- Jun 21, 2009
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I haven't met anyone on under 90k for years
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Australia is OK
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In order to be enacted the bill needs to pass through both houses of parliament.
The coalition hold 35 Senate seats out of 72 so cannot pass legislation without approval from members of other parties. Common for bills to be amended in return for support.
While I don't agree with the bill per se, people are predictably up in arms about 'the rich' getting tax cuts and not the poor.
In the short term you get squat if you are 'rich'. The $1,080 rebate thing applies to people earning $48,000-$90,000 and reduces to zero between $90k and $126k. Is more money in the pockets of people earning $50k, $60k a bad thing? Over time the brackets and rates will be adjusted. Eventually all income between $45,000 and $200,000 will be taxed at 30%. When you adjust the brackets and rates at the bottom that filters through to the top, that's how a progressive tax system works. It's arguably fairer to just lift the tax free threshold from $18k to say $25k or $30k but that would benefit all taxpayers and then people would want the 'rich' paying more...
Government's $158b tax cut plan passes Senate
The government's $158 billion tax package has passed the Senate after securing the necessary support from L...
SM
Bigfooty Legend
I just outlined why I'm not.
I'm confused by posters in here. My partner and I are on roughly 96k combined before tax. We live quite well off and go on an annual holiday and splurge. We don't have to budget. We have money left over every fortnight to save. Don't know what I'm doing differently to others.
- Sep 27, 2014
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Probably not living in a North Shore bubble.
But I did read an article about people on six figures not feeling rich because at work they're more likely to regularly interact with people who are indisputably rich.
One interesting thing, says Dr Jill Sheppard, lecturer in the School of Politics and International Relations at the Australian National University, is that people in the middle of the income range know they are in the middle, “but people at the fringes get it wrong”.
“Those who are making a lot of money – $90,000 to $150,000 – don’t realise how well off they are,” she says.
It’s easy to see why. The middle covers a relatively small range of income – from about $40,000 to $80,000. In all likelihood, if you are in that range, so are those in your social circle, give or take $20,000. But once you get above that level, it’s very different. The top 10 per cent of the income scale encompasses a much broader range of income – from $94,000 to Gina Rinehart.
So if you’re earning, say, $100,000, you are likely working and socialising with people whose income and wealth are multiples of yours. In monkey terms, you’re in the cage adjoining the grape eaters.
And that is apt to make you feel poorer than you are. As the social researcher Rebecca Huntley noted in a blog for MLC last year, the result is that 60 per cent of households with incomes of about $145,000 misidentified themselves as being middle class.
They considered a middle-class lifestyle to include annual overseas trips, private schools and expensive extracurricular activities for their children, regular dining out, new cars and the latest household technology. All the while, they complained about the cost of living.
These people are rich, but no politician dares tell them, for fear of being resented.
In 2006, Maserati sold 107 cars in Australia. Last year, the Italian brand sold 483, an almost fivefold increase. Sales of other luxury cars have also enjoyed booming sales over the past decade. Porsche sales quadrupled to 4434. Audi went from 5770 to 24,258. BMW almost doubled to more than 28,000, and Mercedes-Benz more than doubled to more than 41,000. Add in Ferrari, Lamborghini, Rolls-Royce and you get about 100,000 sales, each one involving more money than 90 per cent of Australians earn in a year.
“Demand is very, very strong, particularly for what we call heavy metal – that is, stuff over $150,000,” says David McCarthy, senior manager, product, public relations and corporate communications for Mercedes.
“The traditional buyers are established business owners, but in the past few years we’ve seen small- to medium-sized business owners buying themselves expensive cars as a reward.”
Another noticeable trend among high-income earners, Sheppard says, is that they increasingly do not fit our customary measures of “class’’.
“Traditionally we’ve equated occupation with class,” she says. “But now tradespeople have started to make good money, and that is decoupling perceptions of class from occupation.”
That has wider social and political ramifications, as was recognised more than a decade ago by the then prime minister, John Howard. He realised a growing number of workers who had traditionally been Labor voters were in many ways natural conservatives, previously bound to Labor on financial grounds. But as their incomes grew, as ever more became independent contractors in a deregulated workplace, they were ripe for the wooing.
He called them “aspirational” voters. Tony Abbott also went out of his way to attract them. Remember “Tony’s tradies”?
More recently, though, many have found a new political home: One Nation.
As David Marr notes in his recent Quarterly Essay on Pauline Hanson’s party, its voters are not like the left-behind working poor who voted for Donald Trump. He cites data from the Australian Election Study held after the most recent federal election.
Most of the people who voted for Hanson had actually done quite well for themselves. They were half as likely to have gone to university, but twice as likely to have a trade qualification.
Interestingly, the highest percentage of self-identified members of the working class were One Nation supporters, at 66 per cent, compared with 45 for Labor, 46 for the Nationals and 32 per cent for the Liberal Party.
But perhaps their most telling demographic characteristic is that they are malcontented.
In response to the survey question: “How does the financial situation of your own household compare with what it was 12 months ago?”, 68 per cent of One Nation voters responded that it was worse. That compares with 25 per cent for Nationals voters, 27 for the Greens, 29 for Liberals and 38 for Labor.
And when asked about the state of the economy generally, they were even more pessimistic. Almost three-quarters – 73 per cent – thought it worse than a year ago.
