Test AUSTRALIA v SOUTH AFRICA Second Test. Dec 26-30, MCG, Melbourne. 10.30am AEDT.

[Pure_Ownage]

So because he’s the worst the others get a pass mark despite being clear failures at test level and clearly ALSO having mediocre first class records.

Right.

So if I was to single out how Darren Bravo isn’t getting a game for the West Indies atm, it would just be Kyle Mayers keeping him out of the side - not Nkrumah Bonner, Roston Chase, Sharmah Brooks, Devon Thomas. Is that how it works?

How is the logical change to just ‘drop Zondo’ - is that what it’s come to? Just drop the guy with the worst domestic record and the other failures get a free pass?

No but you cant realistically drop 6 at once (unless you have the depth of talent to bring 6 good players in) so you drop the lowest performer first which is zondo. Then you gradually drop all the others out over 12-24 months.

 

[Seedsfan]

No but you cant realistically drop 6 at once (unless you have the depth of talent to bring 6 good players in) so you drop the lowest performer first which is zondo. Then you gradually drop all the others out over 12-24 months.

A truly revolutionary concept that dropping the poorest performer

 

[doggies ftw]

So because he’s the worst the others get a pass mark despite being clear failures at test level and clearly ALSO having mediocre first class records.

Right.

So if I was to single out how Darren Bravo isn’t getting a game for the West Indies atm, it would just be Kyle Mayers keeping him out of the side - not Nkrumah Bonner, Roston Chase, Sharmah Brooks, Devon Thomas. Is that how it works?

How is the logical change to just ‘drop Zondo’ - is that what it’s come to? Just drop the guy with the worst domestic record and the other failures get a free pass?

What are you even arguing here ffs, no one has said the rest get a pass - just start with the obvious worst…

 

[PhatBoy]

There FC records are far better than Zondo’s use your eyes.

Should they get a pass no? But the worst performing player should always be the one in the gun first. You can’t keep rewarding somebody purely because of their race

They’re also far worse than the players they’ve been picked in front of. Use your eyes.

 

[PhatBoy]

What are you even arguing here ffs, no one has said the rest get a pass - just start with the obvious worst…

What am I arguing? How thick do you have to be to ask that question?

They have said ‘Zondo is keeping other players out of the team.’ Yeah, he might be. So are 4 other squad members who have been equally inept - and remember that Zondo himself has made a higher score this series than any of Erwee, RVDD, De Bruyn or Elgar for that matter and he did it while the rest of his side conjured up 63 runs between them - so why is it just him that’s keeping better credentialed players from the side?

 

[Blue1980]

Didn’t worry us last year with an eye on Pakistan

No reason not to do it

 

[Blue1980]

It's a really good team we are currently watching.

The really good teams destroy weak opposition.

They will have a chance to be regarded as one of the best Australian test teams ever over the next 18 months.

It’s probably about the standard of 90s australia at the moment, below godmode 99-07 team but still really good.

 

[Blue1980]

We have what one series win in india last 50 years? You can be a very good side and still not win in india, we aren't going to win in india nobody wins in india and we certainly dont have the batting to win.

A drawn series would be an excellent result really.

But the side is experienced, all played on subcontinent as well now. We aren’t without a chance to win, though it would take a few batsmen playing out of their skin. (We only had smith do that in 2017)

 

[doggies ftw]

What am I arguing? How thick do you have to be to ask that question?

They have said ‘Zondo is keeping other players out of the team.’ Yeah, he might be. So are 4 other squad members who have been equally inept - and remember that Zondo himself has made a higher score this series than any of Erwee, RVDD, De Bruyn or Elgar for that matter and he did it while the rest of his side conjured up 63 runs between them - so why is it just him that’s keeping better credentialed players from the side?

No one has said he’s the ONLY one keeping them out of the side - obviously the whole squad needs drastic changing but I’m not sure how often a teams going to drop 5 players it just doesn’t happen. But changes do need to be made, It’s not that hard to comprehend dropping the worst first I’m not sure what you can’t understand about that - he’s 32 he should have never been there in the first place with his record.

Personally for the next test I’d drop Zondo & Ngidi minimum (good bowler but has been hopeless here and is a net negative in the field) they’ve got enough of an attack without him. De Bruyn only stays as I can’t see them making 3 changes but in reality he should be gone too. As a starting point, again no team is swinging 5+ changes - start with the absolute deadwood and work from there

 

[Blue1980]

Old man rant...

I miss the traditional pitches. Drop ins have destroyed the local variety we used to enjoy around the country.

I miss 5 test series. Sure, the latest two might have been a chore but nothing beats it as a true contest.

Next time India come here will be 5 tests, so we will at least get they v them and England.

Ideally I’d like 4 or 5 v NZ. Surely with their ex-pats, a decent side and the general rivalry between the 2 we could get good crowds australia wide for them.

Would help if they have a proper warm up and perform better than they did 2019-20 as well.

 

[Seedsfan]

No one has said he’s the ONLY one keeping them out of the side - obviously the whole squad needs drastic changing but I’m not sure how often a teams going to drop 5 players it just doesn’t happen. But changes do need to be made, It’s not that hard to comprehend dropping the worst first I’m not sure what you can’t understand about that - he’s 32 he should have never been there in the first place with his record.

