International Club Rugby Australia v Wales - Etihad Stadium 16/6/2012

Yeah, nah. Have you watched much Super rugby this season? Fair enough if you want the extra defensive capability, but Vuna is a lot more penetrating offensively than any of those guys (Mogg? Surely you're having a laugh there).

Pretty much, Shipperly is probably even, but the other two are just ordinary options and one is a fullback!
 
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Funny old game. At the game, you can't see everything that happens in the rucks and scrums, but, geez, Pocock has a motor to get to every contest, and in good position.

Barnes was....Ok. The dummy for the try was excellent, but other than that, I wasn't overly impressed. Genia, very good, although nothing dramatic came off. AAC good, Vuna poor (and the send-off very poor), Ioane is a weapon.

Overall, our defence was excellent - attack not so impressive. McCabe and Horne were brilliant in defence, but didn't seem to set anything up in attack. Reckon Beale will come into 5/8th, and Barnes into the centres.

Second half was just a penalty shootout - who was in front at the end. Neither side really looked like getting a try in the last 30 mins.
 
Funny old game. At the game, you can't see everything that happens in the rucks and scrums, but, geez, Pocock has a motor to get to every contest, and in good position.

Barnes was....Ok. The dummy for the try was excellent, but other than that, I wasn't overly impressed. Genia, very good, although nothing dramatic came off. AAC good, Vuna poor (and the send-off very poor), Ioane is a weapon.

Overall, our defence was excellent - attack not so impressive. McCabe and Horne were brilliant in defence, but didn't seem to set anything up in attack. Reckon Beale will come into 5/8th, and Barnes into the centres.

Second half was just a penalty shootout - who was in front at the end. Neither side really looked like getting a try in the last 30 mins.

Just OK for Barnes...my goodness if Cooper plays like that everyone flaps for 3 months! He was outstanding all night and unlike Cooper is a better goalkicker! Beale at 10 will be a disaster. As for the 2nd half...both sides tried to play rugby but the ref was deplorable, Wales in particular were a metre and a half offside all night!
 
Jun 19, 2011
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Yeah, nah. Have you watched much Super rugby this season? Fair enough if you want the extra defensive capability, but Vuna is a lot more penetrating offensively than any of those guys (Mogg? Surely you're having a laugh there).

They will provide better defence and attack than what Vuna has over the last two tests. He's barely got near it. Vuna is a fine Super rugby player but he is out of his depth at test level considering how little ball he finds and how few tackles he makes.
 
Jun 6, 2011
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The form of Horne and McCabe brings an interesting dilemma as to what is our best side when everyone is fit. O'Connor, Beale, Cooper, Mitchell were easily be in our best 15 a year ago and I would still rate them, but where do they fit in given Barnes is playing good football and so is AAC.

I'd go something like this:

9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Ioane
12. Barnes
13. O'Connor
14. Mitchell
15. Beale

But, that leaves us more exposed defensively and is an attack that is more "ad-lib" based than serious structure. It will depend on how he plays out the remainder of the Super 15 season, but as much as I love him, the huge amount of fly-half talent (O'Connor, Beale, Barnes) means I am unsure as to whether Quade is our best option going forward.
 
O'Connor at 13, just lol, thanks or the laugh I needed it actually. Horne is, and clearly is our best 13 and I would love to know what great aspect of Coopers game makes Barnes make way out of the 10 despite being close to man of the match in 1 test and man of the match in the 2nd test. You just don't get the consistency needed in test rugby from Quade.

Our best backline should read something like this:

15- Beale
14- O'Connor
13- Horne
12- McCabe
11- Ioane
10- Barnes
9- Genia
 
Mar 10, 2007
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O'Connor at 13, just lol, thanks or the laugh I needed it actually. Horne is, and clearly is our best 13 and I would love to know what great aspect of Coopers game makes Barnes make way out of the 10 despite being close to man of the match in 1 test and man of the match in the 2nd test. You just don't get the consistency needed in test rugby from Quade.

