Australia, China and ASEAN

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Gough

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Sep 29, 2006
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We've reached a Chinese like point at the moment anyway where any criticism of the government is framed through the prism of patriotism.
 

ExcitementMachine

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OP needs to settle down. He goes off on tangents and it's like he's trying to be a stand up comedian or something.
He flicks a lot of mud at the LNP - and a lot of it is valid, but not relevant to the subject - He has a propensity to go off on angry rants without taking a breath and being unable to see the nuance rooted from him splashing in the mud of the culture wars and his hatred of Sky News.

Paul Keating was a visionary - some say Australia's best Prime Minister - but Richard Marles is within reason to say his views on the matter are not in line with the ALP's contemporary position.

Some posters complain about the culture wars 'bullshit', but can't see that they encapsulate it. What's also lost is the nuance to the media landscape - it's not all Sky News vs ABC -

Good article by Peter Hartcher - did Keating really put 'everything' into perspective?

King Keating sticks it to the world (theage.com.au)
 
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Sttew

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You are an ignorant backyarder. You have no idea of Australian history, let alone Chinese history. You can't even extrapolate the most obvious from statements made by current ALP members looking at an election within a few months.

I mean what do you reckon those on the ALP side would say? "Yeah Keating's right and here you go, we've just handed the desperado Morrison with his wedge"? Is that what you reckon anyone with half a brain from the ALP side would say? hahahahahahahaaa the only ones doing the laughing around here are the ones reading your drivel and wondering how, with our education system, there are still people like you!

Your hero, the moron Supremacist Morrison, is so, so reflective of the idiots that follow him that he thought that he could stand up in front of the cameras and say that what a private citizen of Australia, all be it one with enormous insights and an ex-Prime Minister, somehow speaks for the opposition and all he's done is make himself look even more of an arse than what he already is. He is truly reflective of his vacuous followers and acolytes.

Privately, many, many people within the ALP completely agree with Keating but do you reckon they would be so stupid as to publicly endorse Keating's remarks at this stage of the political cycle? Just quietly, there are many on the Liberal side and in the farming sector, you know, the ones with some brains, unlike the imbeciles like Morrison, that agree wholeheartedly with Keating.

When Morrison and his lot of disgusting dross are turfed out at the next election, it'll be the ALP who will AGAIN restore our reputation and drag us into the the third decade of the 21st century and then put us miles in front of the rest whilst you flatearthers and knuckdraggers, scamper around looking for another hero to attack another boogie man.

Meanwhile, those with a modicum of intelligence, will have a good belly laugh at the defenders of John Howard's continued justification of Afghanistan and Iraq and not issuing an apology to Aboriginals, "children overboard", deliberately undermining the United Nations in which we played a critical role in establishing, only to completely disregard the wishes of the United Nations and participate in an illegal invasion of a sovereign country .......... yep we'll keep laughing at you for denigrating an Australian patriot whilst you and your lot suck up to the UnAustralians like Morrison, Howard and Abbott.
FMD. Someone posts something that you don’t like and you resort to vitriol, calling me an ignorant backyarder. And yet you vote Labor without question?
 

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Number37

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but Richard Marles is within reason to say his views on the matter are not in line with the ALP's contemporary position...


If you did watch his address then you would know that PK himself said his views are not in line with the ALP's contemporary position.
That was part of the reason that he chose to give an address to the NPC for the first time in more than 20 years.
 

ExcitementMachine

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If you did watch his address then you would know that PK himself said his views are not in line with the ALP's contemporary position.
That was part of the reason that he chose to give an address to the NPC for the first time in more than 20 years.

Im not a silverspooner like yourself and have to get my hands dirty and work 50 hour plus weeks so forgive me for tying to keep up to date with events as best I can and that I got some minor very peripheral detail i my post that was not 100 per.cent accurate.

Is there anything that I posted that you disagree with?
 

Number37

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Im not a silverspooner like yourself and have to get my hands dirty and work 50 hour plus weeks so forgive me for tying to keep up to date with events as best I can and that I got some minor very peripheral detail i my post that was not 100 per.cent accurate.

Is there anything that I posted that you disagree with?

There's a lesson for you, don't parrot stuff the media says.

If you can't even get basic facts right then your analysis is worthless.
 

Northalives

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OP needs to settle down. He goes off on tangents and it's like he's trying to be a stand up comedian or something.
He flicks a lot of mud at the LNP - and a lot of it is valid, but not relevant to the subject - He has a propensity to go off on angry rants without taking a breath and being unable to see the nuance rooted from him splashing in the mud of the culture wars and his hatred of Sky News.

