Australia v New Zealand 1st Test at Perth December 12-16

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Barlos Crathwaite said:
Obviously NZ isn't good enough for you if their best batsman is as bad as you say. Perhaps you'd be better off trolling the Indians
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I'm not trolling anyone here. I'm harsh on Kane and Root, both are grossly overrated. With Kane its worse because he plays for us and rarely steps up and performs to the level people talk him up to hence the bitterness of not living up to the hype and winning us big matches like Smith and Kohli do. There was a period around 2015 IIRC that he was fantastic and living up to the bill, even got to #1 in the ICC rankings. Its all been downhill from there aside from the odd blip here and there.
 
Vegeta said:
I'm not trolling anyone here. I'm harsh on Kane and Root, both are grossly overrated. With Kane its worse because he plays for us and rarely steps up and performs to the level people talk him up to hence the bitterness. There was a period around 2015 IIRC that he was fantastic and living up to the bill, even got to #1 in the ICC rankings but its all been downhill from there.
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A bloke who averages 52 in test cricket for NZ sounds like the start of a joke cos it's so utterly unlikely. Why you should spam up these boards criticising him is beyond me. Who's next? Sir Richard? Phar lap? NZ are such a team of no names and non performers he stands out like a beacon. At least my Bradman troll was owned by me when I got called on it. Don't get all sensitive when I call you on your bs troll. No one's buying it
 
Barlos Crathwaite said:
A bloke who averages 52 in test cricket for NZ sounds like the start of a joke cos it's so utterly unlikely. Why you should spam up these boards criticising him is beyond me. Who's next? Sir Richard? Phar lap? NZ are such a team of no names and non performers he stands out like a beacon. At least my Bradman troll was owned by me when I got called on it. Don't get all sensitive when I call you on your bs troll. No one's buying it
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It's not trolling lmao, I've been like this with Kane for years... Genuinely a frustrating player to support given the media hype around him.
 
Vegeta said:
It's not trolling lmao, I've been like this with Kane for years... Genuinely a frustrating player to support given the media hype around him.
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He's basically a god here in Oz. We would gladly give him heads spot. I'm sure England and SA would take him too. Why on earth don't you rate him? He can't help the hype? NZ probably get excited about anyone who could average over ten in test cricket lol
 
Vegeta said:
God forbid I be frustrated by our much vaunted star player who has the knack of flopping against the best away from home.

If he were Indian or Australian, he would be getting the same flak Warner and Pujara get for failing to perform away from home against top teams.
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Warner has earnt that criticism by being an objectively useless player outside of hard flat tracks. Pujara gets a pass for his Bradman efforts in oz. But Kane scores runs all the time against everyone. Were you not watching when he got multiple tons when you last toured here? Same bowlers as we have now but we had no chance of getting him out. It was disheartening
 
Barlos Crathwaite said:
He's basically a god here in Oz. We would gladly give him heads spot. I'm sure England and SA would take him too. Why on earth don't you rate him? He can't help the hype? NZ probably get excited about anyone who could average over ten in test cricket lol
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Idk I never saw him at that level most seem to, the whole steady the ship, best technique, among the best batsmen in the world etc.

It's too much for someone who's not that great. Sure he's good, great/amazing for NZ standards. But he's not great for world standards, I only really consider Smith and Kohli great - they score heavily and everywhere, they're the elite batsmen of the sport atm. Warner, Babar Azam, Marnus, Kane, Root etc. are two or three levels below them.
 
Barlos Crathwaite said:
Warner has earnt that criticism by being an objectively useless player outside of hard flat tracks. Pujara gets a pass for his Bradman efforts in oz. But Kane scores runs all the time against everyone. Were you not watching when he got multiple tons when you last toured here? Same bowlers as we have now but we had no chance of getting him out. It was disheartening
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That was during his golden run where he converted well and made it to #1 in the world, he never kicked on from there, it's all been downhill from there.

That was his peak, idk if he'll ever get close to it again.
 
Vegeta said:
Idk I never saw him at that level most seem to, the whole steady the ship, best technique, among the best batsmen in the world etc.

It's too much for someone who's not that great. Sure he's good, great for NZ standards. But he's not great for world standards, but I only really consider Smith and Kohli great - they score heavily and everywhere, they're the elite batsmen of the sport atm. Warner, Babar Azam, Marnus, Kane, Root etc. are two or three levels below them.
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Kane gets about half the matches those two get to play and he has to play with no name bits and pieces c.rap players aside from the rossinator and the human wrecking ball (Wagner). Give him some slack bro he's hands down the best you will ever produce. I would've thought there'd be about 9 other players who'd you'd be criticising before him??? Be truthful. He didn't call you back after your date right??? Or did he ding your car in the supermarket and not exchange insurance details? Lol
 

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Barlos Crathwaite said:
Kane gets about half the matches those two get to play and he has to play with no name bits and pieces c.rap players aside from the rossinator and the human wrecking ball (Wagner). Give him some slack bro he's hands down the best you will ever produce. I would've thought there'd be about 9 other players who'd you'd be criticising before him??? Be truthful. He didn't call you back after your date right??? Or did he ding your car in the supermarket and not exchange insurance details? Lol
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The others don't get much recognition and they've scored tough runs for us.

I actually like watching Taylor, Watling, Latham and CdG more, they score for us when we need it or are more entertaining to watch. Taylor looks scratchy early but he can fight out and see out the good balls. Watling is a warrior who has saved our asses so many times that I've lost count, Latham when he's in drives the ball really well. CdG is really underrated, has a great eye, he's our Rohit Sharma with the bat (obviously nowhere as good), strikes the ball exceptionally well and makes it look so effortless. People consider CdG a hack/bits and pieces cricketer, but I've seen him play some extraordinary shots which you'd expect from a proper batsmen. The issue with him is his defense and shot selection.

