Australia, Member Federations and FFA that a sustainable national second division would be a significant step forward for football."
A second division would enable football to improve player pathways, offer more opportunities for Australian players, increase the footprint of professional footprint while also repair relationships with clubs and communities that may be disengaged with the A-League.
The white paper did not identify preferred markets for clubs but the steering committee will look at including teams from non-major cities as well as potentially reviving failed bids from the recent expansion round, such as Canberra, Wollongong and Tasmania. There is also an expression from former National Soccer League clubs, such as South Melbourne and potential interest from Marconi.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/soc...national-second-division-20190620-p51zpz.html

Sounds exciting in theory but practically I can't see it working economically and commercially.

thoughts?

 

[giggler99]

Australian football working towards National Second Division in 2021

Football Federation Australia (FFA) today released a discussion paper to work towards the establishment of a National Second Division. FFA Chairman Chris Nikou said the white paper was prepared by the National Second Division Working Group, to consider the key principles that should underpin a...

www.ffa.com.au

Well I guess we are starting the process.

Couldn't find another thread so discussions about the A2 or The Championsship away we go.

Yeah good idea to start a new thread on this it's an important process for Australian Football I think we can leave the expansion thread just for the A-league expansion.

I don't like calling it the Championship when the Aleague Chamiopns are called well the Champions you know what I mean.. Also just because its called the Championship in England so we should also call it the Championship?

Maybe A2 league or just NPL league or something.

 

[giggler99]

I'm gonna add a quick poll to the thread if thats alright with you General Giant

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Need it like a hole in the head.

 

[General Giant]

Yeah good idea to start a new thread on this it's an important process for Australian Football I think we can leave the expansion thread just for the A-league expansion.

I don't like calling it the Championship when the Aleague Chamiopns are called well the Champions you know what I mean.. Also just because its called the Championship in England so we should also call it the Championship?

Maybe A2 league or just NPL league or something.

Was always a fan of the A2 name for some reason.
NPL also fits.

 

[General Giant]

FFA lays foundations for national second division, promotion and relegation
Dominic Bossi

Before any of that can happen, the competition must prove to be financially viable and sustainable but already there are disagreements over costs. The Association of Australian Football Clubs, representing state league teams, believe second division clubs could operate of a yearly budget of $2.5 million per season, more than half the forecast of the Australian players' union, PFA, suggesting minimal annual running costs of $5.4m. The uncertainty over Fox Sports' long-term commitment to Australian football raises further questions over the broadcast of the potential second division which must also buck the trend of second tiers in other codes by attracting considerable commercial partners.

All of those matters are set to be addressed by the steering committee that will oversee the project of establishing the competition, due to report its findings by November this year. That committee was one of the recommendations from the white paper released by the FFA, which is not in itself definitive but aimed at starting formal discussions about the way forward, including potential clubs, timelines, competition format and objectives.
"The development of a blueprint for a national second division which all stakeholders are aligned with is critical to better connect the various levels and pathways throughout the Australian football ecosystem," FFA chairman Chris Nikou said. "There is general consensus between the stakeholders involved in this process, the Association of Australian Football Clubs, Professional Footballers Australia, Member Federations and FFA that a sustainable national second division would be a significant step forward for football."
A second division would enable football to improve player pathways, offer more opportunities for Australian players, increase the footprint of professional footprint while also repair relationships with clubs and communities that may be disengaged with the A-League.
The white paper did not identify preferred markets for clubs but the steering committee will look at including teams from non-major cities as well as potentially reviving failed bids from the recent expansion round, such as Canberra, Wollongong and Tasmania. There is also an expression from former National Soccer League clubs, such as South Melbourne and potential interest from Marconi.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/soc...national-second-division-20190620-p51zpz.html

Sounds exciting in theory but practically I can't see it working economically and commercially.

thoughts?

I think if there's a cap that it will be possible financially.

Baseball, Ice hockey and a lot of other minor sports have national comps with some tweaking on how they are structured and run.

Would hope it wouldn't just be npl clubs but also clubs that are in regions needing a team, your Canberras, Tassie etc

As for tv?

Well a lot depends on the getting indepedence for the A-league, actually think it will grow the game and get us back on an upward spiral.

We have 4 years to turn it around, or, find alternate ways of making money from streaming broadcasting etc.

 

[craigos]

Was always a fan of the A2 name for some reason.
NPL also fits.

The A2 Milk Second Division - You just know the FFA would be all over that.
I think we need a full season of the youth league before we start with a second division. Can that work using an U23 style set up like the Premier League that allows a few over age players? I'm not sure.

 

[General Giant]

The A2 Milk Second Division - You just know the FFA would be all over that.
I think we need a full season of the youth league before we start with a second division. Can that work using an U23 style set up like the Premier League that allows a few over age players? I'm not sure.

Haha if it works it works.

At least there's discussion and with enough football people involved it may work.

A full youth comp would be great but I think that also depends on independence.

 

[burge13]

I can't imagine every aleague side is profiting without FFA help currently; how are 2nd division sides supposed to travel around the country?

TV deal in the aleague is weak and fox apparently want out of it so where will the $ come from for this?

Crowd numbers on the decline in the top flight and now we expect people to watch Metrostars v Blacktown in a 2nd division?

A2 sound great in theory but there just isn't the money, nor interest to do it here. Logistical nightmare for smaller clubs to travel around the country, will need 2nd jobs as well as training. Never going to work in practice but I really do hope I'm wrong

 

[Galaxie77]

Great , hopefully the old NSL teams will be admitted, so we can have some real football culture back.

