Australia’s 2nd Division Thread (proposal)

Should Australia have a second Division to the A-League?

  • Yes

    Votes: 14 70.0%
  • No

    Votes: 6 30.0%
  • Don't Care

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    20

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megadeth86

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I see that and immediately think "what a bunch of w***ers". Hopefully that's not a sign of their (un)professionalism.

I'd love to see all clubs having access to the A-League. Whether or not the supporter/financial base is there at those clubs for sustained success... Sponsors and TV rights, that's what keeps it all alive, will people keep tuning in to see the smaller clubs getting belted because their players can't get near it? Some complained when more clubs were introduced to the A-League as it "diluted the local talent pool". Will smaller clubs have the dollars to sign quality players and play attractive winning football? I can only hope so.

What won't be accepted in the A-League are the clubs tied to ethnic lines. Proven failure, archaic club culture that assisted killing the old league. Clubs in the top tiers should be available for all to follow. That, and it's just a damn ugly look on TV, people roll their eyes and say "here we go again". TV is paying the bills! There's been a concerted effort to keep those clubs out of the A-League even though they are some of the biggest outside of it.

I hope a second tier takes off. The travel costs would be nuts!
So it is an unforgiveable sin for a club to have been founded by Greek men 70 years ago, as opposed to what, being founded by Anglo men 70 years ago?

Ever heard of a club called Glasgow Celtic playing in the Scottish Premiership? I guess you'd ban them too.
 

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General Giant

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Excluding Gold Coast United and North Queensland Fury crowds of course.

And interestingly Perth Glory's record home crowd even today is still from a 1998 NSL game versus South Melbourne.
I’m talking season averages, competition averages. Anyone can pull off a 1 time big crowd.
 

General Giant

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So it is an unforgiveable sin for a club to have been founded by Greek men 70 years ago, as opposed to what, being founded by Anglo men 70 years ago?
Have those clubs in the NPL grown? Or will they destroy their own league again?

I’m always amazed that people call the ALeague clubs racist because they are based on location not on cultural background while the mono clubs aren’t racist.
 
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General Giant

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Progress Report highlights the feasibility of a national second division, with clubs as the foundation for success

Establishment of a national second division (NSD) competition is affordable and feasible according to a progress report released today by the Association of Australian Football Clubs (AAFC).

The progress report, entitled Reshaping Australian Football’s National Second Tier, states that the annual cost of running a NSD is estimated at up to $3.3 million. This includes centralised travel costs, but excludes any potential revenue from an anticipated OTT streaming solution, broadcasting and gaming data, and player transfers.

In addition to the club participation fee of $200,000 per season, it is estimated that each club would require an annual budget of between $850,000 and $1.6 million – something that the 32 Partner Clubs involved in the interim report view as eminently achievable.

Under current arrangements, the clubs taking part in the state or regional-based National Premier Leagues require up to $900,000 per season to take part in their competition, depending on their location and the size of the competition.

Significantly, most clubs already operate numerous teams and have activities and facilities in place and do not require significant, additional infrastructure expenditure.

The single biggest cost to run the competition is travel, and the interim report sets out detailed analysis of the costs involved and how these can be met.

The report notes that “… Clubs have expressed confidence they can generate additional revenue, especially for the commencement and establishment phases. Principally, this is from being able to offer to sponsors, supporters, and members a new, more exciting product…”.

AAFC believes that a NSD is critical to a re-set of football in Australia because it would provide motivation and inspiration to genuine community clubs to aspire to the highest level of competition possible.

The progress report refers to sentiments expressed by former English Premier League supremo and Advisor to the A-League clubs, Richard Scudamore, that there is nothing as strong in building football culture as home grown loyalty.

“Football clubs have been in Australia since the 1880s and have been built by people from all parts of the world who have all culturally enriched our country,” the progress report states.

“It is the continuation of these clubs - as strong, vital and ambitious football clubs - which is critical to the development and organic growth of our game.”

The progress report makes it clear that many of the clubs which form the state-based competition structure have had “burdens and restrictions” imposed on them which limit their potential, to the detriment of the whole game.

AAFC believes it is time for a merit-based competition structure to be introduced as meritocracy is both the “Australian way” and occurs in most football competitions around the world.

The interim report, which has been funded by 32 Partner Clubs from around the country with financial analysis undertaken by MI Associates, sets out a timeframe and key performance measures for operation of a NSD that would see the competition commence in 2022, and a women’s NSD introduced by 2025.

Key features of a proposed NSD are:

A single national competition comprising 12 teams from the outset but expanding to 16 teams as soon as possible, and preferably within the first four years;
All participating clubs must have grounds that can accommodate a minimum of 3,000 fans;
Teams to be included based on meeting stringent criteria as the basis for entry, followed by promotion and relegation from lower tiers. There are ten criteria to be met including in the areas of youth development, coaching standards, finance and facilities;
A $200,000 participation fee from each club;
A requirement for participating clubs to have a comprehensive women’s programme in place as a pre-requisite for participation in the NSD;
No preference for a winter or summer season, but alignment with the ‘Whole of Football’ calendar; and
Establishment of a Women’s Football, Marketing, and Youth and Coach Development Steering Committees.