With Kane, he looks good then he gets a one or two good balls which don't arrive at him the way he expects and he's out - this happened twice this match (Lyon and the ball across from Starc, in the England series he got out to a ball that bounced higher than he expected). Its either that or that little dab to third man. So incredibly frustrating.

Tbf I don't hold them to the same standard as Kane. Kane is the one recognized as one of the best batsmen in the world, so he's got to have a great output, score 100s and win matches like the best batsmen in the world are currently doing.
 
Vegeta said:
The others don't get much recognition and they've scored tough runs for us.

I actually like watching Taylor, Watling, Latham and CdG more, they score for us when we need it or are more entertaining to watch. Taylor looks scratchy early but he can fight out and see out the good balls. Watling is a warrior who has saved our asses so many times that I've lost count, Latham when he's in drives the ball really well. CdG is really underrated, has a great eye, he's our Rohit Sharma with the bat (obviously nowhere as good), strikes the ball exceptionally well and makes it look so effortless. People consider CdG a hack/bits and pieces cricketer, but I've seen him play some extraordinary shots which you'd expect from a proper batsmen. The issue with him is his defense and shot selection.

With Kane, he looks good then he gets a one or two good balls which don't arrive at him the way he expects and he's out - this happened twice this match (Lyon and the ball across from Starc, in the England series he got out to a ball that bounced higher than he expected). Its either that or that little dab to third man. So incredibly frustrating.
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You need to have a chat to the Hamilton groundsman. I watched that match and it was the worst deck ever. Slow and low . Your team was on a hiding to nothing coming from that to Perth. You might find Kane needs a bit more time in the middle here to start producing big scores. Although as we are clearly talking about two different blokes I guess it's all moot anyway lol
 
Vegeta and Barlos Crathwaite
Good to see your discussion go from antagonistic to calmer and reasonable, goodonya both :thumbsu: (even if it was thread-distracting at times). Kudos.

Fwiw, my take on Williamson is that he's world-class; any Test side would welcome him with open arms (especially the Poms, who looooove 'recruiting' Internationals to claim as their own, lol). He gives himself that little bit of extra time to play the ball by playing so late, always in line and often right under his eyes, and always looks like he has time to change his shot/s which is the hallmark of a great batsman. I wish we had a #5 or #6 of his calibre.
Yeah, I'm dreamin' :rolleyes:, but we're doing really well with out Top 4 as is; I shouldn't be so greedy.
In the last Test, he didn't look like getting out until Smith's screamer intercepted his glide through third slip,
Smith screamer.jpeg
(nothing 'DROP' about that! :D ) and the ball from Lyon that jumped and turned on him so much would've dismissed many. BOUNCE got him, as it did several batsmen from both sides.
 
CrowBloke said:
Vegeta and Barlos Crathwaite
Good to see your discussion go from antagonistic to calmer and reasonable, goodonya both :thumbsu: (even if it was thread-distracting at times). Kudos.

Fwiw, my take on Williamson is that he's world-class; any Test side would welcome him with open arms (especially the Poms, who looooove 'recruiting' Internationals to claim as their own, lol). He gives himself that little bit of extra time to play the ball by playing so late, always in line and often right under his eyes, and always looks like he has time to change his shot/s which is the hallmark of a great batsman. I wish we had a #5 or #6 of his calibre.
Yeah, I'm dreamin' :rolleyes:, but we're doing really well with out Top 4 as is; I shouldn't be so greedy.
In the last Test, he didn't look like getting out until Smith's screamer intercepted his glide through third slip,
View attachment 795267
(nothing 'DROP' about that! :D ) and the ball from Lyon that jumped and turned on him so much would've dismissed many. BOUNCE got him, as it did several batsmen from both sides.
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Yep good call. Imo that's 100%correct. My frustration with the other poster was borne from my owning the obvious troll about Bradman and him not regarding Kane. But I've come to accept that he may not be trolling. He just doesn't rate the best player NZ will likely ever produce. Each to their own
 
Barlos Crathwaite said:
Who have NZ ever had that would be better than Kane?
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Richard Hadley. I also highly rate Vitori. If we go beyond tests to include shorter forms I would have McCullum before Williamson
 
Millky95 said:
Richard Hadley. I also highly rate Vitori. If we go beyond tests to include shorter forms I would have McCullum before Williamson
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You mean Richard Hadlee, Richard Hadley was a mediocre AFL player for Brisbane and Carlton.
 
Barlos Crathwaite said:
Yep good call. Imo that's 100%correct. My frustration with the other poster was borne from my owning the obvious troll about Bradman and him not regarding Kane. But I've come to accept that he may not be trolling. He just doesn't rate the best player NZ will likely ever produce. Each to their own
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Maybe Williamson's not as good as you think, but not as bad as he thinks? :)
This site has him at #1 (batsman)

list of best NZ batsmen - Google Search

www.google.com
Same mob have him at #7 of NZ's all-time best.

best nz cricketers of all time - Google Search

www.google.com

Yep, each to their own. "Best" is totally subjective, except maybe for Bradman who was head and shoulders the best batsman of all time. If I could time-travel, I'd go watch him bat.
(hey, what would you do, if you could time-travel? Please visit:
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...thread-what-if-you-could-time-travel.1233542/ ;))
 
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