Roast Australian Politics Stuffing Up Australia - Treasurer Joe Hockey Pg26

[Baltimore Jack]

Must say, I was amused by Turnbull's post-election drivel/speech. He blamed Labor for being such a dastardly bunch of thieves who stole his glory, even when the primary vote shows that bands of other thieves stole Labor's primary vote, that Labor was hardly the recipient of whatever stolen votes Turnbull is blathering about.

People are disenchanted. Malcolm is the point guard for a party he is out of kilter with, and their policies for anything resembling a future were (to put it kindly) unconvincing. At the same time, many people are evidently not prepared to switch (or switch back) to the ALP. My opinion is that this will leave us with a balkanised political system where key legislation becomes jammed. It is something which defines US politics, and it is a trend which will build here and which will do nothing to restore the people's faith in democratic process.

At least Carlton didn't beat us twice this year. Was a good night.

Turnbull's speech was quite amazing, I got a sense he thought he was still campaigning.
And to suggest he lost based on lies....he is a f**king politician for christ sake, it is their default language
"I give you this rolled gold promise, we will not cut funding to Health, Education or the ABC" - Tony Abbott 2013 Election Campaign

 

[JB1975]

Turnbull's speech was quite amazing, I got a sense he thought he was still campaigning.
And to suggest he lost based on lies....he is a f**king politician for christ sake, it is their default language
"I give you this rolled gold promise, we will not cut funding to Health, Education or the ABC" - Tony Abbott 2013 Election Campaign

In some ways it did sound like electioneering, but he was trying to win over his own party more than anything else. This election has eroded and perhaps obliterated his authority within the Liberals and it seemed like he was begging the wolves at his door to leave him alone. And maybe they will, but no one hates Malcolm more than some within his own party.

The umbrage regarding 'Mediscare' is chuckle-worthy, no doubt. The truth was stretched by Labor, undoubtedly, but the Liberals have shown in the recent past that they are willing to prop up private systems (education and health) while continuing to 'rationalise' what's left for the public, and so the people hardly needed to be told what the Liberals might do in the future.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Some see FPP voting as not necessarily getting a majority decision.
You could have a 3 way contest with the result being 35%, 33% and 32%, so in effect 65% of voters don't want the winner

The Brexit is a good example 37% in favour 36% against and 27% failed to vote.
Leaving aside the fact that the 27% didn't have to vote, a majority decision was not achieved, hence the current turmoil

Not voting at all is not quite the same thing as voting for a third party.
So brexit was 52 v 48 or about that.
In USA politics close to 45 to 50 % don't vote, hard to say 25% only voted for winning candidate.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Not voting at all is not quite the same thing as voting for a third party.
So brexit was 52 v 48 or about that.
In USA politics close to 45 to 50 % don't vote, hard to say 25% only voted for winning candidate.

I don't disagree, but it is because of their voting system, that the argument I put, gains legitimacy and hence turmoil
I would agree that there is middle ground though in Optional Preferential Voting, particularly where a majority was not achieved on 1st preferences

 

[JB1975]

Nice to see fake CFA members (UFU stooges) at polling booths where actual CFA volunteers had decided not to attend in any capacity.

Not a fan of the UFU, or what the Andrews government is trying to ram through. Any agreement which interferes with the operational response of the CFA is a threat to public safety, and I hope that the public (or at least those in CFA-intensive areas) punishes the State government when it gets a chance. But I'm also not convinced that targeting Federal Labor was an effective or wise longer-term strategy. I understand why they did it, and it has a measure of logic to it, but overall I think the CFA needed to be more circumspect.

On the above, are there any printed reports of UFU stooges masquerading as CFA volunteers, or just your own experience? I'm not doubting your claim, I'm just curious. I'm enrolled in a fire-prone area and I was keen to verbal whichever UFU spruiker had the gall to show up, but I was travelling around and lodged an absent vote instead.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Not a fan of the UFU, or what the Andrews government is trying to ram through. Any agreement which interferes with the operational response of the CFA is a threat to public safety, and I hope that the public (or at least those in CFA-intensive areas) punishes the State government when it gets a chance. But I'm also not convinced that targeting Federal Labor was an effective or wise longer-term strategy. I understand why they did it, and it has a measure of logic to it, but overall I think the CFA needed to be more circumspect.

On the above, are there any printed reports of UFU stooges masquerading as CFA volunteers, or just your own experience? I'm not doubting your claim, I'm just curious. I'm enrolled in a fire-prone area and I was keen to verbal whichever UFU spruiker had the gall to show up, but I was travelling around and lodged an absent vote instead.

Lie 1: CFA volunteer firefighters won't be allowed to do a thing until seven career firefighters arrive at an incident.
Fact: First of all, the requirement is that seven career firefighters simply be dispatched. If the fire is under control, the second truck can be cancelled.
Secondly, this requirement is limited only to 34 "integrated" CFA stations in highly-populated areas, like Frankston and Geelong.
It won't apply at the other almost 1,200 CFA stations across Victoria – that's 97 per cent of them.