It is proposed that the NSD would be overseen by an Advisory Board comprising members of Football Australia and AAFC, supported by the steering committees.

The next steps involve consultation with key stakeholders in football, principally Football Australia, the state and regional-based member federations, the A-League clubs and other football stakeholders before finalising the report by Easter for presentation to the Football Australia Board.
 

Munga

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So it is an unforgiveable sin for a club to have been founded by Greek men 70 years ago, as opposed to what, being founded by Anglo men 70 years ago?

Ever heard of a club called Glasgow Celtic playing in the Scottish Premiership? I guess you'd ban them too.
No, that's not it at all. The past is the past, we're talking about TODAY. As I said, clubs should be available for ALL to follow. Ethnic only clubs, whatever the background, are archaic and discriminatory. It's pretty obvious this day and age.
 

General Giant

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Check out the history of Brisbane Roar - it is based on Hollandia Inala Soccer Club (not that I have any problem with that at all, I don't despise non-Anglo ethnic origins).
Please point to where I’ve said I despise non Anglo clubs?

I have a problem when people call the ALeague clubs racist, especially when they back a mono ethnic club.
 

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giggler99

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I get the optimistic's, But Why wouldn't they release the papers to show how doable and financially sustainable it will be? would help a lot with any doubts.
Having said that I know there is a lot of work going on behind the scenes to get this to work. We just shouldn't be putting the cart before the horse through because it needs to be done right. I don't want to see a second division then five years later disbanded due to lack of financial institutes support, interests and shortsightedness. It needs to be a long term project, goal, vision..etc for the future of the game.
 
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General Giant

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I get the optimistic's, But Why wouldn't they release the papers to show how doable and financially sustainable it will be? would help a lot with any doubts.
Having said that I know there is a lot of work going on behind the scenes to get this to work. We just shouldn't be putting the cart before the horse through because it needs to be done right. I don't want to see a second division then five years later disbanded due to lack of financial institutes support, interests and shortsightedness. It needs to be a long term project, goal, vision..etc for the future of the game.
Same. Seems like they are hoping for some golden goose to arrive.
 
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megadeth86

Team Captain
Jul 15, 2020
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AFL Club
Carlton
Please point to where I’ve said I despise non Anglo clubs?

I have a problem when people call the ALeague clubs racist, especially when they back a mono ethnic club.
Sorry, mate, I think we got our wires crossed here. You were saying in the beginning that the A-League clubs are based on district not ethnicity. I don't disagree with that obviously. My point was only that Brisbane Roar has a traditional ethnic affiliation. If they wanted a club with no ethnic affiliation or history then the Brisbane Strikers bid should have been accepted instead of Brisbane Roar. (Again I don't have a problem with ethnic affiliations but some people do.)
 

Marcel Proust

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After the super league music let us reflect. Why is the a league a closed shop?

We have had hundreds of reasons from thousands of people stating why a merit based system is superior in football.

Do our wonderful historic state league need more respect and pathways?
 

giggler99

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The super league has highlighted why oz needs the state league clubs to have top division pathways. On merit.
All nice in theory, who's gonna fund these clubs? Will these clubs have the support to sustain being in the A-League? community and commercially?

I know South Melbourne, Melbourne Knights maybe Heidelberg in Victoria might be able to but what about clubs like Bentleigh, Hume, who are based off their ethic communities etc.. If they get promoted what can they bring to the A-League?

Are their enough fans for it to work? Is the player depth sustainable especially locally and at youth level?

All these questions need to be answered and more.. before any Pro/Rel comes in.
 
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Marcel Proust

"Oohh WADA ooga booga" {Jul 11 2013}
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All nice in theory, who's gonna fund these clubs? Will these clubs have the support to sustain being in the A-League? community and commercially?

I know South Melbourne, Melbourne Knights maybe Heidelberg in Victoria might be able to but what about clubs like Bentleigh, Hume, who are based off their ethic communities etc.. What if they get promoted can they bring to the A-League?

Are their enough fans for it to work? Is the player depth sustainable especially locally and at youth level?

All these questions need to be answered and more.. before any Pro/Rel comes in.
They are already self funded?

Planes might be expensive but that's it isn't it?

I think other countries have standards you must fill to go up a grade. At least 3000 seats or whatever
 

General Giant

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What funding would be needed outside transport? They already exist and have so for a long time
Flights aren’t cheap in anyway.
Clubs can’t afford full time players and as such would need be part time.
Would they be able to pay players if they get promoted?

Would love to see it but just can’t see how a NSD is workable.

We are still awaiting the funding model from AAFC which they have been promising has been done for over a year now.
 

giggler99

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They are already self funded?

Planes might be expensive but that's it isn't it?

I think other countries have standards you must fill to go up a grade. At least 3000 seats or whatever
Self funded by the community in the out back suburbs is not the some as self funding a club in a multi million dollar professional league.
 
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acm21

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May 7, 2019
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What funding would be needed outside transport? They already exist and have so for a long time
The league would need to turn into a fully professional league, that would be the second biggest cost. The npl state based league is the closest we've got, but the official status of that would unlikely be upto official 2nd tier standing. Maybe the best option is to create a club championship that consists of the top 3-4 of each state npl league, instead of the current finals system.
 

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