Australia v New Zealand 1st Test at Perth December 12-16

Tugga27

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Vegeta

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Good to see your discussion go from antagonistic to calmer and reasonable, goodonya both :thumbsu: (even if it was thread-distracting at times). Kudos.

Fwiw, my take on Williamson is that he's world-class; any Test side would welcome him with open arms (especially the Poms, who looooove 'recruiting' Internationals to claim as their own, lol). He gives himself that little bit of extra time to play the ball by playing so late, always in line and often right under his eyes, and always looks like he has time to change his shot/s which is the hallmark of a great batsman. I wish we had a #5 or #6 of his calibre.
Yeah, I'm dreamin' :rolleyes:, but we're doing really well with out Top 4 as is; I shouldn't be so greedy.
In the last Test, he didn't look like getting out until Smith's screamer intercepted his glide through third slip,
View attachment 795267
(nothing 'DROP' about that! :D ) and the ball from Lyon that jumped and turned on him so much would've dismissed many. BOUNCE got him, as it did several batsmen from both sides.
Mate, he was out earlier - he got an edge early on his innings against Cummins IIRC, Smith appealed no one else did. Replays showed he nicked the ball.

So effectively 50 runs in 3 digs.

 
Who have NZ ever had that would be better than Kane?
When Martin Crowe died they put up test batting stats from when he made 188 against the Windies in Georgetown in 1985 as a 22 year old, and came of age, (as he had played 20 test and batted 33 times for only 902 runs), until the 1992 World Cup and he was on top of that list of 10 batsmen for the highest test averages for that 7 year period April 1985 to February 1992. I think he scored the 2nd or 3rd most hundreds on that list.

He then was the best batsman in the 1992 World Cup, made the most runs and had the highest or second highest average of players who made 200 runs or more.

I did a statsguru query and it produced the following to cover that period April 1985 to February 1992. The filtered stats cover that period. During those 7 years, one day cricket started to take over the international schedule and that's why NZ only played 39 tests. Australia and Alan Border played 64 in that 7 years. He scored 4,797 runs at 55.77 with 11 hundreds.



Career
SpanMatInnsNORunsHSAveBFSR1005004s6s
unfiltered1982-19957713111544429945.361219044.651718965927
filtered1985-199239659330329958.98734344.98121033778



Here you go, below is the statsguru query search for every player for those 7 years and Crowe is at the top when sorted by averages, equal 2nd most hundreds and the only batsmen who had made substantially more runs than Crowe in that 7 years, played between 11 and 25 more tests than him.



 
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Wedge McManus

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Maybe Williamson's not as good as you think, but not as bad as he thinks? :)
This site has him at #1 (batsman)
Same mob have him at #7 of NZ's all-time best.

Yep, each to their own. "Best" is totally subjective, except maybe for Bradman who was head and shoulders the best batsman of all time. If I could time-travel, I'd go watch him bat.
(hey, what would you do, if you could time-travel? Please visit:
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...thread-what-if-you-could-time-travel.1233542/ ;))
You sound far too logical to be posting here lol
 

CrowBloke

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Mate, he was out earlier - he got an edge early on his innings against Cummins IIRC, Smith appealed no one else did. Replays showed he nicked the ball.
Yeah, saw that. Lucky, for sure, but NOT out. Doesn't count. Look in the book. ;)
Aussies' fault, not his.
 
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It’s not exactly a revelation to anyone that watched him but with a full career Shane Bond had the potential to be their best player, or bowler at least (Hadlee had the bonus of being handy with the bat).

I once read that the hallmark of Dale Steyn’s quality was the fact that he could do everything James Anderson could, but 15km/h faster. That epitomises bond as well. And at a time when Australia’s one day side was supreme, Bond was the one bowler I can remember who genuinely had their number

44 wickets in 17 games at 15.

THAT is how good he was.
 

Wedge McManus

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It’s not exactly a revelation to anyone that watched him but with a full career Shane Bond had the potential to be their best player, or bowler at least (Hadlee had the bonus of being handy with the bat).