Lie 2: There will be a veto power over the decisions of the CFA.
Fact: There is no veto in this agreement.
Like most workplaces, there will be consultation on issues that affect the employment of career firefighters, such as the recognition of prior learning. If they don't reach agreement, it goes to an independent umpire.

Lie 3: This new agreement will destroy the CFA.
Fact: That's just an insult to the commitment and dedication of volunteer and career firefighters everywhere.
It's the most irresponsible lie of all, because it's made people unnecessarily concerned about their homes, businesses and livestock. And that's scare campaigning 101.

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/pr...s-cfa-deal-20160620-gpn52f.html#ixzz4DJocPLfz

 

[JB1975]

Lie 1: CFA volunteer firefighters won't be allowed to do a thing until seven career firefighters arrive at an incident.
Fact: First of all, the requirement is that seven career firefighters simply be dispatched. If the fire is under control, the second truck can be cancelled.
Secondly, this requirement is limited only to 34 "integrated" CFA stations in highly-populated areas, like Frankston and Geelong.
It won't apply at the other almost 1,200 CFA stations across Victoria – that's 97 per cent of them.

Lie 2: There will be a veto power over the decisions of the CFA.
Fact: There is no veto in this agreement.
Like most workplaces, there will be consultation on issues that affect the employment of career firefighters, such as the recognition of prior learning. If they don't reach agreement, it goes to an independent umpire.

Lie 3: This new agreement will destroy the CFA.
Fact: That's just an insult to the commitment and dedication of volunteer and career firefighters everywhere.
It's the most irresponsible lie of all, because it's made people unnecessarily concerned about their homes, businesses and livestock. And that's scare campaigning 101.

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/pr...s-cfa-deal-20160620-gpn52f.html#ixzz4DJocPLfz

The agreement seeks to give the union more power over the operations of the CFA. The scope of that power is a matter of debate, but many people feel quite strongly (and I would say, quite rightly) that any increase in the UFU's power over CFA command cannot be justified. Any agreement which in any way risks the marginalisation or overriding of CFA command or experienced CFA volunteers on the ground cannot be justified, or at least hasn't been justified by either the UFU or the Andrews government. That is, it hasn't been justified as necessary for the safety of UFU members, and nor has it been justified in relation to the safety of the broader community.

I read the Andrews piece when it was printed. It was a half-decent effort at obfuscation, but that's all it was. For example, most people never suggested that the UFU wanted 'veto' power, but Andrews decided to make a straw man out of it anyway. Nor have most reasonable people suggested that the agreement would destroy the CFA, but the existence of such claims have allowed the government to appear reasonable.

But many CFA volunteers are in no doubt about how toxic the agreement is, and certainly the previous minister (who resigned because she couldn't sign off on such an agreement in good conscience) and the CFA board were clear-eyed about what the implications of the agreement are. No puff piece by the Premier will change the realities.

 

[BoxMatrix]

The Brexit is a good example 37% in favour 36% against and 27% failed to vote.
Leaving aside the fact that the 27% didn't have to vote, a majority decision was not achieved, hence the current turmoil

If that 27% actually cared, then they should have voted. No one was stopping them.

If you don't vote, you have no right to complain.

 

[TradeDraft]

If that 27% actually cared, then they should have voted. No one was stopping them.

If you don't vote, you have no right to complain.

Agree.

We get Shitty Internet and pay more for tons of Things and You did not Vote or Voted Liberal. Don't comeback winging

 

[Tarkyn_24]

I don't think anyone that voted Liberal will come back whinging, because the Libs have the more sound economic policy and don't pillage the future to give unnecessary handouts today.

 

[TradeDraft]

I don't think anyone that voted Liberal will come back whinging, because the Libs have the more sound economic policy and don't pillage the future to give unnecessary handouts today.

Unless you have money and can Afford Private Schooling and Private Health then you are Stuffed. Because they are taking Funding away from them.

Also getting OutDated Internet that is already out of date overseas so they have to improve that inside the next 10 Years.

Yeah so just give the Poor Nothing and make the Life even Harder.

So you rather be a Prick just so you can get Budget back to Surpless. What about get Companies like Google and Ikea to Actually pay Tax

 

[Tarkyn_24]

Unless you have money and can Afford Private Schooling and Private Health then you are Stuffed. Because they are taking Funding away from them.

Also getting OutDated Internet that is already out of date overseas so they have to improve that inside the next 10 Years.

Yeah so just give the Poor Nothing and make the Life even Harder.

So you rather be a Prick just so you can get Budget back to Surpless. What about get Companies like Google and Ikea to Actually pay Tax

I'd highly recommend you go look up the U.S. Debt clock. I want us to take the necessary measures to get the budget back into surplus so that we don't end up in a similar position, because unlike the States, we don't have the political clout to bully our way out of an ever increasing deficit.

