Australian Survivor: Blood vs Water

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phantom13

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It would have been funny don’t get me wrong, his comments about Emmett were funny but ultimately they cost him pretty dearly.

If he’d seen he’d lost the jury and just burned the lot of them it would have been funny, pointing it out any earlier would have just been more of the same arrogance and superiority complex that ultimately ruined him.
 

Lefthanded

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I think George was strategically dominant since day 1 or 2, when he was able to save Wai and also get rid of dictator doctor, both moves that benefited him that he orchestrated.

I'm a big Hayley fan too. Her only flaw in an otherwise close to perfect game was she's been voted out once. That's a big one though for mine.

In terms of hard done by because of a twist, clearly Baden was the most rorted by any of the contestants.

Anyway like I've said since about 2/3 of the way in, as long as Hayley or George won, I'd be happy that the result justified the game.
Yes, George was able to save Wai early but strategically dominant from day 1 or 2????

George's near complete lack of social ability rendered any strategic awareness practically null and void early in the game. He got that big advantage for first tribal and wanted Mitch (dictator doctor) out yet missed his target and came away with no friends (Wai did feel somewhat grateful but turned on George for the benefit of her own game after not very long.

George orchestrated Mitch's demise?? Might want to check your facts there, wiki records that George was part of the minority on that vote (minority targeted Laura) and it was the majority that voted Mitch out.

If George had actually been properly strategically dominant with even a half decent social game he wouldn't have needed others to save him on at least two occasions - Cara with idol and Hayley organising the Joey blindside.

I also disagree about Baden - it was Hayley and Baden that ended on the bottom because of the twist but only one of them had enough social game and proactiveness to save themselves (if only for one vote). It was Hayley saving herself that then left Baden voted out. If Baden had more game then Hayley would have been first to go of the pair because she was the bigger threat.

I do agree with your last sentence!
 

Lefthanded

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I know she got voted out (we can debate the merits of her downfall coming as a result of bad twists removing most of her agency etc), but I really appreciated Hayley's strategic game.

  • She made a really good move pre-merge to orchestrate and execute Joey's blindside (if I remember correctly).
  • Her use of the idol at the tribe swap was incredible. Played it to perfection
  • Her move at the final 4, convincing both Cara and George to vote for each other was incredible.

George also played a hell of a strategic game. His move at the final 5 is an all time move in my opinion. However, I don't think his strategic game was objectively better than Hayleys. He only came into his own post-merge (bungled the pre-merge multiple times).
I think Hayley's move to put votes on Dani (in case of idol) when Simon was getting booted was also mention worthy. Ditto her comment that early on she was managing her threat level.

Am meaning to list their various moves for comparison if I get the time as whilst I had been feeling George played better strategically the more I think about it the less sure I am.
 

eth-dog

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I think Hayley's move to put votes on Dani (in case of idol) when Simon was getting booted was also mention worthy. Ditto her comment that early on she was managing her threat level.

Am meaning to list their various moves for comparison if I get the time as whilst I had been feeling George played better strategically the more I think about it the less sure I am.
The thing about George's strategic game is that he was at the bottom from the start and still managed to get the right players to work with him at the right times to keep him alive. He orchestrated big moves.

Hayley's strategic game wasn't as good. She made some strong moves and she was the best all round player but George's strategic game basically got him to the end.
 

checkraiseulite

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Yes, George was able to save Wai early but strategically dominant from day 1 or 2????

George's near complete lack of social ability rendered any strategic awareness practically null and void early in the game. He got that big advantage for first tribal and wanted Mitch (dictator doctor) out yet missed his target and came away with no friends (Wai did feel somewhat grateful but turned on George for the benefit of her own game after not very long.

George orchestrated Mitch's demise?? Might want to check your facts there, wiki records that George was part of the minority on that vote (minority targeted Laura) and it was the majority that voted Mitch out.

If George had actually been properly strategically dominant with even a half decent social game he wouldn't have needed others to save him on at least two occasions - Cara with idol and Hayley organising the Joey blindside.

I also disagree about Baden - it was Hayley and Baden that ended on the bottom because of the twist but only one of them had enough social game and proactiveness to save themselves (if only for one vote). It was Hayley saving herself that then left Baden voted out. If Baden had more game then Hayley would have been first to go of the pair because she was the bigger threat.

I do agree with your last sentence!

you can be strategically dominant without being good socially

there can be no argument that george was the best strategic player.

think he probably is on the spectrum which explains his lack of social subtlety.

i don’t like him - his mum still does his washing? - but he deserved to win the game.
 

phantom13

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if jeff probst say


did sandra deserve to win?

does she deserve


you can be strategically dominant without being good

there can be no argument that george was the best strategic player.

think he probably is on the spectrum which explains his lack of social subtlety.

i don’t like him - his mum still does his washing? - but he deserved to win the game.
I don’t know how many more times I could possibly say this, whoever wins deserves to win. I didn’t rate Sandras game but ultimately the jury deemed her the winner (3 times from memory).

