International Club Rugby Australia v Wales - Etihad Stadium 16/6/2012

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S120

S120

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Jun 19, 2011
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Wallabies
15. Adam Ashley-Cooper
14. Cooper Vuna
13. Rob Horne
12. Pat McCabe
11. Digby Ioane
10. Berrick Barnes
9. Will Genia
8. Wycliff Palu
7. David Pocock
6. Scott Higginbotham
5. Nathan Sharpe
4. Rob Simmons
3. Sekope Kepu
2. Tatafu Polota Nau
1. Benn Robinson

Reserves

16. Stephen Moore
17. Ben Alexander
18. Dave Dennis
19. Michael Hooper
20. Nic White
21. Anthony Fainga’a
22. Mike Harris

Unchanged side. Kepu I think is still under some sort of doubt with a hand injury. I'd still like to see Shipperely in for Vuna on the wing and Palmer in at tighthead.
 

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Lions1024 said:
Thats surely a joke?

Drew Mitchell hasn't looked anywhere near his best.
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Don't tell me you think Shipperly is a great defender, great finisher yes, but he doesn't help the defensive issues! Mitchell is the best option but he isn't match fit, well that is the line Deans has been saying.
 
S120 said:
He's not a great defender but he's a step up from Vuna.

Mitchell is definitely the best option but he clearly isn't fit enough for Deans' liking yet.
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Then I'd rather stick with Vuna. Another debutant who is only marginally better is not going to help. Wait till Drew or Turner are back.
 
bombersno1 said:
Don't tell me you think Shipperly is a great defender, great finisher yes, but he doesn't help the defensive issues! Mitchell is the best option but he isn't match fit, well that is the line Deans has been saying.
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Vuna on the wing has the potential to be disastrous. His defence is non-existant and if Horne, AAC or McCabe have a bad game, we're going to be leaking tries all night.

Drew Mitchell looks a shadow of his former self. With Tomane, Shipperley and Kingston on the fringes, I wouldn't be surprised if he's already played his last game for the Wallabies.

Caesar said:
Shipperly v Vuna is a pretty inconsequential decision.
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I'd normally agree, but Vuna is just about the worst defender i've seen, he's right down there with Quade. I'd even go so far as to say that Quade is technique-wise a better tackler. The fact that Vuna defensive problems are evident even though he plays on the wing speaks volumes. When was the last time a winger got criticised for their defensive game? Even Quade looks half-decent on the wing/fullback.
 
Neither player is really Test-quality and both will be a weak point in the team. Vuna's more dangerous offensively than Shipperly. His defence is unquestionably pretty ordinary, but I really don't think it merits people banging on about it the way that they do. Are you guys Rebels fans? I suspect people are mostly condemning him based on his Super 15 defensive record from last year, which was unquestionably horrible. His performance this year has been much improved, if still not much to write home about.

Having watched him a lot in the NRL, and seen the improvement this season, I'm prepared to write off last season as mostly about him adjusting to rugby's unique positional play rather than his actual ability. I guess the selectors feel similar. They do traditionally tend to accept a bit of defensive weakness in exchange for additional capability in attack.

Like I said, it's a bit six of one half a dozen of the other. Personally, I'm okay with the decision. You don't beat Wales by trying to out-defend them. But if Shipperly was playing I wouldn't have a major problem either. The whole decision just strikes me as shuffling deckchairs.
 
Lions1024 said:
Vuna on the wing has the potential to be disastrous. His defence is non-existant and if Horne, AAC or McCabe have a bad game, we're going to be leaking tries all night.

Drew Mitchell looks a shadow of his former self. With Tomane, Shipperley and Kingston on the fringes, I wouldn't be surprised if he's already played his last game for the Wallabies.