For what it's worth, the Libs IMO aren't losing voters because of their attempts to rebalance. They're losing votes because they're being increasingly insensitive to social justice causes. Things like gay marriage need to be introduced because I feel they are alienating the younger demographic with their stance, and youth appear increasingly capable and willing to voice their disapproval on such causes via electronic media. The LNP are at risk of ostracising a generation if they don't get on board with the most prevalent swings in attitude toward these social issues. That's where I feel they're dropping the votes.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

Oh and also I don't think it's necessary at all to call me a prick. I was educated at a public school, my family on both sides were as poor as they come and I'm blessed that my parents are financially aware because if they weren't I have no doubt that would've continued. I'd hardly say I have money.

 

[TradeDraft]

Oh and also I don't think it's necessary at all to call me a prick. I was educated at a public school, my family on both sides were as poor as they come and I'm blessed that my parents are financially aware because if they weren't I have no doubt that would've continued. I'd hardly say I have money.

I was meaning more the Liberal Party then you

 

[Tarkyn_24]

I was meaning more the Liberal Party then you

In that case my mistake, I misunderstood your intent.

All the same, and I mean this with all due respect, I think you might demonise the counterparty to whatever stance you hold a little bit. Disagree with the policies, and by all means hate the person if they've done something extreme enough to be deserving of the hatred, but just be careful of making such extreme sweeping statements. Just because their vision for what they believe is the best action for Australia doesn't reconcile with yours, it doesn't necessarily make them bad people. Just food for thought, I know things can get heated in debate so all good.

 

[TradeDraft]

In that case my mistake, I misunderstood your intent.

All the same, and I mean this with all due respect, I think you might demonise the counterparty to whatever stance you hold a little bit. Disagree with the policies, and by all means hate the person if they've done something extreme enough to be deserving of the hatred, but just be careful of making such extreme sweeping statements. Just because their vision for what they believe is the best action for Australia doesn't reconcile with yours, it doesn't necessarily make them bad people. Just food for thought, I know things can get heated in debate so all good.

I know to take a very very extreme View and Sticking with it.

Not Saying there bad People but I find I think of majority of ALL Pollies that they come accross as all very Cocky.

Yes. People can get Heated in a Debate

 

[Tarkyn_24]

I know to take a very very extreme View and Sticking with it.

Not Saying there bad People but I find I think of majority of ALL Pollies that they come accross as all very Cocky.

Yes. People can get Heated in a Debate

I think to be successful in politics you need to be quite strong willed. So yes, I agree that can make many of them seem cocky.

I found Abbott and Gillard insufferable, but quite liked Rudd's personality (but unfortunately found his leadership uninspiring). It'd be nice to have a genuine, competent leader again. I don't think we've had one since Howard.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

If that 27% actually cared, then they should have voted. No one was stopping them.

If you don't vote, you have no right to complain.

I agree, but that wasn't the point I was making

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

Turnbull's speech was quite amazing, calls his out as a falsehood.
And to suggest he lost based on lies....he is a f**king politician for christ sake, it is their default language
"I give you this rolled gold promise, we will not cut funding to Health, Education or the ABC" - Tony Abbott 2013 Election Campaign

Oh he was. The next battle will be the toughest of his political life

I don't think anyone that voted Liberal will come back whinging, because the Libs have the more sound economic policy and don't pillage the future to give unnecessary handouts today.

The last 3 years of coalition economic nous does not support this statement

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Oh he was. The next battle will be the toughest of his political life

I think they have a real problem now identifying their next leader
It can't be Abbott
Morrison has all the charisma of a wet lettuce leaf
Bishop doesn't want it
There is no way in hell they will go with Dutton or Pyne
It has to be Turnbull, it which case the ALP will destroy him in the media and in Parliament

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

I think they have a real problem now identifying their next leader
It can't be Abbott
Morrison has all the charisma of a wet lettuce leaf
Bishop doesn't want it
There is no way in hell they will go with Dutton or Pyne
It has to be Turnbull, it which case the ALP will destroy him in the media and in Parliament

This creepy christian fundamentalist wants the gig REEEEAAAALLL bad

 

[Baltimore Jack]

This creepy christian fundamentalist wants the gig REEEEAAAALLL bad

An Abbott clone

 

[TradeDraft]

This creepy christian fundamentalist wants the gig REEEEAAAALLL bad

Religon should not be part of Government

 

[TradeDraft]

Internet be way better with Labor as get Proper NBN with Copper.

Where Libs just do a little upgrade that is already out of date overseas.

They cost the same

 

[Maggie5]

This creepy christian fundamentalist wants the gig REEEEAAAALLL bad

I think that this is another one of Eddies great ideas like MM coaching Carlton.
Had a chat to Malcolm, suggested he become PM, call a DD, perform poorly during election, resign as PM due to poor result knowing the cupboard is bare amongst the Libs.
Win win, Malcom gets his wish to be PM, Libs self destruct.