Our best backline should read something like this:

15- Beale
14- O'Connor
13- Horne
12- McCabe
11- Ioane
10- Barnes
9- Genia

Horne has played really well the last two tests, but I would hardly describe him as consistent. Injured too much.
 
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They will provide better defence and attack than what Vuna has over the last two tests. He's barely got near it. Vuna is a fine Super rugby player but he is out of his depth at test level considering how little ball he finds and how few tackles he makes.

Agree that Vuna is out of his depth. Would go with both of Shipperlerly and Mogg ahead of him. Even Morahan on the wing would be a better option.
 
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Just OK for Barnes...my goodness if Cooper plays like that everyone flaps for 3 months! He was outstanding all night and unlike Cooper is a better goalkicker! Beale at 10 will be a disaster. As for the 2nd half...both sides tried to play rugby but the ref was deplorable, Wales in particular were a metre and a half offside all night!

Disagree. He has come a long way since playing at 10 when he first started playing at the Tahs.
 
Horne has played really well the last two tests, but I would hardly describe him as consistent. Injured too much.

I agree, but he is the only test quality 13 we have, Faainga is another average player who can do a bit off the bench but Horne is pretty devastating in defence.
 
Disagree. He has come a long way since playing at 10 when he first started playing at the Tahs.

Nothing will change the fact is, he is a BALL RUNNER. You do not have 'ball runners' at fly half, it fails. Did we not learn from the Giteau fiasco ofg having a quick ball runner playing 10, it was so bad that everyone hated the coach. Beale is a ball running fullback, that is where he should be played.
 

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Nothing will change the fact is, he is a BALL RUNNER. You do not have 'ball runners' at fly half, it fails. Did we not learn from the Giteau fiasco ofg having a quick ball runner playing 10, it was so bad that everyone hated the coach. Beale is a ball running fullback, that is where he should be played.

Bombers you haven't watched Beale before he was injured. Beale has improved out of sight playing at 10 and has become an elite distributor. Comparison with Giteau is way off the mark.

I agree, but he is the only test quality 13 we have, Faainga is another average player who can do a bit off the bench but Horne is pretty devastating in defence.

Horne is far from Test Quality. He's all hype and no substance mainly due to injury. I was one of his biggest fans coming out of schoolboys, but I've now got some serious doubts on his ceiling and I don't think he'll be our future 13. If Faingaa had as much hype as Horne coming out of school, he would be the the starting 13 at the moment. Horne and Faingaa are warming the seat for CFS, so I don't really mind who starts, both are very similar players.

The form of Horne and McCabe brings an interesting dilemma as to what is our best side when everyone is fit. O'Connor, Beale, Cooper, Mitchell were easily be in our best 15 a year ago and I would still rate them, but where do they fit in given Barnes is playing good football and so is AAC.

I'd go something like this:

9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Ioane
12. Barnes
13. O'Connor
14. Mitchell
15. Beale

But, that leaves us more exposed defensively and is an attack that is more "ad-lib" based than serious structure. It will depend on how he plays out the remainder of the Super 15 season, but as much as I love him, the huge amount of fly-half talent (O'Connor, Beale, Barnes) means I am unsure as to whether Quade is our best option going forward.

O'Connor at 13 is an interesting option and one that I would really like to see. People forget that O'Connor played predominantly outside centre as a schoolboy.

I would probably go with this backline:

9.Genia
10. Cooper
11. Ioane
12. Barnes
13. McCabe
14. O'Connor
15. Beale

20. White
21. Horne
22. AAC
 

Lions1024

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Yeah, nah. Have you watched much Super rugby this season? Fair enough if you want the extra defensive capability, but Vuna is a lot more penetrating offensively than any of those guys (Mogg? Surely you're having a laugh there).

The problem isn't whether Vuna is better in attack, it's all about team balance. For the Rebels, Vuna plays the role that Digby plays for the Wallabies. So straight off the bat you can't compare Shipperley and Mogg to Vuna. With Digby in the same team, Vuna can't play the roaming winger role and he effectively adds nothing in to the team.

