BringBackTorps
Club Legend
- Jan 5, 2017
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[Tom Wills actual words, in his 1859 letter to Horace!]
He [Wills] wrote to his brother Horace: "Rugby was not a game for us, we wanted a winter pastime but men could be harmed if thrown on the ground so we thought differently."
This very EARLY, & direct, relevant quote from Wills himself dispenses with the notion that Wills wanted to introduce the full Rugby school Rules into Victoria; & it is corroborated by the highly respected C. Harrison- Wills' cousin- stating that Tom Wills told him he [Wills] always wanted "a game of our own".
I suggest you discount those who are very strong opponents of Wills.
I suggest you read (or re-read) de Moore's highly praised biography of T. Wills; & D. Thompson's book, & later publication: undeniably the most detailed analyses, by far, of the very early games' styles & Rules; & 1850's Rugby school game styles & Rules.
Dr G. de Moore (who, in pg 103 of my 2011 edition) said that Wills was the best kicker of the rugby ball whilst he was at Rugby School, & in early Melbourne Rules. de Moore is very widely recognised, & acclaimed, as the best authority on Wills.
Rugby games then used a pig's bladder, the school asking the butcher to provide a bladder that was as close to an oval shape as possible.
The actual shape of these bladders, & thus rugby balls created, more closely resembled a plum, or ovoid (egg) shape.
I suggest you place very little credence on the views of R. Hay- a Scottish soccer historian & soccer promoter.
R. Hay has supported the views of historian R. Gooch, who wrote it is possible Marngrook did not exist in Victoria, prior to European settlement- & aboriginals started it later, mimicking the european game they witnessed.
I assume you accept this is a repugnant view they expressed?
I note you have not responded to the information from D. Thompson (& historian R. Grow) that, at Rugby School in the 1850's, the rugby Rules required a player have both feet on the ground when taking a mark ie no jumping to catch.
I disagree with your comments on:-
. the AFL's views on Marngrook in 2008. Refer to my above comments on the 1996 AF monument (paid for by the AFL, at Wills' childhood farm) at Moyston & recognition of Marngrook- words written by the AFL's Official Historian then, C. Hutchinson.
. the 1858 Melbourne Rules games certainly had Rules!
(whether all players understood &/or subscribed to these 1858 Rules is a different issue).
These issues have been covered in great depth, & with many appropriate citations, in the Footy History Section- Origins Thread.
Thompson's research is obviously the most detailed & relevant on these Origins' issues, & he has been very widely quoted there- that Thread, IMO, is the best place for these discussions.
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