Paul Keating was a visionary - some say Australia's best Prime Minister - but Richard Marles is within reason to say his views on the matter are not in line with the ALP's contemporary position.

Some posters complain about the culture wars 'bullshit', but can't see that they encapsulate it. What's also lost is the nuance to the media landscape - it's not all Sky News vs ABC -

Good article by Peter Hartcher - did Keating really put 'everything' into perspective?

King Keating sticks it to the world (theage.com.au)

Just like Keating - I suspect the OP is old - and living in the 20th century.
Peter Hartcher is a harlot. He get's fed stories by Politicians and others with an agenda and just regurgitates them. Without Kevin Rudd and Julie Bishop and other politicians and flunkeys, he'd be redundant.

Unfortunately, you are the one that's clinging onto the 20th Century and have this delusion that Western hegemony is going to last forever - it ain't and we are seeing it's decline now because it's eating itself and stlll playing with itself.

If you can bare it, read this: https://www.michaelwest.com.au/obno...s-herald-and-age-coverage-of-his-china-views/
 

ExcitementMachine

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Peter Hartcher is a harlot. He get's fed stories by Politicians and others with an agenda and just regurgitates them. Without Kevin Rudd and Julie Bishop and other politicians and flunkeys, he'd be redundant.

Unfortunately, you are the one that's clinging onto the 20th Century and have this delusion that Western hegemony is going to last forever - it ain't and we are seeing it's decline now because it's eating itself and stlll playing with itself.

If you can bare it, read this: https://www.michaelwest.com.au/obno...s-herald-and-age-coverage-of-his-china-views/

Can you calm down?
Where talking about Australia asean and China - and you're jumping the shark accusing others of yearning for Western hegemony.

You are the OP and have put all your chips in Keating's corner, whatever you think of hartcher he uses geopolitical facts that rebukes yours and Keatings position.

Stan grant wrote an article that claims white people invented racism. He runs a program on woke ABC who are giving us a real insight of china and Chinese, - after their state run media had gone rogue and claimed we were dog sh*t at the bottom of their shoe They need to protect their world view and stans that the whites are the bad guys. If it was a white nation behaving like.china such a program on the abc would be utterly offensive.

I know people very high up in the ccp - im going to be fine - but as a nation if thats what they think of us then thats a big wake up call, let's make more allies in the asean region is my position.


PS why would a Paul Keating article be hard reading for me - I'm a big fan of him - he was a visionary and he's absolutely right that Asia is our bread and butter - but the World has gone in a different direction since 1995 and so has politics in Australia. You're very much a member of the 'progressive left - obsessed by identity politics.

Some hard reading and self reflection for you.

Educational divide over identity and class threatens to split the modern left (theage.com.au)
 
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Northalives

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Can you calm down?
Where talking about Australia asean and China - and you're jumping the shark accusing others of yearning for Western hegemony.

You are the OP and have put all your chips in Keating's corner, whatever you think of hartcher he uses geopolitical facts that rebukes yours and Keatings position.

Stan grant wrote an article that claims white people invented racism. He runs a program on woke ABC who are giving us a real insight of china and Chinese, - after their state run media had gone rogue and claimed we were dog sh*t at the bottom of their shoe They need to protect their world view and stans that the whites are the bad guys. If it was a white nation behaving like.china such a program on the abc would be utterly offensive.

I know people very high up in the ccp - im going to be fine - but as a nation if thats what they think of us then thats a big wake up call, let's make more allies in the asean region is my position.

Oh and take a valium would you, you're rants are showing signs of someone who needs the CATT team called in.

PS why would a Paul Keating article be hard reading for me - I'm a big fan of him - he was a visionary and he's absolutely right that Asia is our bread and butter - but the World has gone in a different direction since 1995 and so has politics in Australia. You're very much a member of the 'progressive left - obsessed by identity politics.

Some hard reading and self reflection for you.

Educational divide over identity and class threatens to split the modern left (theage.com.au)
No, I won't calm down at fools who go off spouting all sorts of sh*t because they have absolutely no ides what the f**k they are talking about. You and your mate's 19th century imperialist dogma is the type of thing that will destroy our economy and our reputation all over the world but you don't seem to give a f**k about that. All you are interested in is pushing the case for China bad, Australia/USA good, the same type of simplistic sh*t that holds us back from resuming our place as a respected country the world over.