I'd normally agree, but Vuna is just about the worst defender i've seen, he's right down there with Quade. I'd even go so far as to say that Quade is technique-wise a better tackler. The fact that Vuna defensive problems are evident even though he plays on the wing speaks volumes. When was the last time a winger got criticised for their defensive game? Even Quade looks half-decent on the wing/fullback.
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Neither Shipperly or Vuna are near test standard, so lets be honest here, with Kingston, Turner, Mitchell unavailable we are stuck with our 6th choice winger. As for a winger with defensive problems, they are all over the place, look at the English wingers over the years. The first priority as a winger should be finishing tries off.
 
Good first half of rugby. Wales are setting a very staunch defensive line but the Wallabies look really crisp and organised In attack. Makes for a very enjoyable and interesting game. Wales haven't had much opportunity to build phases in our half but they look ok with the ball.

Pocock is a marvel with his work at he breakdown. Simply unstoppable.
 

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Wales have made so many tactical errors in this match. Can't believe they just kicked the ball away with a minute left when they had the ball on the halfway. And now the wallabies with a kick to win it. Wales will have lost this more than we've won it if it goes through. What a great opportunity for Harris though!
 
Gotta say I thought that last penalty was pretty harsh. The maul was pretty much stationary and it didn't look like it was pulled down by Wales.
 
Mint Condition said:
Gotta say I thought that last penalty was pretty harsh. The maul was pretty much stationary and it didn't look like it was pulled down by Wales.
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Justice for their centres being offside the ENTIRE 80 minutes, my goodness that ref was woeful. Glad the best side won the game.

Positives

1. Barnes- he is our no 10, great goalkicker and can get our centres running the lines.
2. Centres, much maligned were excellent again
3. Starting front row, were excellent
4. Harris is an elite goalkicker
5. We don't need Quade Cooper in this side.

Negatives

1. Moore, useless, comes on and the scrum is rubbish
2. Hooper, unlike his usual self was ordinary
3. Cooper Vuna- was just a dumb play, that said there is no-one better
 
Rubbish there is no-one better than Vuna. Shipperely, Cummins, Mogg to name 3 will provide at least as much as Vuna is in attack right now and will certainly tackle more effectively. A half fit Drew Mitchell would. Harsh on Moore. Alexander was more culpable for the poor scrums than Moore in my eyes when he replaced Robinson at LH. Barnes had a cracker. Genia had a solid game but wasn't allowed to be as effective as Wales really tried to stop him from having as big an influence on the game as he did last week. McCabe and Horne played very well too. AAC solid at the back as per usual. Great game all round. Very happy to have international rugby back.
 
S120 said:
Rubbish there is no-one better than Vuna. Shipperely, Cummins, Mogg to name 3 will provide at least as much as Vuna is in attack right now and will certainly tackle more effectively. A half fit Drew Mitchell would. Harsh on Moore. Alexander was more culpable for the poor scrums than Moore in my eyes when he replaced Robinson at LH. Barnes had a cracker. Genia had a solid game but wasn't allowed to be as effective as Wales really tried to stop him from having as big an influence on the game as he did last week. McCabe and Horne played very well too. AAC solid at the back as per usual. Great game all round. Very happy to have international rugby back.
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Yes lets play a fullback on the wing, did we not learn from our mistakes in the past. I am not saying Vuna is great, but there is no-one better, and Cummins is useless. Shipperly, meh, he is average, just like Vuna. Mitchell, I agree, but I was speaking to Drew last week and he basically said that he wasn't match fit yet for test rugby, he has ruled himself out until after the Super 15.

Moore was useless, TPN comes off and our scrum goes backwards and the 1st scrum was not with Alexander there, it was all Moore being useless. There HAS to be a better backup hooker.

Barnes showed why he should have been the fly half in the World Cup, Cooper pulls one thing out of his rear end and everyone wants him at 10. I am sorry give me the player that won't lose the game over the guy that may do something great 1 time out of 100!
 
bombersno1 said:
Yes lets play a fullback on the wing, did we not learn from our mistakes in the past. I am not saying Vuna is great, but there is no-one better, and Cummins is useless. Shipperly, meh, he is average, just like Vuna. Mitchell, I agree, but I was speaking to Drew last week and he basically said that he wasn't match fit yet for test rugby, he has ruled himself out until after the Super 15.