And yet, as Marr notes, the Australian Election Study showed them to be marginally more prosperous than the average Australian.
Just when you thought Australians could not get any more deluded about their relative good fortune, along comes a whole new cohort of well-to-do whingers.
Our leaders really should tell them they have not got much to complain about. Although that seems unlikely: we’re still not ready to even talk about what “rich” means.
What counts as rich now?
The refusal of politicians to define ‘rich’ plays to a social confusion about how well off people actually are.www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au
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What do your expenses include?
- May 5, 2006
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I don't consider earning $100k p.a. as rich. Income rich isn't really a thing in Australia unless you earn multiples of the average Joe. The average AFL player earns about $350k and they're not out there buying Lamborghinis for cash and partying on super yachts.
Asset rich is where the real wealth disparity lies.
Asset rich is where the real wealth disparity lies.
SM
Bigfooty Legend
Who lives in a north shore bubble?
SM
Bigfooty Legend
96k after tax? That's basically what I live on. As I said I'm comfortable but I wouldn't say wealthy.
EDIT: Before tax I find it incredibly hard to believe you live comfortably in any sort of suburban area. $350-400 a week in rent for a one bedroom apartment is almost $20k a year, before power, gas, internet, food, and travel expenses.
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- Sep 27, 2014
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You guys with your non-stop talk about '90k isn't good money' or 'AFL players aren't rich' sit there watching Suits with your hand on your utensil?
SM
Bigfooty Legend
I'm amazed you're able to type with such a big chip on your shoulder.
Do you understand the concept of a progressive tax system and what it does to income?
- Jul 9, 2010
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Yeah and I support it mate, if anything it should be heavier. Don't give me oh woe anything. You acting like you're a victim while you and your new mate brag about income and name drop having a partner is ludicrous and actually offensive. The world is harsh and things are difficult for a lot of people. A full time job is a nice thing and 90k is a lot of money.
As I said: it's offensive. People toil for a lot less. I know this is all a big stroke but seriously, it is offensive to people who don't make much money.
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"90k is a pittance"
Jesus some people really lack social awareness. inner Croweaters being unleashed in here.
Jesus some people really lack social awareness. inner Croweaters being unleashed in here.
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I'm on 101k but don't feel particularly rich. I'm definitely comfortable but I'm not driving around in a Ferrari or anything. I have a nice house, but that's because in my region houses are a lot cheaper. My house cost me 400k. In the capitals it would have cost me a million.
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Why is everything so binary these days? There's a whole bunch of people called 'middle income earners' for a reason. They ain't rich, and they ain't poor.
$90k is an above average and above median wage. It's nothing to sneeze at but it's hardly sending Giles down to the market to buy the foie gras territory. If you can't survive off $90k then you need to seriously look at your expenditure. Maybe even check yo' privilege. But it's not 1% territory.
The old adage of 'if you're not a commy when you are young you have no heart, if you aren't a capitalist when you are old you have no brain' has some merit. I remember my weekly tax contribution being tens of dollars and then getting it all back in July anyway. Once you start paying thousands, multiple thousands, tens of thousands you start to get annoyed at people telling you how well off you are. I implore anyone who thinks 'tax the rich!' to go and and work away, do long hours in s**t conditions and then watch 30, 40, 50% of it get taken away by the govt. Might give them an appreciation of what it takes to get ahead of the game somewhat.
We have wayyyy bigger taxation problems than people earning $90k and only giving 20-30% of it to the govt.
$90k is an above average and above median wage. It's nothing to sneeze at but it's hardly sending Giles down to the market to buy the foie gras territory. If you can't survive off $90k then you need to seriously look at your expenditure. Maybe even check yo' privilege. But it's not 1% territory.
The old adage of 'if you're not a commy when you are young you have no heart, if you aren't a capitalist when you are old you have no brain' has some merit. I remember my weekly tax contribution being tens of dollars and then getting it all back in July anyway. Once you start paying thousands, multiple thousands, tens of thousands you start to get annoyed at people telling you how well off you are. I implore anyone who thinks 'tax the rich!' to go and and work away, do long hours in s**t conditions and then watch 30, 40, 50% of it get taken away by the govt. Might give them an appreciation of what it takes to get ahead of the game somewhat.
We have wayyyy bigger taxation problems than people earning $90k and only giving 20-30% of it to the govt.
SM
Bigfooty Legend
I'm... Not. I'm explaining why me on 85k and him on what sounds like 50k take home a similar amount after tax.
- Sep 27, 2014
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Nobody's losing 50% in income taxes, Liberal liar.
SM
Bigfooty Legend
You're literally responding to a post bemoaning people's binary approach to discussion by being binary.
49% if you want to be a stickler.
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* there's some boring campaigners on this forum.
- Sep 27, 2014
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Resident tax rates 2019–20
www.ato.gov.au
Not 50% or 49%. Not even close.
| Taxable income | Tax on this income |
|---|---|
| 0 – $18,200 | Nil |
| $18,201 – $37,000 | 19c for each $1 over $18,200 |
| $37,001 – $90,000 | $3,572 plus 32.5c for each $1 over $37,000 |
| $90,001 – $180,000 | $20,797 plus 37c for each $1 over $90,000 |
| $180,001 and over | $54,097 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000 |
Tax rates – Australian resident | Australian Taxation Office
Tax rates for Australian residents for income years from 2024 back to 1984.
Not 50% or 49%. Not even close.