I once read that the hallmark of Dale Steyn’s quality was the fact that he could do everything James Anderson could, but 15km/h faster. That epitomises bond as well. And at a time when Australia’s one day side was supreme, Bond was the one bowler I can remember who genuinely had their number

44 wickets in 17 games at 15.

THAT is how good he was.
He was unbelievable. Late swing and genuine pace. I thought Adam Milne might challenge his status but he seems to be off the park more often than not unfortunately
 

Pykie

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It’s not exactly a revelation to anyone that watched him but with a full career Shane Bond had the potential to be their best player, or bowler at least (Hadlee had the bonus of being handy with the bat).

I once read that the hallmark of Dale Steyn’s quality was the fact that he could do everything James Anderson could, but 15km/h faster. That epitomises bond as well. And at a time when Australia’s one day side was supreme, Bond was the one bowler I can remember who genuinely had their number

44 wickets in 17 games at 15.

THAT is how good he was.

Yeah he was good, but he didn’t have longevity.

Adam Voges is statistically one of the best test batsmen of all time.

Sample size matters.
 

CrowBloke

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I get what you mean :thumbsu: .
Smith appealed, for sure --- with those ears, he'd hear a chip packet being opened in the Outer while in the changerooms under a belting shower.
Umpire not interested, but his teammates too.
Paine had access to DRS, ignored Smith's reaction.

Regardless, Williamson was not out and batted on. It took Smith's brilliant catch to get him later.
 

CrowBloke

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Many posters have rightly pointed out with annoyance and frustration that Travis Head gets himself in if not somewhat streakily, then gets himself out, usually flashing at something wide.

Comments re: Smith suggest he's in a form 'slump', or doesn't like waiting to bat, but I've seen him get out 4 times recently (once in the WC) pulling the ball between backward square and mid-wicket. What's more, he's not caught deep in the field, so it's not as if he's connected well with the ball.
I don't think it's a form 'slump', or due to waiting to bat --- the man has plenty of credits and could have TWO Warner-Ashes-series failures before even being considered to be dropped --- but isn't it either poor shot selection or execution?
I'm surprised he hasn't done a Steve Waugh and put that shot away.
Anybody?
 

Wedge McManus

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Many posters have rightly pointed out with annoyance and frustration that Travis Head gets himself in if not somewhat streakily, then gets himself out, usually flashing at something wide.

Comments re: Smith suggest he's in a form 'slump', or doesn't like waiting to bat, but I've seen him get out 4 times recently (once in the WC) pulling the ball between backward square and mid-wicket. What's more, he's not caught deep in the field, so it's not as if he's connected well with the ball.
I don't think it's a form 'slump', or due to waiting to bat --- the man has plenty of credits and could have TWO Warner-Ashes-series failures before even being considered to be dropped --- but isn't it either poor shot selection or execution?
I'm surprised he hasn't done a Steve Waugh and put that shot away.
Anybody?
Surely no one here is even slightly suggesting Smith is in a slump or struggling? He's just not making huge runs at the moment. Is BF really that fickle that it turns on cricket's best player if he doesn't score a ton every innings? I hope not
 

CrowBloke

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Surely no one here is even slightly suggesting Smith is in a slump or struggling? He's just not making huge runs at the moment. Is BF really that fickle that it turns on cricket's best player if he doesn't score a ton every innings? I hope not
Smith admitted himself that:
--- he really dislikes waiting around to bat and uses up a lot of nervous energy in the process, and
--- a few teams have got him out with short-pitched bowling (but I have no doubt he'll figure out a way to beat that --- Langer has said that Smith is the best batting problem-solver he's ever seen).
No intention to disparage BF or its posters, I meant only that some had talked a bout a form "slump", but mostly I've read the term in online articles.
We're so used to Smith batting for a long time and/or making big runs, it seems like a relative 'failure' if he's out in the 30's. 40's or less.
 
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