Moore was useless, TPN comes off and our scrum goes backwards and the 1st scrum was not with Alexander there, it was all Moore being useless. There HAS to be a better backup hooker.

Barnes showed why he should have been the fly half in the World Cup, Cooper pulls one thing out of his rear end and everyone wants him at 10. I am sorry give me the player that won't lose the game over the guy that may do something great 1 time out of 100!
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What mistakes? :rolleyes: Are you suggesting that JOC, Joe Roff, Chris Latham, Lachie Turner and Drew Mitchell are mistakes? Are you suggesting that playing Larkham at flyhalf was a mistake? What an absolutely stupid comment to make, you simply can't pigeon hole players, Mogg might be a sensation on the wing.

I presume you've never watched Shipperley or Cummins? Please tel me how they are useless and average. Just stop commenting on things that you obviously have no idea about, you look like a fool.

Another stupid comment. Not even going to bother responding, are you seriously suggesting that Moore be demoted because of one bad scrum? By your standards TPN should never play for the Wallbies again after some of his horrid performances last year.

Biggest BS. The past two games has been the only 2 times, apart from his debut, Barnes has looked comfortable at 10. It's all well and good to retrospectively say that, but no one in their right mind would have picked Barnes over Cooper last year. IMO Barnes isn't a 10.You've admitted this yourself Bombers. At the moment he's a stop-gap replacement for Cooper/Beale until they get fit and he's no guarantee to start at 12 when they come back.
 
S120 said:
Shipperely, Cummins, Mogg to name 3 will provide at least as much as Vuna is in attack right now and will certainly tackle more effectively.
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Yeah, nah. Have you watched much Super rugby this season? Fair enough if you want the extra defensive capability, but Vuna is a lot more penetrating offensively than any of those guys (Mogg? Surely you're having a laugh there).
 
Lions1024 said:
What mistakes? :rolleyes: Are you suggesting that JOC, Joe Roff, Chris Latham, Lachie Turner and Drew Mitchell are mistakes? Are you suggesting that playing Larkham at flyhalf was a mistake? What an absolutely stupid comment to make, you simply can't pigeon hole players, Mogg might be a sensation on the wing.

I presume you've never watched Shipperley or Cummins? Please tel me how they are useless and average. Just stop commenting on things that you obviously have no idea about, you look like a fool.

Another stupid comment. Not even going to bother responding, are you seriously suggesting that Moore be demoted because of one bad scrum? By your standards TPN should never play for the Wallbies again after some of his horrid performances last year.

Biggest BS. The past two games has been the only 2 times, apart from his debut, Barnes has looked comfortable at 10. It's all well and good to retrospectively say that, but no one in their right mind would have picked Barnes over Cooper last year. IMO Barnes isn't a 10.You've admitted this yourself Bombers. At the moment he's a stop-gap replacement for Cooper/Beale until they get fit and he's no guarantee to start at 12 when they come back.
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You DON'T play players out of their position, you just don't. Roff, Turner and Mitchell all had played wing before. Mogg is a fullback, lets not mention I worry about his size. Cummins is ordinary, he is fast, I'll give him that, but as a winger, I'd rather others please. Shipperly, is a finisher and I am happy to give him a go as he is a winger but he'll be no better/worse than Vuna.

No I am suggesting find a better hooker that knows how to scrum with the players, Moore was belted in the scrum last week as well, so it is not just one scrum

As for Barnes, he is better at 12, but he is our best 10, the fact is we don't have one, but he is much more safer, and I would rather Barnes not lose a match than Cooper try and pull something out of his backside...or have you not forgotten the kickoff in the World Cup Semi Final....Beale at 10....god no, he is a fullback!
 
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