Australian Vaccine Rollout

[Christopher Buttersnip]

That’s a bit tough for the Twitter bot to actually understand what they’re posting.

So says the forum troll who recycles Liberal lies and/or makes stuff up.

 

[Dry Rot]

This is not the case.

Sorry, you are wrong, and the govt is telling lies that they are approved

AZ, Pfizer, J&J and Moderna vaccines are being supplied to people under special or emergency use approvals. The word approval should really read permission here. The provisional TGA "approval" is the same here. They claim it is not, but none of these vaccines are approved in their home countries.

Info about the experimental unapproved Pfizer vaccine

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: FDA Authorizes Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine for Emergency Use in Adolescents in Another Important Action in Fight Against Pandemic

The FDA expanded the EUA for the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine for the prevention of COVID-19 to include adolescents down to 12 years of age.

www.fda.gov

Moderna

On December 18, 2020, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration issued an emergency use authorization (EUA) for the second vaccine for the prevention of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2). The emergency use authorization allows the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine to be distributed in the U.S for use in individuals 18 years of age and older.

Moderna COVID-19 Vaccines

Spikevax and Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine and Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine, Bivalent

www.fda.gov

This covers many of them

Pfizer and its vaccine partner BioNTech have started an application to request the Food and Drug Administration's approval for its COVID-19 vaccine.

Pfizer is the first coronavirus vaccine maker in the U.S. to request full approval. Like Pfizer, the Moderna and Johnson & Johnson vaccines had been previously cleared for use under the agency's emergency use authorization — a less rigorous approval method to aid a swifter response to the pandemic.

Pfizer Seeks Full FDA Approval For COVID-19 Vaccine

The agency's approval of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine — shown to be 95% effective — would go beyond the speedier and less rigorous emergency use authorization currently granted to the vaccine.

www.npr.org

So you can see that they are unapproved, rushed out and experimental.

 

[Dry Rot]

yes

but why are they forced to do so, given there is no scientific evidence to suggest there is a health benefit to patients?

Nor any approvals. It is a big world wide experiment.

 

[eddiesmith]

So says the forum troll who recycles Liberal lies and/or makes stuff up.

Says the bloke with a shorter memory than his boss

 

[Power Raid]

All those who are approved to vaccinate are required to furnish data on numbers. My GP has only recently requested approval to administer the vax and is astonished at the paperwork involved. The data concerning the vaccine usage in Aged Care is out there as part on the conditions of administering the vaccine as I understand it.

I note you only answered part of the question

1) please comment about the science. Do you feel we should force young healthy individuals to be vaccinated, exposing them to the risk of death, permanent incapacitation and brain..........because they work with people with an average 9 month life span, despite having no evidence there is a medical benefit to the people they care for? Do you live your life on the well established "vibe" theory from the castle?

That is why the stat is just a useless stat.

2) and yes you do provide your occupation but that can't trace and agree back to current workers in aged care

 

[Gough]

I note you only answered part of the question

1) please comment about the science. Do you feel we should force young healthy individuals to be vaccinated, exposing them to the risk of death, permanent incapacitation and brain..........because they work with people with an average 9 month life span, despite having no evidence there is a medical benefit to the people they care for? Do you live your life on the well established "vibe" theory from the castle?
2) and yes you do provide your occupation but that can't trace and agree back to current workers in aged care

What's happened to your deficit hawkishness mate? For the entirety of the last ALP government you bitched and moaned piosuly about how our children would be made to suffer from Labor's debt, nowadays we hardly see you on this board unless you're looking to shitcan renewable energy.

 

[Power Raid]

Nor any approvals. It is a big world wide experiment.

I don't accept it is an experiment based on the limited scope of "benefits to patients of health care workers" as the flu vax provides guidance on the matter. Why? like the flu vax, the covid jab doesn't stop one from getting the disease. Worse, as the symptoms are mild they come to work and spread the disease exposing vulnerable patients.

It does reduce sick leave but at the cost of patients


and yes the approvals were rushed. You have to ask oneself if the approvals process was compromised or the process itself is ridiculously inefficient and short cuts can be made without negative outcomes. The AZ though suggests not

 

[Chief]

but why are they forced to do so, given there is no scientific evidence to suggest there is a health benefit to patients?

What? No evidence that vaccinating the people around vulnerable people who may not be able to be vaccinated is a good idea?

Come off the grass mate.