You and the imbecile Morrison types make Australia the dog sh*t that is on the bottom of China's shoe and if you think that we aren't capable of being that, just wait until the world's economy starts to chug along again and just see where we are when China and Europe treat as like a steaming pile of sh*t and won't come near us with a ten foot poll. When our inflation and unemployment starts going north and the bullshit housing bubble that is synonymous with LNP governments bursts, and it will, spectacularly, when we are destitute as a country, who's going to buy our goods? Who's going to trade with us? Not the nations, specifically China, that we relied upon to keep us out of the Global Financial Crisis along with the great economic management of the ALP.

You are a captive of far-right ideological simplicity. You can't even extrapolate what Grant was saying in his article for heaven's sake! You took it as a polemic when it was nothing of the sort but a mere contribution to why we may think the way we do and your, "You're very much a member of the 'progressive left - obsessed by identity politics.", just shows how ridiculously shallow you are. You invoke the frivolity of throw away lines and descriptions as set out in the playbook of the brainless when they can't or don't know how to mount an argument. All you can offer up as a rebuttal of what Keating and others who are avid watchers of China and Geo-politics in general, is to tell us how offended you are because someone said we are sh*t at the bottom of their shoe and that is enough for you to demonise them, throw your skirt over your head and parrot the ludicrous proposal that we are on the brink of war with China; that China is somehow hellbent on ruling the world - idiotic and shrill protests because China is better at Capitalism than Uncle Sam and it's bootlicker, Australia.
 

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catscollector

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That was utterly pathetic by Penny Wong yesterday.
I hope the majority of Aussie's were ashamed by her comments.
 

Northalives

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Yeah, she needed to be like Dutton: "Kill those slant eyes! Let's go to war!!".
 

Rob R

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Yeah, she needed to be like Dutton: "Kill those slant eyes! Let's go to war!!".
Thats the way, Dutton raises concerns felt by many in response to Xis childish tantrums and aggression and since you cant challenge the facts you call racist. I wonder what the unarmed Indian soldiers murdered at Xi's command, the Philippines fisherman whose waters have been stolen by force, the Japanese who Xis propaganda machine has threatened to nuke or the peaceful Taiwanese he has threatened to kill in their millions think.

On SM-G570F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Gough

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Thats the way, Dutton raises concerns felt by many in response to Xis childish tantrums and aggression and since you cant challenge the facts you call racist. I wonder what the unarmed Indian soldiers murdered at Xi's command, the Philippines fisherman whose waters have been stolen by force, the Japanese who Xis propaganda machine has threatened to nuke or the peaceful Taiwanese he has threatened to kill in their millions think.

On SM-G570F using BigFooty.com mobile app
Plenty of Afghans and Iraqis might giggle behind their hands when we in the west talk of Chinese tyranny. Difference between us and the Chinese are our Xis are still wannabe, you don't think the likes of Dutton look at him with more than a little envy.
 

Rob R

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Plenty of Afghans and Iraqis might giggle behind their hands when we in the west talk of Chinese tyranny. Difference between us and the Chinese are our Xis are still wannabe, you don't think the likes of Dutton look at him with more than a little envy.
We certainly are not innocent ourselves but does past behaviour by other nations excuse aggresssion and abhorrent breaches of human rights against tens of millions now? Although everyone including Hitler pails in comparison to the 90.million
plus Chinese killed by the CCP.

On SM-G570F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Ned_Flanders

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Thats the way, Dutton raises concerns felt by many in response to Xis childish tantrums and aggression and since you cant challenge the facts you call racist. I wonder what the unarmed Indian soldiers murdered at Xi's command, the Philippines fisherman whose waters have been stolen by force, the Japanese who Xis propaganda machine has threatened to nuke or the peaceful Taiwanese he has threatened to kill in their millions think.

On SM-G570F using BigFooty.com mobile app

How do we win this war you want?
 

Schneebly11

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This quote I found interesting:

Yun Jiang, a China scholar from the Australian National University, recently bemoaned the lack of diversity of opinion on China on ABC's Q+A. She said the foreign policy establishment is still dominated by a European point of view. As she said, the voices are too often "white".

It’s a difference in mindset and cultural traditions and philosophy.

Western culture values the individual, personal freedom and self success

Eastern culture values the society, collective freedom and group success.

It reminded me of an interview i saw with a Western commentator talking about China who said that eventually, once they’re exposed to American culture and media, and the stories of Washington, Jefferson and the founding fathers and their stories of liberty, they’ll fall in and value rights, personal freedoms and individual liberties, and then desire success for self as most important over any loyalty to family, as the West has.

As far as we can see the east hasn’t. An example is anti-vaxxer protests. Even though places like Singapore, the supposed most western Asian country, are supposedly “western style democracies” why aren’t there anti Vax protests? Even if small?