If you pick Shipperley, you get a great finisher with serious pace and a rock under the high ball. You pick Mogg and you get a Latham-like left boot. With AAC, McCabe and Horne in the team, I'd personally pick Mogg because of his left boot as it complement the team nicely.

But I do agree that Vuna is a better in attack than Cummins and I would probably pick him ahead. Vuna looks so good in attack but you just can't play him at Test level because of his defense.
 
Bombers you haven't watched Beale before he was injured. Beale has improved out of sight playing at 10 and has become an elite distributor. Comparison with Giteau is way off the mark.

Horne is far from Test Quality. He's all hype and no substance mainly due to injury. I was one of his biggest fans coming out of schoolboys, but I've now got some serious doubts on his ceiling and I don't think he'll be our future 13. If Faingaa had as much hype as Horne coming out of school, he would be the the starting 13 at the moment. Horne and Faingaa are warming the seat for CFS, so I don't really mind who starts, both are very similar players.

Yes I saw Beale at 10, I saw him pull one game out of his rear end and then go to water in the next. Exactly my point. Ball runners can occasionally work at 10, but if you rely on them you are screwed! Matt Giteau even had a game or two at 10 that were good. Beale will be an elite ball runner, we don't need him at 10, we have Barnes and Ben Lucas at fly half options who are more distributers anyway.

Horne is better than you give him credit for, look what he does in defence, it is the small things that wins test matches and he runs outstanding lines.
 
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Yes I saw Beale at 10, I saw him pull one game out of his rear end and then go to water in the next. Exactly my point. Ball runners can occasionally work at 10, but if you rely on them you are screwed! Matt Giteau even had a game or two at 10 that were good. Beale will be an elite ball runner, we don't need him at 10, we have Barnes and Ben Lucas at fly half options who are more distributers anyway.

Horne is better than you give him credit for, look what he does in defence, it is the small things that wins test matches and he runs outstanding lines.

Agreed on both accounts.

Kurtley is wasted at 10. I think he can do it but I think he is so much more valuable with all that room and space in front of him running in from 15. He is the best fullback in the world when fit IMO.

And Rob Horne, when fit is certainly a test 13. The best 13's aren't game breaking beasts like a Mortlock in world rugby right now. Conrad Smith, Brian O'Driscoll (who is not the player he used to be, but still a strong 13), Jean De Villiers, Jonathan Davies are great defenders who run really smart and strong lines without being brilliantly agile or quick. That is what Rob Horne has the potential to be. If he remains fit, he could be a staple at 13 in the test side.
 
Agreed on both accounts.

Kurtley is wasted at 10. I think he can do it but I think he is so much more valuable with all that room and space in front of him running in from 15. He is the best fullback in the world when fit IMO.

And Rob Horne, when fit is certainly a test 13. The best 13's aren't game breaking beasts like a Mortlock in world rugby right now. Conrad Smith, Brian O'Driscoll (who is not the player he used to be, but still a strong 13), Jean De Villiers, Jonathan Davies are great defenders who run really smart and strong lines without being brilliantly agile or quick. That is what Rob Horne has the potential to be. If he remains fit, he could be a staple at 13 in the test side.

Yes look I don't think anyone doubts that Beale along with O'Connor could fill in in that role, but it takes away their no1 assets, especially in space.

Horne reminds me a lot of Jason Little actually (ex. Wallaby), very solid defensively with enough speed to cause some problems, there is no problem having a solid 13, especially when Beale, O'Connor and Ioane are in the backline as game breakers!
 
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Yeh I agree. No problem having a really solid 13 who will just do his job well if you have brilliant players around him like Ioane, Beale and JOC. It's what Conrad Smith has been doing for the last 6 years in the AB's side. Doing his job to a tee every game allowing the outrageously talented AB's outside backs to do the rest. Won't make bad reads in defence and will run strong and good angles in attack to provide another option. Jason Little was finishing his career just as I came into rugby as a kid so I don't know heaps about him.