 

[Power Raid]

What's happened to your deficit hawkishness mate? For the entirety of the last ALP government you bitched and moaned piosuly about how our children would be made to suffer from Labor's debt, nowadays we hardly see you on this board unless you're looking to shitcan renewable energy.

I note your on the bongs early Gough

Please stick to the topic of the thread but my position has not changed on debt and still believe the youth and children not yet born will be paying off debt supporting the lifestyles we are accustomed to. Imagine telling a child being born today, they have adopted their share of $1.7 trillion of federal debt, plus the state debt.

The upside for those in their 40s and 50s is we have our asset prices protected, have university qualified baristas and cheap labour to wipe our arse in aged care. When kids are wiping our arses on $10,000 an hour (the equivalent of $0.50) and paying 50% tax (to pay off debt), we can tell them what we were doing when spending their wealth and putting them into financial bondage. For you that will be great tails of giant spliffs.

I'm pro clean energy and pro renewables but I'm pro calling out bullshit statements and pro accountability. A sensible transition is inevitable but history has proven my position correct that it is not a "now now" solution.


Anyway bong boy, try and concentrate, we are in a thread on vaccines.

 

[Chief]

the govt is telling lies that they are approved

AZ, Pfizer, J&J and Moderna vaccines are being supplied to people under special or emergency use approvals

So they are approved.

 

[Power Raid]

What? No evidence that vaccinating the people around vulnerable people who may not be able to be vaccinated is a good idea?

Come off the grass mate.

I've posted support for this previously. Please feel free to find a scientific journal providing evidence to the contrary.

Alternatively, please discuss your own thoughts on how a person who is vaccinated, but has the disease comes to work spreading the disease assists patients or positively impacts patient outcomes?

 

[Chief]

discuss your own thoughts on how a person who is vaccinated, but has the disease comes to work spreading the disease assists patients or positively impacts patient outcomes?

When did this happen?

 

[Power Raid]

What? No evidence that vaccinating the people around vulnerable people who may not be able to be vaccinated is a good idea?

Come off the grass mate.

A cut and paste from a previous thread, now not open from replies




Essentially there is strong support for vaccination of hospital staff but no evidence to support better outcomes. It's almost a "it makes sense, let's do it just in case" rather than "this is tried and proven".


https://www.bmj.com/bmj/section-pdf/749788?path=/bmj/347/7933/Head_to_Head.full.pdf

The debate around compulsory influenza vaccination for healthcare workers revolves around one central question: does current scientific evidence justify over-ruling the right to informed consent to an invasive and imperfect medical procedure, with documented risks of adverse effects. Many in this debate answer in the affirmative. For them, patient safety outweighs the right of healthcare workers to refuse flu vaccines. They argue that compulsory vaccination is consistent with the ethic to “do no harm” and protects vulnerable people from contracting flu from their caregivers. The only problem is that there is no persuasive scientific evidence to support this view.

Benefits are unproved
Vaccinating healthcare workers against flu has not been shown to reduce the transmission of flu to patients. A recent Cochrane review of five studies (four cluster randomised studies and one cohort trial of nearly 20 000 healthcare workers) concluded that “there is no evidence that only vaccinating healthcare workers prevents laboratory-proven influenza or its complications.

(lower respiratory tract infection, hospitalization or death due to lower respiratory tract infection) in individuals in [long term care] and thus no evidence to mandate compulsory vaccination of healthcare workers.”26Several of Canada’s leading flu researchers have also noted the lack of evidence that vaccination of healthcare workers reduces the incidence of flu in patients.27 Even groups that support mandatory immunisation such as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)28 and Association of Medical Microbiology and Infectious Disease Canada29 have had to acknowledge the lack of data to support this assertion.

Recent studies robustly support the effectiveness of mandatory policies in improving vaccination rates.7 20- 22 Proving that vaccination of healthcare workers decreases the risk of transmission is more difficult for reasons including suboptimal immu-nisation rates, variable viral severity and vaccine effectiveness, visitor exposures, evolving labora-tory diagnostics, and the confounding effects of other infection control interventions. Nevertheless, existing research from long term care facilities sup-ports increasing healthcare workers vaccination to improve patient outcomes.

 

[campbell]

So they are approved.

Totally different than fully approved.

 

[Chief]

Totally different than fully approved.

He didn’t talk about “fully approved”.

only vaccinating healthcare workers

So... you vaccinate everyone unless it’s impossible for individuals.

This is how vaccination of a population works.

 

[Power Raid]

What? No evidence that vaccinating the people around vulnerable people who may not be able to be vaccinated is a good idea?

