Australia has pulled out of the U19 World Cup

[Hawker81]

I was just making a point, that violence can happen anywhere, and requires more nuance than simply listing some violent incidents. As mentioned in my post, there was a terrorist attack at Lleytonstone station, but I don't automatically assume that London is unsafe for travel.

I'm probably in favour of cancelling the tour, only because of the backlash that would happen if something did happen, but given the number of other teams going, the level of security being provided, the fact the Socceroos were over there recently, I think it might be something of an overreaction.

Yes I'm more than aware that violence can happen anywhere, and there was another terrorist attack last night in Paris, but thankfully the police shot him before he hurt anyone. I'm also aware that London has been a target, and you listed one that happened recently, but Bangladesh has had a lot more recent terrorist attacks and the level of risk is much higher in Bangladesh than in London.

 

[JackOutback]

The comparison with the Socceroos in my opinion is nowhere near relevant - one is an extended tour - one a fly in fly out one off game. On tour you cannot keep players cooped up in hotels all the time - for a one off game absolutely. I'm stunned that people don't share any concern for the players. Yep - there is risk in everything but when you have credible intelligence suggesting to you that the risk is too high and the families of consular staff have been sent home, surely it's the right decision based in the information available. I'm no fan of CA or Sutherland, but this was the only course of action acceptable.

I agree they are not entirely comparable, and yes, I have concerns for the players; I said I would probably err on the side of caution. But I also note that no other country is pulling out, that the 'targeting of Australian interests' is so far been rather ill-defined and not borne out by the targets of recent attacks. Australia didn't pull out of the Ashes in 2005 when a very serious terrorist attack occurred, I imagine they wouldn't even if London was again placed on a high security footing. I simply note that Bangladesh is being treated differently to how we would treat other, particularly Western, countries.

Given recent attacks and our high alert status, would we be so forgiving if countries refused to tour here?

 

[western royboy]

I agree they are not entirely comparable, and yes, I have concerns for the players; I said I would probably err on the side of caution. But I also note that no other country is pulling out, that the 'targeting of Australian interests' is so far been rather ill-defined and not borne out by the targets of recent attacks. Australia didn't pull out of the Ashes in 2005 when a very serious terrorist attack occurred, I imagine they wouldn't even if London was again placed on a high security footing. I simply note that Bangladesh is being treated differently to how we would treat other, particularly Western, countries.

Given recent attacks and our high alert status, would we be so forgiving if countries refused to tour here?

It's up to each county to make its or call on what they do. If a team did not want to tour here under the same circumstances - that's fine with me.

 

[JackOutback]

It's up to each county to make its or call on what they do. If a team did not want to tour here under the same circumstances - that's fine with me.

Yeah, but could you imagine the Hun headlines

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Get the feeling we'll never tour Pakistan or Bangladesh again

 

[western royboy]

Yeah, but could you imagine the Hun headlines

Like I give a s**t what Rupert Murdoch thinks

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

I think Cricket Australia has made a responsible decision in regard to player safety and this decision should be supported.

 

[Slax]

A fact? Here's some facts for you, since September 2015 the following have occurred in Bangladesh. I know which country I'd rather visit.

• on the evening of 28 September, an Italian citizen was shot and killed in Road 90 of the Gulshan diplomatic zone in Dhaka. How is this terrorist related? Australians get killed in the USA & South East Asia all the time and not deemed terrorist related. So simply a BS excuse.
  
  
• on the morning of 3 October a Japanese citizen was shot and killed in Rangpur district, in Northern Bangladesh. How is this terrorist related? Australians get killed in the USA & South East Asia all the time and not deemed terrorist related. So simply a BS excuse.
  
  
• in the early hours of 24 October a bomb attack on a large gathering by the Shia community in the Old City of Dhaka killed two people and injured many others. A knife attack at a police checkpoint in Dhaka on 4 November resulted in the death of one police officer. This is the whole Sunni v Shia problem that is occurring across large parts of the Islamic world and funded by Saudi Arabia & Qatar. In countries like Bangladesh they aren't interested in Western tourists, same thing as when the Sri Lanka civil war was happening.
  