Fainga'a has similar defensive capabilities but he isn't as talented in attack as Horne is. Therein lies the reason Horne is a more valuable player at 13.

Deans ought to keep Horne there and let him mature. What Deans does with JOC, Beale, Barnes, Quade and the rest of the back line when there is a full squad to pick from will be intriguing though.
 
Yeh I agree. No problem having a really solid 13 who will just do his job well if you have brilliant players around him like Ioane, Beale and JOC. It's what Conrad Smith has been doing for the last 6 years in the AB's side. Doing his job to a tee every game allowing the outrageously talented AB's outside backs to do the rest. Won't make bad reads in defence and will run strong and good angles in attack to provide another option. Jason Little was finishing his career just as I came into rugby as a kid so I don't know heaps about him.

Fainga'a has similar defensive capabilities but he isn't as talented in attack as Horne is. Therein lies the reason Horne is a more valuable player at 13.

Deans ought to keep Horne there and let him mature. What Deans does with JOC, Beale, Barnes, Quade and the rest of the back line when there is a full squad to pick from will be intriguing though.

Yep probably a poor example, but think of Tim Horan being the more damaging attacking player and Little being the rock solid defender with a bit of footwork, this is what Rob Horne can be, and it is sort of who he reminds me of. Conrad Smith would be the more recent example actually or De Villers from South Africa. You know Australia, we never have a full squad anyway, but if that was the case I would put Barnes at 10, Ioane, McCabe, Horne, O'Connor, Beale. (AAK on the bench as the utility)
 

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I have been a bit harsh on Horne. Probably stems from the fact that I rated him so highly as a schoolboy and he simply hasn't really shown all the qualities that he has to offer.

Yep probably a poor example, but think of Tim Horan being the more damaging attacking player and Little being the rock solid defender with a bit of footwork, this is what Rob Horne can be, and it is sort of who he reminds me of. Conrad Smith would be the more recent example actually or De Villers from South Africa. You know Australia, we never have a full squad anyway, but if that was the case I would put Barnes at 10, Ioane, McCabe, Horne, O'Connor, Beale. (AAK on the bench as the utility)

It may seem a bit foolish in retrospect, but back when Horne was still a junior I actually made the comparison to Horan. Rob Horne is twice as talented as Jason Little. Jason Little would probably be a good comparison to A Faingaa, a player with very limited talent but got the best out of himself though hard work, determination and guts.

Rob Horne hasn't shown everyone all of his tricks. May surprise some people, but Rob Horne has got a great deft passing game. He's got (had) an incredible ability to get his outside players into space and really I haven't seen that at all from him ever since his first season with the Tahs.
 
I have been a bit harsh on Horne. Probably stems from the fact that I rated him so highly as a schoolboy and he simply hasn't really shown all the qualities that he has to offer.

It may seem a bit foolish in retrospect, but back when Horne was still a junior I actually made the comparison to Horan. Rob Horne is twice as talented as Jason Little. Jason Little would probably be a good comparison to A Faingaa, a player with very limited talent but got the best out of himself though hard work, determination and guts.

Rob Horne hasn't shown everyone all of his tricks. May surprise some people, but Rob Horne has got a great deft passing game. He's got (had) an incredible ability to get his outside players into space and really I haven't seen that at all from him ever since his first season with the Tahs.

Maybe so, but still doesn't change the fact he is STILL our only test quality no13, you can be harsh all you like but it is just the way it is, in fact Horne has been extremely solid and is a better option that using a utility like AAK.

Maybe I rated Little too much but I definitely saw a lot of footwork and that is what Horne has, probably why I rate them. No shame in having a Jason Little- type centre, in fact a lot of world class centres are exactly like that. I agree on his passing game, but you do have to remember with all his injuries, he has missed about 2 years of rugby, it takes time
 
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