Society/Culture Australia Day - Date Change

Should the date change

  • Yes

    Votes: 36 62.1%
  • No

    Votes: 24 41.4%

  • Total voters
    58

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Carringbush2010

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And this event is truly a government event. It’s odd that it’s often people who think they are independent thinkers line up for these trinkets from the ruling class.
And the problem is the 'optic', if you watched / listened to the boy from marketing's speech it is intended to be as inclusive of everyone as it gets. But no one buys it coz it's from Scotty even if he really really did mean what he said.

So the real problem is not the date itself, it's how the 'day' comes across. It comes across as 'rule Britannia and all and sundry should be thankful' even if in the last decade or so there's been a deliberate shift of narrative from that 'Britannia' optic.

I dunno maybe just maybe there is no appeasing our indigenous (or at least a small minority of them).
 

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parsons nose

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And this event is truly a government event. It’s odd that it’s often people who think they are independent thinkers line up for these trinkets from the ruling class.
I’m probably the last person who should be weighing in on this, as whilst I believe in the basic functions of the nation state, I certainly don’t support all of the policies the nation state advances. Given the national holiday is a construct promoted by the nation state to advance the notion of cohesion, the irony of the tensions over the date on which it should be held, is not lost on me.
 

ferball

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Do you Have any article links? I would be interested to read.

i can see the postives for mental health given humans evolved to live as hunter gatherers in small groups. Especially in the short term. there is, however, also physical health. it would also need to be measured on a long term basis where the mental aspects can change. Not in the first 6 months to 1 year when the novelty hasnt worn off and threats from sickness, drought and tribal warfare have yet to emerge.
Most of the links I just looked for are broken but they are associated with what is called the "Homelands Movement". I'll try and chase some more up for you.
 

ferball

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I was strongly in favour of a change a couple of years ago but now I'm not feeling it so much?

I still detest the flag waving nationalist part of the day, but I feel like the date change movement has by hijacked to a degree by self loathing white people. I want to hear from Indigenous people, not a left wing twitter loser.
Indigenous people have been calling it Invasion day sincce last century.
 

ferball

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And why should that be a celebration?

Shouldn't we be celebrating what we are now? Something more positive? Instead of highlighting genocide?

I'm not advocating forgetting completely that Britain is the founder of our nation, but how about we celebrate the who and where we are now? That means ALL Australians of all backgrounds.

Agreed changing the date won't change much, but changing the way we celebrate Australia day just might.
And this is why so many blackfellas are opposed to it. Because we now lock up indigenous kids at a ridiculous rate, over police their communities and then blame all that on their violence and uncontrollable sexual abuse.
 

Chief

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And this is why so many blackfellas are opposed to it. Because we now lock up indigenous kids at a ridiculous rate, over police their communities and then blame all that on their violence and uncontrollable sexual abuse.
While pretending they are allowed to walk on water and get all sorts of free sh*t they don't deserve.
 

Snake_Baker

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Let's not delude ourselves that this subject is just another domino on the road to complete aboriginal sovereignty and autonomy.

Recognition-->destruction of unifying national cultural definitions-->Treaty-->Land--> Complete autonomy.

Australia is now a collection of independent tribal areas.

There's an immediate "next" in this path, once one step is achieved, and where it ultimately ends, who knows?
 

ferball

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Let's not delude ourselves that this subject is just another domino on the road to complete aboriginal sovereignty and autonomy.

Recognition-->destruction of unifying national cultural definitions-->Treaty-->Land--> Complete autonomy.

Australia is now a collection of independent tribal areas.

There's an immediate "next" in this path, once one step is achieved, and where it ultimately ends, who knows?
And?
 

Carringbush2010

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And this is why so many blackfellas are opposed to it. Because we now lock up indigenous kids at a ridiculous rate, over police their communities and then blame all that on their violence and uncontrollable sexual abuse.
Getting a little off topic, the reason for the over incarcerations and over policing is not solely the blame of the white fella.

Some responsibility has to be taken upon the individual themselves as they are citizens of this country and are obliged to follow its laws.

And what you've said here and how you've put it across is why the crusty old white conserves get their back up. When one says 'too many locked up' without any responsibility put on part of the individual how do you think that looks? It comes across as a perpetrator is a victim purely because they're aboriginal and that's the narrative to them.

Changing the date or not changing the date will do zero to arrest the problems you've outlined here. So I'm not really bothered one or the other if we change it.
 

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Carringbush2010

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Let's not delude ourselves that this subject is just another domino on the road to complete aboriginal sovereignty and autonomy.

Recognition-->destruction of unifying national cultural definitions-->Treaty-->Land--> Complete autonomy.

Australia is now a collection of independent tribal areas.