  
• on Wednesday 18 November, an Italian national was shot and wounded in Dinjapur in the north-west of Bangladesh. How is this terrorist related? Australians get killed in the USA & South East Asia all the time and not deemed terrorist related. So simply a BS excuse.
  
  
• on 26 November an attack on a Shia mosque near Bogra in Northern Bangladesh killed one and wounded three. Attacks on mosques are an ethnic thing and are going to be restricted to mosques, so stay away from them and you're safe as houses. It is about knowing where to avoid.
  
  
• on 25 December an apparent suicide bombing took place in an Amadiyya mosque in Rajshahi, injuring a number of people. Attacks on mosques are an ethnic thing and are going to be restricted to mosques, so stay away from them and you're safe as houses. It is about knowing where to avoid.
  
  https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/bangladesh/terrorism Suggest you actually read through every country you might be in for a massive shock about the travel advice. France has more severe warnings than Bangladesh. So are you saying all Australians boycott France for safety reasons?

 

[Slax]

CA should run intelligence operations in Bangladesh?

CA should do there own research and not spew out lines from the Australian government, after all France has much higher travel warnings than Bangladesh but I don't hear of any travel bans there.

 

[JackOutback]

CA should do there own research and not spew out lines from the Australian government, after all France has much higher travel warnings than Bangladesh but I don't hear of any travel bans there.

Again, I'm not saying we should go, but this is what irks me. We issue travel bans to second and third world countries without a second thought, while Western countries that may have a higher level of risk don't get the same treatment. There's a certain cultural (racial?) superiority complex at play.

 

[Slax]

Again, I'm not saying we should go, but this is what irks me. We issue travel bans to second and third world countries without a second thought, while Western countries that may have a higher level of risk don't get the same treatment. There's a certain cultural (racial?) superiority complex at play.

Spot on.

What really gets me is that everyone else is going including England and they would be a much bigger target than Australia. We have chickened out and I believe part of the reason is that CA know we will be embarrassed there because of our complete and utter lack of experience on the sub-continent style pitches.

 

[Father Jack]

that makes less sense than most conspiracy theories, because this one is self defeating

 

[western royboy]

CA sent its own head of security to Bangladesh as they do with all overseas tours. He met with consular officials and security and intelligence officials. His recommendation was that the risk was too great and recommended we pull out. And so we did - I cannot see any conspiracy here.

 

[Torz]

Spot on.

What really gets me is that everyone else is going including England and they would be a much bigger target than Australia. We have chickened out and I believe part of the reason is that CA know we will be embarrassed there because of our complete and utter lack of experience on the sub-continent style pitches.

We're not going to get better if we don't play on these sorts of pitches more often. Especially at U19 level where the name of the game is experience. Hardly think they're worried about being embarrassed.

 

[Slax]

We're not going to get better if we don't play on these sorts of pitches more often. Especially at U19 level where the name of the game is experience. Hardly think they're worried about being embarrassed.

The tour of India will be a disaster and if we draw a test match it will be a good result, we have no experience at test level there.

 

[Hawker81]

• on the evening of 28 September, an Italian citizen was shot and killed in Road 90 of the Gulshan diplomatic zone in Dhaka. How is this terrorist related? Australians get killed in the USA & South East Asia all the time and not deemed terrorist related. So simply a BS excuse.
  
  
• on the morning of 3 October a Japanese citizen was shot and killed in Rangpur district, in Northern Bangladesh. How is this terrorist related? Australians get killed in the USA & South East Asia all the time and not deemed terrorist related. So simply a BS excuse.
  
  
• in the early hours of 24 October a bomb attack on a large gathering by the Shia community in the Old City of Dhaka killed two people and injured many others. A knife attack at a police checkpoint in Dhaka on 4 November resulted in the death of one police officer. This is the whole Sunni v Shia problem that is occurring across large parts of the Islamic world and funded by Saudi Arabia & Qatar. In countries like Bangladesh they aren't interested in Western tourists, same thing as when the Sri Lanka civil war was happening.
  