 

[General Giant]

Great , hopefully the old NSL teams will be admitted, so we can have some real football culture back.

 

[Galaxie77]

View attachment 697062

Yeah Stan

 

[General Giant]

Yeah Stan

They went broke last time through stupidity and infighting.

I'm all for a 2nd Division and promo/relegation but fu** me it wasn't that great back then. Much much worse.

 

[hey shorty]

Yeah Stan

Yeah can't wait for clubs to go broke and have no one turn up. Good idea.

As for a Div 2..... nope.

 

[General Giant]

Knights response.

 

[General Giant]

https://amp.smh.com.au/sport/soccer...0200304-p546on.html?__twitter_impression=true


FFA set to call for expressions of interest in A-League second tier
By Vince Rugari
March 4, 2020 — 4.27pm
Football Federation Australia is set to take its national second-division blueprint to the market to gauge the interest and financial capability of clubs outside the A-League - and chief executive James Johnson believes it should be "full steam ahead" if the response is strong enough.

It has been three months since FFA's steering committee for the ambitious project, led by board member and former National Soccer League boss Remo Nogarotto, was due to release firmer details on how the proposed second tier - a necessary precursor to A-League promotion and relegation - can get off the ground.

Wollongong Wolves won last year's NPL finals series and would be among the leading contenders to participate in a national second division.
Wollongong Wolves won last year's NPL finals series and would be among the leading contenders to participate in a national second division.
Photo: Sylvia Liber
Johnson concedes some vital questions remain unanswered, including how much it will cost clubs annually to participate, and whether the competition should be played in parallel with the A-League in summer or the NPL season in winter.

But Johnson believes the next step is to "test the market", most likely through an informal EOI-style process, to further understand what sort of money interested clubs are able to spend and use that information to help complete financial modelling.

"If we can find sufficient interest, then why not do it? I am a big believer in playing more football matches at a national level, at a higher level, because I think that will help stimulate game development," Johnson told the Herald.


"I don't think five national-level competition games per week is enough - not when we're competing internationally.

"We're at the stage where we have a nice concept, the working group's done some great work, and now we have to test the market."

Johnson conceded much more "number-crunching" was needed, but an equilibrium had to be found between the positions of different stakeholders, who hold contrasting opinions on what should be required financially from clubs in a second tier.

"There's two views - obviously we need to be pragmatic and set the player costs and the running of a club at a lower level so that more matches can be played. Then there's another view which is we need to set it at a higher level because we need a higher product," he said.

"On one hand, we don't want to create a competition that's not going to add any value - it needs to be quality. But we don't want to set the bar so high that we can't do it, because the reality is the vast majority of countries around the world have a second-tier competition. Why is it that we can't?"


FFA chief executive James Johnson believes it's time to test the market for interest in a national second division.
FFA chief executive James Johnson believes it's time to test the market for interest in a national second division.
Photo: Sam Mooy
In 2017, the Association of Australian Football Clubs (AAFC) released a rough framework for a second-tier league called 'The Championship'. It proposed an annual working budget for clubs of $2.5 million - $3 million short of what Professional Footballers Australia's projections suggest would be needed.

While the two organisations have worked closely together on the steering committee, sources close to the project told the Herald they still remain some distance apart. Key figures at FFA also remain privately sceptical about whether enough clubs will have enough money to make a second division worthwhile, sources said.

Johnson has flagged tweaks to other competitions in the event a second tier does not eventuate to provide more national-level matches, including beefing up the FFA Cup or end-of-season NPL finals series to tournaments more closely resembling a continental Champions League.

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"We could quite simply change the format of the FFA Cup or NPL so we have group stages instead of knockout competitions. I think we have to explore all these different avenues," he said.


AAFC chairman Nick Galatas believes that won't be necessary, and that "more than enough" suitable candidates for a 14 or 16-team league will emerge.

"We think there's easily enough, but you never know until you know - until there's formal applications based on a formal set of criteria," Galatas told the Herald.

"That's why we're going back and honing it a little bit to fine-tune the numbers. We're working both ways, what the clubs can do and what has been identified by the steering committee to date as a good starting point, and working towards what is the best way to start."


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[giggler99]

Good to see steps being taken, still a very long way to go before we're there through, an expressions of interest is a good plan to see who really is interested. I'm sure they'll get a lot of these NPL clubs applying but until we see a real prerequisite criteria required then we'll see who is left standing.

 

[General Giant]

 

[General Giant]

 

[giggler99]

I still think it’s a fair way off especially post Covid. nice to see these ventures/conferences happening.. But it would be good to see a viable economic plan as well as an entry criteria rather than just a show of hands on which clubs are interested.

 

[General Giant]

I still think it’s a fair way off especially post Covid. nice to see these ventures/conferences happening.. But it would be good to see a viable economic Plan as well as an entry criteria rather than just a show of hands on which clubs are interested.

They did say they plan on releasing their document, including costs, to the public once this meeting is over with.

 

[giggler99]

They did say they plan on releasing their document, including costs, to the public once this meeting is over with.

Looking forward to reading it

 

[General Giant]

looking forward to reading it

I think a lot of people are.

They have gotten much media over the whole story that they have a plan all setup and ready to go including financials, just no one has seen it.

Will be a good read either way.

 

[Easty]

It will be very interesting to see how this is all structured - Aus sport doesn't really have promotion/relegation in any of it's other codes so I'm not entirely sure if fans will truly embrace it.