There's an immediate "next" in this path, once one step is achieved, and where it ultimately ends, who knows?
Drawing a long bow here.

You make it sound like every single Aboriginal person is in a conspiracy to overthrow the liberal democratic society we are currently in via long term stealth and brain wash of the 'whities'.

Even if that were true, it's not happening in the next 5 minutes.
 

Snake_Baker

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Drawing a long bow here.

You make it sound like every single Aboriginal person is in a conspiracy to overthrow the liberal democratic society we are currently in via long term stealth and brain wash of the 'whities'.

Even if that were true, it's not happening in the next 5 minutes.
Nah, I'm not.

You're tripping if you think this stops at the changing of a public holiday. It's agitators are going all the way.
 

ferball

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Getting a little off topic, the reason for the over incarcerations and over policing is not solely the blame of the white fella.

Some responsibility has to be taken upon the individual themselves as they are citizens of this country and are obliged to follow its laws.

And what you've said here and how you've put it across is why the crusty old white conserves get their back up. When one says 'too many locked up' without any responsibility put on part of the individual how do you think that looks? It comes across as a perpetrator is a victim purely because they're aboriginal and that's the narrative to them.

Changing the date or not changing the date will do zero to arrest the problems you've outlined here. So I'm not really bothered one or the other if we change it.
I think it is. By definition.

There a whole lot of stats, for example in australia over half the juvenile detention population is an indigenous kid. 60% of the population are awaiting trial or sentencing and only 40% are serving a sentence. In the NT there are no non indigenous kids in detention. We saw what happened at Don Dale. Is it really reasonable to believe that in the entire Northern Territory the only kids worth locking up are blackfellas?

A decade ago in 2010 this happened:


pretty sure all of those people have been out for five years.

Yay Australia.
 

Carringbush2010

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Nah, I'm not.

You're tripping if you think this stops at the changing of a public holiday. It's agitators are going all the way.
Snake, normally I view you as a practical poster. What you're talking about here is a slippery slope argument, at treacle speed no less.

The impression you give is that it's another step toward total decolonization.

If that is what is actually going on, then that would take every single Aboriginal person to conspire to that end. In order for that to happen the whole rest of the population would need to be subject to brain wash by stealth. That would take centuries mate and every single non Aboriginal person to be very f*n stupid.

You're trippin if you think this is even remotely possible.
 

Carringbush2010

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I think it is. By definition.

There a whole lot of stats, for example in australia over half the juvenile detention population is an indigenous kid. 60% of the population are awaiting trial or sentencing and only 40% are serving a sentence. In the NT there are no non indigenous kids in detention. We saw what happened at Don Dale. Is it really reasonable to believe that in the entire Northern Territory the only kids worth locking up are blackfellas?

A decade ago in 2010 this happened:


pretty sure all of those people have been out for five years.

Yay Australia.
Mate, you're advocating a teen Aboriginal boy who beats the sh*t out of his sister is solely the fault of the 'white fella'. You're not looking at the cause of those incarcerations, you're purely giving the impression it's the 'white fellas fault coz white' without laying any responsibility on the individual as to why they are incarcerated.

That is offensive and just plain wrong, and people wonder why people get pissed off with this narrative.

You can't be taken seriously with this attitude, please don't reply.
 

Snake_Baker

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Snake, normally I view you as a practical poster. What you're talking about here is a slippery slope argument, at treacle speed no less.

The impression you give is that it's another step toward total decolonization.

If that is what is actually going on, then that would take every single Aboriginal person to conspire to that end. In order for that to happen the whole rest of the population would need to be subject to brain wash by stealth. That would take centuries mate and every single non Aboriginal person to be very f*n stupid.

You're trippin if you think this is even remotely possible.

So you're claiming that all this stuff is about changing one national day and then it all stops? Seriously?

.........and by christ, how on earth is it "offensive"?!

Can EVERYTHING ON EARTH that you don't agree with now be ratified under the term OFFENSIVE?!

Can you understand how ridiculous this makes any discourse whatsoever?

You're trippin if you think this is even remotely possible.
I never stated it was going to happen, I stated that it was a genuine agenda of the radicals that stoke this fire, and that is a certified fact.
 

Snake_Baker

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Mate, you're advocating a teen Aboriginal boy who beats the sh*t out of his sister is solely the fault of the 'white fella'. You're not looking at the cause of those incarcerations, you're purely giving the impression it's the 'white fellas fault coz white' without laying any responsibility on the individual as to why they are incarcerated.

That is offensive and just plain wrong, and people wonder why people get pissed off with this narrative.

You can't be taken seriously with this attitude, please don't reply.

You should always ask posters what percentage "aboriginal" they are, then ask them how much responsibility they take for this.

It's a bullshit deflection.
 

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