  
• on Wednesday 18 November, an Italian national was shot and wounded in Dinjapur in the north-west of Bangladesh. How is this terrorist related? Australians get killed in the USA & South East Asia all the time and not deemed terrorist related. So simply a BS excuse.
  
  
• on 26 November an attack on a Shia mosque near Bogra in Northern Bangladesh killed one and wounded three. Attacks on mosques are an ethnic thing and are going to be restricted to mosques, so stay away from them and you're safe as houses. It is about knowing where to avoid.
  
  
• on 25 December an apparent suicide bombing took place in an Amadiyya mosque in Rajshahi, injuring a number of people. Attacks on mosques are an ethnic thing and are going to be restricted to mosques, so stay away from them and you're safe as houses. It is about knowing where to avoid.
  
  https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/bangladesh/terrorism Suggest you actually read through every country you might be in for a massive shock about the travel advice. France has more severe warnings than Bangladesh. So are you saying all Australians boycott France for safety reasons?

Your first point that the Italian being killed wasn't a terrorist act is completely wrong, so I'm not going to bother to read the rest of of it. The Italian was specifically targeted because he was a westerner for political reasons, not a wrong place wrong time incident, or an armed robbery gone wrong. If that isn't terrorism, then what is?

"They carried out the murder to embarrass the government, to put the government under pressure and to create anarchy," Dhaka police commissioner Asaduzzaman Mia told reporters.

"So far what they've admitted to us is that they were not specifically targeting Cesare Tavella but their aim [was to] kill any white-skinned foreigner.

"Their big brother wanted to prove that Bangladesh is not safe for foreigners and if they could prove that, then it would put pressure on the government."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-26/four-held-in-bangladesh-over-italian-aid-worker-murder/6886344

 

[The_Reaper]

Again, I'm not saying we should go, but this is what irks me. We issue travel bans to second and third world countries without a second thought, while Western countries that may have a higher level of risk don't get the same treatment. There's a certain cultural (racial?) superiority complex at play.

Okay this might be a cultural thing.

Like my family is from a second/third world developing country (Malaysia). Like I'm the first generation to be born in Perth.

There is no racism about it. First world countries legitimately s**t over the second and third world in these kind of things.

And even when people complain about the corrupt government or corrupt systems of polices or fearmongering governments and Australia is so much better than the second and third world when it comes to that.

I think many people who grew up in a first world country and whose parents/grandparents etc grew up in a first world country take things for granted and don't realise how much better Australia is than most countries in the world.

 

[JackOutback]

Okay this might be a cultural thing.

Like my family is from a second/third world developing country (Malaysia). Like I'm the first generation to be born in Perth.

There is no racism about it. First world countries legitimately s**t over the second and third world in these kind of things.

And even when people complain about the corrupt government or corrupt systems of polices or fearmongering governments and Australia is so much better than the second and third world when it comes to that.

I think many people who grew up in a first world country and whose parents/grandparents etc grew up in a first world country take things for granted and don't realise how much better Australia is than most countries in the world.

s**t over, in what sense?

I was simply referring to the fact that we place travel bans on somewhere like Bangladesh but not France, despite the threat probably being much higher in France right now. Are you saying this is because we have more faith in the French to react accordingly and protect our citizens than, say, Bangladesh? That might be true, but at the same time, right now, there still probably remains a much more likely chance of something happening in France than Bangladesh to a travelling Australian (especially since so many more Australians travel to France).

Maybe it's not racial, but there seems to be a certain cultural superiority that assumes no matter the lengths a country like Bangladesh might go to, it will never be enough, whereas we would never assume that about England or France.

I say this as someone who has travelled pretty extensively, mostly to first world, but a few second and one third world country as well.

 

[The_Reaper]

s**t over, in what sense?