And in Australia, out of interest I watched a video posted about the anti Vax rally in Perth. Approx 10,000 people attended. According to stats 20% of Perth’s population is of Asian heritage, so roughly 2,000 should have been of asian heritage right? I counted perhaps 10?

It seems Eastern values and tradition are triumphing over western individual freedoms, even with “democracy” and western culture. Even Australians of Asian descent value collective societal protection over individual freedom to not choose to be vaccinated.
 
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Festerz

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The biggest current threat to Australia's security is from the Defence Minister himself.

In Peter Dutton we have a Defence Minister who is simply incapable of thinking rationally and in strategic terms for Australia's future. He is instead only interested in making irrational and deliberately provocative political statements for immediate effect aimed solely at the local audience.

Were Dutton to just restrict himself to megaphone politics inherited from another era the damage could be easily rectified at the next election. Sadly for all Australians that mindless rhetoric has been coupled with irrational decision making that has exposed and severally weakened Australia's long term defence capability.

The irony here is that it is those who have been deliberately triggered by Dutton's anti-China rhetoric and who feel Australia is under real threat from an aggressive China who should be most alarmed at the decisions taken by Dutton in relation to Australia's defence capabilities.

On the ABC 730 Report last night, Dutton pointed out that China is going to have more than 400 submarines in the near future - the clear implication that this posed a serious threat to Australia's security. This is the same Defence Minister who, just months out from the next Federal election, has cancelled the multi billion dollar upgrade of our maritime defence capability and replaced it with a serious of meetings to be held over the next 12 months to consider the scope, design and budget for 6-8 submarines that will not hit the water until at least thirty years from now and by then will be hopelessly out of date.

The huge disconnect between Dutton's (and Morrison's) deliberately provocative khaki election rhetoric and their on-hold defence budget planning decisions is staggering.
 

Gethelred

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Can you calm down?
Where talking about Australia asean and China - and you're jumping the shark accusing others of yearning for Western hegemony.

You are the OP and have put all your chips in Keating's corner, whatever you think of hartcher he uses geopolitical facts that rebukes yours and Keatings position.

Stan grant wrote an article that claims white people invented racism. He runs a program on woke ABC who are giving us a real insight of china and Chinese, - after their state run media had gone rogue and claimed we were dog sh*t at the bottom of their shoe They need to protect their world view and stans that the whites are the bad guys. If it was a white nation behaving like.china such a program on the abc would be utterly offensive.

I know people very high up in the ccp - im going to be fine - but as a nation if thats what they think of us then thats a big wake up call, let's make more allies in the asean region is my position.

Oh and take a valium would you, you're rants are showing signs of someone who needs the CATT team called in.

PS why would a Paul Keating article be hard reading for me - I'm a big fan of him - he was a visionary and he's absolutely right that Asia is our bread and butter - but the World has gone in a different direction since 1995 and so has politics in Australia. You're very much a member of the 'progressive left - obsessed by identity politics.

Some hard reading and self reflection for you.

Educational divide over identity and class threatens to split the modern left (theage.com.au)
You genuinely relish putting people into boxes to avoid listening to them.
 

Ned_Flanders

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Where did I say I want a war? We just need to call out bad behaviour and make it clear we oppose any attack on peaceful Taiwan.

On SM-G570F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Thats not what we are saying. Dutton has said on record we will send troops to Taiwan without reservation

we are not wagging a finger, we are saying we will in be in the war

so my question is, how do we win it?
 

ExcitementMachine

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No, I don't. I've had a crack at Northalives before when I felt he was out of line.

You said this:

... which is pretty low. You're openly asking another person if they're disabled because they disagree with you angrily.

Not to mention, you've pigeon-holed, demonized and abused me before. Do you think you could stop so wildly throwing accusations around as though there was a sale of strawmen at your house?

And you think I have a problem with you - and I have an obsession with you. Stop stalking me, following me around - no-one wants to read what's in the grey zone - he said- she said bullshit. I'm actually very reasonable most of the time - look you obviously got massive bias, just follow through with your threat and put me on ignore.

I know Chinese Billionaires, greens voters, Indigenous peoples, University lecturers from all walks of life - and it's a real shame that my life experiences which is amazing and so applicable to the SRP board that you and others can learn from which is a reflection of society and Australia that is as rich and as worldly as the wonderful people in my life should be canceled because you don't like it or my experiences of what the real world's like and you suspect I'm a plant. Don't try and get me canceled like you do to others on twitter - quit your obsession with me - and put me on ignore. The world will still spin and the sun will rise it will be OK.

I'm not an idiot as you once claimed, I don't vote against my self interests and vote ALP - and also consider my vote with morals and integrity, as I try to live my life.
 
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