Come off the grass mate.

another

What, in Fact, Is the Evidence That Vaccinating Healthcare Workers against Seasonal Influenza Protects Their Patients? A Critical Review

Background and Methods. Vaccination of all healthcare workers is widely recommended by health authorities and medical institutions and support for mandatory vaccination is increasing. This paper presents the relevant literature and examines the evidence ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The present paper examined each of the arguments in favor of HCW influenza vaccination and showed that they are not supported by existing literature. The evidence base supporting vaccination is unsound and prejudiced.

The personal benefit from vaccinating healthy nonelderly adults is small and there is no evidence to show that it is any different for HCWs. The studies aiming to prove the widespread belief that staff vaccination has a substantial effect on patient morbidity and mortality are heavily flawed. No reliable evidence shows that HCW vaccination has noteworthy advantage to their patients—not in reducing patient morbidity or mortality, not in increasing patient vaccination, and not in decreasing HCW work absenteeism.

The finding that there is no valid evidence clearly supporting vaccination of HCWs does not mean that there cannot be some unproven benefit from vaccination. However, if substantial benefit exists it still needs to be demonstrated in valid studies.

This paper is of special importance due to the increasing pressure to mandate HCW vaccination. Such drastic action, at the expense of personal freedom, should not be accepted in the absence of very strong evidence for a very strong population benefit. The decision whether to vaccinate is, at present and in most situations, not a moral issue and should remain that of the individual HCW, preferably based on real information.

 

[Power Raid]

So... you vaccinate everyone unless it’s impossible for individuals.

This is how vaccination of a population works.

Not quite as not all diseases and vaccinations are the same.

In the case of the flu and covid, herd immunity does not work as the vaccination does not prevent the disease, rather it reduces the severity of the symptoms. Thus one can still catch the disease and spread the disease.

The benefits are not overwhelming the health system and hopefully reducing morbidity rates but we are unlikely to see less people catching the disease and thus we will still see the immune compromised and those with underlying health issues die.

 

[Pie eyed]

and how do you feel he should know these stats given there is a thing called medical in confidence?

further what benefit is the stat, other than knowing a stat, given there is no scientific evidence that vaccination for covid or the flu (of health workers) results in better health outcomes for patients AND the average life span in nursing homes is 9 months.

In order to gather suitable statistics for medical purposes it is not necessary to have the recipients names. just the figures.
In fact in many cases desirable to not to know the identities of the subjects.

The benefit of the stat would be so obvious to anyone with NTTAWWTteenth of a millifart of brain matter that it hardly bears printing but here goes.

"So you can tell how many you have vaccinated"

This even goes to testing the efficacy of the vaccine, something you seem concerned with.

How can you tell if the vaccine is having an effect on infection numbers if you have no idea how many people have been vaccinated.

It is the only way "You" could claim the vaccine does not work!

Just typing out rote garbage from the anti-vaccer sites made up by some imbecile over his/her muesli does not cut it for most people.

 

[Christopher Buttersnip]

My wife's boss ended up with blood clots 7-14 days post vaccination

He may or may not die but he's left brain dead after blood clots in the brain. He is leaving two teenage kids and his wife behind or worse the burden of feeding a vegetable for the rest of his life.


Personally I find it strange we are killing perfectly healthy people in their 50s and 60s to preserve the life of 70-90 yo's with underlying health issue. I'm pro vax but AZ should not be on the market.

So sorry to hear that PR.

Had Scott Mendacious accepted the offer Dr. Norman Swann has spoken about whereby Pfizer offered Australia truckloads of vaccine at the outset wanting us to (along with Israel) be the world vaccine pacesetters your wife's boss would presumably have had a choice of the Pfizer vaccine with fewer side effects and only two weeks between the first and second dose.

Why Melbourne? Dr Norman Swan explains lockdown 4.0 - ABC listen

The host of Coronacast says when it comes to the vaccine rollout, "when you talk to people on the inside they say it’s worse than you imagine it from the outside".

www.abc.net.au

Scotty Menadacious has a lot of explaining to do concerning the unnecessary suffering he and his inept, vacuous, venal government have put us through.

 

[Gough]

I note your on the bongs early Gough

Please stick to the topic of the thread but my position has not changed on debt and still believe the youth and children not yet born will be paying off debt supporting the lifestyles we are accustomed to. Imagine telling a child being born today, they have adopted their share of $1.7 trillion of federal debt, plus the state debt.