I was simply referring to the fact that we place travel bans on somewhere like Bangladesh but not France, despite the threat probably being much higher in France right now. Are you saying this is because we have more faith in the French to react accordingly and protect our citizens than, say, Bangladesh? That might be true, but at the same time, right now, there still probably remains a much more likely chance of something happening in France than Bangladesh to a travelling Australian (especially since so many more Australians travel to France).

Maybe it's not racial, but there seems to be a certain cultural superiority that assumes no matter the lengths a country like Bangladesh might go to, it will never be enough, whereas we would never assume that about England or France.

I say this as someone who has travelled pretty extensively, mostly to first world, but a few second and one third world country as well.

s**t over in every-way - government actually giving a s**t about citizens, security is better, government institutions are highly trustworthy.

When France offers security arrangements they can be trusted. Countries like Bangladesh have not demonstrated they can be.

And the cultural superiority is warranted because it's true.

 

[Slax]

Your first point that the Italian being killed wasn't a terrorist act is completely wrong, so I'm not going to bother to read the rest of of it. The Italian was specifically targeted because he was a westerner for political reasons, not a wrong place wrong time incident, or an armed robbery gone wrong. If that isn't terrorism, then what is?

"They carried out the murder to embarrass the government, to put the government under pressure and to create anarchy," Dhaka police commissioner Asaduzzaman Mia told reporters.

"So far what they've admitted to us is that they were not specifically targeting Cesare Tavella but their aim [was to] kill any white-skinned foreigner.

"Their big brother wanted to prove that Bangladesh is not safe for foreigners and if they could prove that, then it would put pressure on the government."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-26/four-held-in-bangladesh-over-italian-aid-worker-murder/6886344

Hawker81 I will then just ask the final question again for you.

If CA are using the foreign affairs warning as an excuse then why are Australian sporting teams boycotting France? The terrorist threat alert in France is the highest of any country not directly in conflict zones. A police state of emergency currently exists.

So please confirm that you believe France should be avoided at all cost by Australian citizens.

 

[Slax]

s**t over in every-way - government actually giving a s**t about citizens, security is better, government institutions are highly trustworthy.

When France offers security arrangements they can be trusted. Countries like Bangladesh have not demonstrated they can be.

And the cultural superiority is warranted because it's true.

When Western governments refuse to send anyone there how can they prove the critics wrong. When you cancel tours to relatively safe countries because of security fears it means that the terrorist organisations are winning and growing stronger in their aims to drive fear into every kafar. This is what people just don't seem to realise, ISIS now is driving large parts of Australian foreign policy not our government.

When you let the terrorist dictate your actions in areas they do not have a direct presence then they won the battle.
To win the war you must take that back and show you are not afraid, unfortunately Australia is a reactive country and is no longer at the forefront of being a leading example to the world, instead just a sheep that will slowly follow the USA.

 

[The_Reaper]

When Western governments refuse to send anyone there how can they prove the critics wrong. When you cancel tours to relatively safe countries because of security fears it means that the terrorist organisations are winning and growing stronger in their aims to drive fear into every kafar. This is what people just don't seem to realise, ISIS now is driving large parts of Australian foreign policy not our government.

When you let the terrorist dictate your actions in areas they do not have a direct presence then they won the battle.
To win the war you must take that back and show you are not afraid, unfortunately Australia is a reactive country and is no longer at the forefront of being a leading example to the world, instead just a sheep that will slowly follow the USA.

This is about underage cricket. Not fighting terrorists

 

[Slax]

This is about underage cricket. Not fighting terrorists

This is about a national side, it's not milo cricket it is serious sport.

 

[The_Reaper]

This is about a national side, it's not milo cricket it is serious sport.

Would you be happy sending your teenage son to a place where intelligence says he is likely to be targeted by terrorists?

 

[Slax]

Would you be happy sending your teenage son to a place where intelligence says he is likely to be targeted by terrorists?

I would have no problem. Would you send your kids to France?