Personally for the next test I’d drop Zondo & Ngidi minimum (good bowler but has been hopeless here and is a net negative in the field) they’ve got enough of an attack without him. De Bruyn only stays as I can’t see them making 3 changes but in reality he should be gone too. As a starting point, again no team is swinging 5+ changes - start with the absolute deadwood and work from there

Because for Phat it is too hard to apply any logic

 

[doggies ftw]

Next time India come here will be 5 tests, so we will at least get they v them and England.

Ideally I’d like 4 or 5 v NZ. Surely with their ex-pats, a decent side and the general rivalry between the 2 we could get good crowds australia wide for them.

Would help if they have a proper warm up and perform better than they did 2019-20 as well.

Agree on NZ, CA needs to help build them vs us into a contest who could realistically come here for a 4/5 test series as they’re the most likely apart from India/England and without a 3rd team that can do that we’re really stretching thin in options to bring out these days.

They were pathetic last time round but they are capable (not of beating us but at least being worth the time of day) as you said give them a proper warm up, prepare green tops and really try and build the rivalry so it can draw crowds locally and maybe even entice Kiwis over for the event - we don’t play them nearly enough when they’re right there and good enough for a competitive contest.

But CA is hopeless so their ability to turn this into a thing is next to none tbh

 

[gordo2016]

Agar and Renshaw added to the Sydney squad for Starc and Green.

 

[Cleavy]

great, the no-rounder in Agar...

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Agar and Renshaw added to the Sydney squad for Starc and Green.

Agar for what? Being bald or something?

Renshaw in good

 

[LukeParkerno1]

great, the no-rounder in Agar...

Could be worse I guess Swepson could be there

 

[Kram]

Cool cat Agar in, good selection.

 

[PhatBoy]

Because for Phat it is too hard to apply any logic

Logic - like how you’re blaming one player for keeping other guys out of the side when there are 4 other batsmen in the squad who have not reached 30 this series.

Right. Logic.

 

[Richard Pryor]

Just on the quota discussion, re; fc stats it's important to note South Africa has two tiers of cricket which both have first class status, so you can have a bloke with a 45 fc average but he's playing at a level between shield and grade cricket who is legitimately worse than a guy with a 35 fc average in the top comp.

Hard to find breakdowns of those stats as well.

 

[PhatBoy]

Just on the quota discussion, re; fc stats it's important to note South Africa has two tiers of cricket which both have first class status, so you can have a bloke with a 45 fc average but he's playing at a level between shield and grade cricket who is legitimately worse than a guy with a 35 fc average in the top comp.

Hard to find breakdowns of those stats as well.

They all play both comps though as far as I’m aware - one is a franchise comp and one is a provincial comp. I’m not sure which is the stronger one but I think all players have access to both if they get selected don’t they?

 

[Blue1980]

Agree on NZ, CA needs to help build them vs us into a contest who could realistically come here for a 4/5 test series as they’re the most likely apart from India/England and without a 3rd team that can do that we’re really stretching thin in options to bring out these days.

They were pathetic last time round but they are capable (not of beating us but at least being worth the time of day) as you said give them a proper warm up, prepare green tops and really try and build the rivalry so it can draw crowds locally and maybe even entice Kiwis over for the event - we don’t play them nearly enough when they’re right there and good enough for a competitive contest.

But CA is hopeless so their ability to turn this into a thing is next to none tbh

In terms of who else we could build into bigger series, Pakistan would be another, now they are playing back at home.

They have the talent, though they seem to not know how to play in their own conditions yet either. But if Pakistan keep playing more they will continue to get better, big cricket mad country.

The NZ one seems a no brainer. The history of cricket though seems littered with insular mindsets from cricket boards of the major nations only interested in the short term.

CA still seem to treat NZ like they are the same rubbish side they were in the 90s, when we have a natural rivalry with them and could entice people over. CA seem too blinkered to think anything can be worthwhile if it doesn’t involve england and India.

You get the feeling if it was up to them they’d scrap playing tests and ODIs against anyone aside from England and India.

 

[doggies ftw]

I’d guess the idea for Renshaw would be to bat 6 and bowl some Offies? I guess it’s better than nothing to get him another taste at the level.

I just don’t know why we keep going back to Agar it’s ridiculous, move on

 

[Richard Pryor]

They all play both comps though as far as I’m aware - one is a franchise comp and one is a provincial comp. I’m not sure which is the stronger one but I think all players have access to both if they get selected don’t they?

From memory players are eligible to be selected in both with the top comp sides being amalgamated from the provincial teams, but because all the stats get mushed together it's very difficult to judge players just be browsing Cricinfo. Paradoxically better players will have worse stats due to playing more higher quality cricket, whereas middling players who can't get into the top team will have their stats cushioned by not playing at the top level.

 

[Blue1980]

This may answer some selection questions.
WA spin-bowling all rounder Ashton Agar and Queensland batter Matthew Renshaw both recalled to the Test squad.

Presumably Renners bats @6 for Green, Agar perhaps for a resting Lyon? Agar's selection also points to him being the favorite to partner Lyno in India.

Unless they go 2 spinners, Agar batting at 7.

Both getting a go would be ideal with tours of India and England around the corner.

Renshaw next cab off rank to open as well.

 

[11kgm]

******* Agar is a chance to play again my god

Also no Hardie makes me sad

Most likely

Renshaw
Warner
Labs
Smith
Head
Usman
Carey
Cummins
Morris/Hazelwood
Boland/Agar
Lyon