The upside for those in their 40s and 50s is we have our asset prices protected, have university qualified baristas and cheap labour to wipe our arse in aged care. When kids are wiping our arses on $10,000 an hour (the equivalent of $0.50) and paying 50% tax (to pay off debt), we can tell them what we were doing when spending their wealth and putting them into financial bondage. For you that will be great tails of giant spliffs.

I'm pro clean energy and pro renewables but I'm pro calling out bullshit statements and pro accountability. A sensible transition is inevitable but history has proven my position correct that it is not a "now now" solution.


Anyway bong boy, try and concentrate, we are in a thread on vaccines.

You don't need to be high to see that you're full of s**t.

 

[Christopher Buttersnip]

I note you only answered part of the question

1) please comment about the science. Do you feel we should force young healthy individuals to be vaccinated, exposing them to the risk of death, permanent incapacitation and brain..........because they work with people with an average 9 month life span, despite having no evidence there is a medical benefit to the people they care for? Do you live your life on the well established "vibe" theory from the castle?

That is why the stat is just a useless stat.

2) and yes you do provide your occupation but that can't trace and agree back to current workers in aged care

The post of mine related to the tweet showing the Minister not having the data on Aged Care vaccination rates. I've pointed out that I believe that raw data is available. Either he wasn't across it or his department haven't tabulated it. Either way he's inept.

The other stuff has nought to do with matter I was drawing attention to.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I note you only answered part of the question

1) please comment about the science. Do you feel we should force young healthy individuals to be vaccinated, exposing them to the risk of death, permanent incapacitation and brain..........because they work with people with an average 9 month life span, despite having no evidence there is a medical benefit to the people they care for? Do you live your life on the well established "vibe" theory from the castle?

That is why the stat is just a useless stat.

2) and yes you do provide your occupation but that can't trace and agree back to current workers in aged care

Chris is right, party.

The homes are not recording staff vaccinations, as there was no staff vaccination program. They were expected to do it in their own time, or use left over vaccine.

HOWEVER, the raw data would be buried in the vaccination data. You could extract it, but that would require knowing how to filter the 1b peeps.

Key issue is however there are mandatory registers for staff in these homes, vaccine status should have been added day one

 

[Power Raid]

In order to gather suitable statistics for medical purposes it is not necessary to have the recipients names. just the figures.
In fact in many cases desirable to not to know the identities of the subjects.

The benefit of the stat would be so obvious to anyone with NTTAWWTteenth of a millifart of brain matter that it hardly bears printing but here goes.

"So you can tell how many you have vaccinated"

This even goes to testing the efficacy of the vaccine, something you seem concerned with.

How can you tell if the vaccine is having an effect on infection numbers if you have no idea how many people have been vaccinated.

It is the only way "You" could claim the vaccine does not work!

Just typing out rote garbage from the anti-vaccer sites made up by some imbecile over his/her muesli does not cut it for most people.

Firstly I’m pro vaccination

Second I’ve posted links that provide support that the stat is an irrelevant stat due to no health outcomes for patients

 

[Power Raid]

So sorry to hear that PR.

Had Scott Mendacious accepted the offer Dr. Norman Swann has spoken about whereby Pfizer offered Australia truckloads of vaccine at the outset wanting us to (along with Israel) be the world vaccine pacesetters your wife's boss would presumably have had a choice of the Pfizer vaccine with fewer side effects and only two weeks between the first and second dose.

Why Melbourne? Dr Norman Swan explains lockdown 4.0 - ABC listen

The host of Coronacast says when it comes to the vaccine rollout, "when you talk to people on the inside they say it’s worse than you imagine it from the outside".

www.abc.net.au

Scotty Menadacious has a lot of explaining to do concerning the unnecessary suffering he and his inept, vacuous, venal government have put us through.

I understand the issue of rushing the vaccine trials and accept the risks associated with rushing.

However with the evidence being presented, I feel Australia should reconsider AZ as other jurisdictions have.

 

[Pie eyed]

Firstly I’m pro vaccination

Second I’ve posted links that provide support that the stat is an irrelevant stat due to no health outcomes for patients

It is irrelevant if you are "pro vaccination".
How do they know there is no health outcomes for patients without statistical analysis?

Explain how.
I dare you.

Then explain what "health outcomes" are.


Whether you are pro vaccination or not should not be a binary position because there are different vaccines and different things to be vaccinated against.
The only way to assess if a vaccine is effective is statistical analysis of it's effects, on a large sample.