If George had won I would gladly have said he’s deserving because I respect the game and the rules, that’s in spite of not being a fan of him (or at least what we saw of him). He did deserve to win it but he also didn’t win so it’s a moot argument.
 

phantom13

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You guys will be here til Feb arguing about this :thumbsupv1:
The things that’s annoying is I’m not ******* arguing. If George had won he’d be absolutely worthy and deserving but he didn’t win so it’s pointless. Anyone saying Hailey didn’t deserve it (which I can’t say I’ve seen many of) it’s just wrong.
 

Shell

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The things that’s annoying is I’m not ******* arguing. If George had won he’d be absolutely worthy and deserving but he didn’t win so it’s pointless. Anyone saying Hailey didn’t deserve it (which I can’t say I’ve seen many of) it’s just wrong.
You quoting them? You arguing
 

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phantom13

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And now youre arguing with me if you are arguing or not
I am arguing with you cause your being a dick, not arguing with him, stating my (extremely repeated) position that whoever wins the game deserves it, George included… if he’d won.
 

Kyptastic

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Listening to George's exit interview on the Brink of Reality podcast, he claims that Phil was actually the person he wanted out at the first vote, even though it seemed on the show he was targeting Mitch. Not sure how much of that is true or George rewriting history to make himself look better.
 

checkraiseulite

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The things that’s annoying is I’m not ******* arguing. If George had won he’d be absolutely worthy and deserving but he didn’t win so it’s pointless. Anyone saying Hailey didn’t deserve it (which I can’t say I’ve seen many of) it’s just wrong.

must be nice to view the world in the way that you do - where everyone gets what they deserve.

hayley was voted out - and gifted a challenge that played to her strengths to come back in - to then get to the end by winning another challenge that catered to her strengths.

she got lucky.
 

getthefooty

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I don’t know how many more times I could possibly say this, whoever wins deserves to win. I didn’t rate Sandras game but ultimately the jury deemed her the winner (3 times from memory).

If George had won I would gladly have said he’s deserving because I respect the game and the rules, that’s in spite of not being a fan of him (or at least what we saw of him). He did deserve to win it but he also didn’t win so it’s a moot argument.

This is a bit of a get out though isn't it. Obviously the game is set up so that whoever the jury votes for wins the game, but we can still argue about the merit of the juries' vote. If everyone just said 'oh yes, Hayley deserved to win because the jury voted for her and that's the game' it would be a pretty boring discussion wouldn't it. Yes the rules are designed the way they are but we can still have an opinion that the jury f’ed it.
 

phantom13

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This is a bit of a get out though isn't it. Obviously the game is set up so that whoever the jury votes for wins the game, but we can still argue about the merit of the juries' vote. If everyone just said 'oh yes, Hayley deserved to win because the jury voted for her and that's the game' it would be a pretty boring discussion wouldn't it. Yes the rules are designed the way they are but we can still have an opinion that the jury f’ed it.
The jury really can’t fu** it. They have the final decision whether you agree with it or not. I get your point but the game states the jury decides, whoever they choose is who deserves to win. We’re saying the same thing but your implying it’s a cop out I’m saying debating it is ultimately pretty pointless.
 

phantom13

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Additionally I’m not sitting here arguing that anyone isn’t worth of winning, you can argue why you think someone played a better game for sure (most doing so in here keep forgetting the game Is more than just strategy) but I take issue with people saying anyone who won didn’t deserve it.
 

Ochre

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I don't think the jury was bitter or George had a bad FTC, he just got a bad jury draw.

When your cast is full of people like Emmett, Andrew, Gerald, Kez, Flick, Dani, Daini, Baden, Chelsea etc who don't know a thing about the show/strategy going in, you're going to end up with a jury full of people like that, people who won't give two shits about strategy when it comes to voting and just vote for the best athlete or the person they like the most.

There were very few fans on this season, but three people who were fans were George, Hayley and Simon. Hopefully the casting team can connect the dots.
 

Carbine Chaos

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Listening to George's exit interview on the Brink of Reality podcast, he claims that Phil was actually the person he wanted out at the first vote, even though it seemed on the show he was targeting Mitch. Not sure how much of that is true or George rewriting history to make himself look better.
Would seem logical to me. Mitch was never being voted out by the people left by George. As soon as he took Wai, Phil had no chance.
 

MrsEddieBetts

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George's jury management sucked. I'm sure Andrew loved being made to feel stupid about not knowing that George was hiding in the bushes. George's phrasing was shocking.
 

darko

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So there’s been 8 seasons (two were like celeb versions)

All 8 winners would be ahead of George if he loses tonight, assuming he’s the best of the rest ( strong argument he is) he’s 6th or 8th all time depending on the view of celeb versions.

There is no way you can rank Kristie or Shane above George.
 
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