Australia's political system is fundamentally compromised

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hamohawk1

Premiership Player
Feb 18, 2011
3,439
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Hawthorn
This issue occurs at State and Federal level, irrespective of the party in power.

Whilst each party may have its point of difference, they are all flawed by the power imposed on them by the big multinationals and powerful lobby groups (Mining, Gambling etc). Can't think of an issue that hasn't been swayed or driven in a manner which best suits the above. From a new proposed mine, climate change action, tax cuts etc. they decision making process is seemingly tailored to the interests of the 'top end of town'.

We all are lucky enough to get a say in who is in 'power' every 3/4 years, but the impact a vote has had appears to have deteriorated over time, as has Australia's notion as a 'progressive' society. It was only 40-50 years ago the nation was building housing at a rapid rate to cater for lower income households, free tertiary education, social security was readily accessible (without going through the Centrelink 'hoops', and Australian's genuinely had capacity to live a 'good' quality of life without being at the top of their respective occupation.

The USA is a prime example of where things have gone really bad a growing underclass (can be argued to be in poverty) that live a completely substandard quality of life, whilst at the opposite end of town earn more money, assets and control of society. I would hate to think Australia would be in this same position in the next 30-50 years.


I am at a loss to think of a policy in the past 30 years beyond superannuation, or the recent JobKeeper/Seeker that has brought benefit to a majority of Australians.


Seems like this has all happened while big business, and its associates have basically dismantled the political system in Australia to a big boys and girls club.

Is it cynicism, or is this Country being led down s**t creek?
 

Power Raid

TheBrownDog
Oct 15, 2004
68,283
57,896
West Perth
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
This issue occurs at State and Federal level, irrespective of the party in power.

Whilst each party may have its point of difference, they are all flawed by the power imposed on them by the big multinationals and powerful lobby groups (Mining, Gambling etc). Can't think of an issue that hasn't been swayed or driven in a manner which best suits the above. From a new proposed mine, climate change action, tax cuts etc. they decision making process is seemingly tailored to the interests of the 'top end of town'.

We all are lucky enough to get a say in who is in 'power' every 3/4 years, but the impact a vote has had appears to have deteriorated over time, as has Australia's notion as a 'progressive' society. It was only 40-50 years ago the nation was building housing at a rapid rate to cater for lower income households, free tertiary education, social security was readily accessible (without going through the Centrelink 'hoops', and Australian's genuinely had capacity to live a 'good' quality of life without being at the top of their respective occupation.

The USA is a prime example of where things have gone really bad a growing underclass (can be argued to be in poverty) that live a completely substandard quality of life, whilst at the opposite end of town earn more money, assets and control of society. I would hate to think Australia would be in this same position in the next 30-50 years.


I am at a loss to think of a policy in the past 30 years beyond superannuation, or the recent JobKeeper/Seeker that has brought benefit to a majority of Australians.


Seems like this has all happened while big business, and its associates have basically dismantled the political system in Australia to a big boys and girls club.

Is it cynicism, or is this Country being led down s**t creek?
let's not forget we still are one of the wealthiest nations on the planet

but yes, we shouldn't be complacent and reforms will be required
 

Johnny Bananas

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 10, 2010
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Whilst each party may have its point of difference, they are all flawed by the power imposed on them by the big multinationals and powerful lobby groups (Mining, Gambling etc).
The Greens don't take corporate donations.

It was only 40-50 years ago the nation was building housing at a rapid rate to cater for lower income households, free tertiary education, social security was readily accessible (without going through the Centrelink 'hoops', and Australian's genuinely had capacity to live a 'good' quality of life without being at the top of their respective occupation.
The Greens want to build 500 000 rent-controlled homes, provide free undergraduate degrees and TAFE courses, increase Newstart and single parenting payments, and provide free or low-cost services like childcare, dentistry and mental healthcare.

My point here isn't just to shill for the Greens, it's that these policies are being offered (again), and people simply don't want them, or are politically prejudiced against those who are offering them.

I am at a loss to think of a policy in the past 30 years beyond superannuation, or the recent JobKeeper/Seeker that has brought benefit to a majority of Australians.
The NBN could have been one if the Liberals hadn't kneecapped it.
 

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EDFL follower

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Apr 16, 2007
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The Greens don't take corporate donations.


The Greens want to build 500 000 rent-controlled homes, provide free undergraduate degrees and TAFE courses, increase Newstart and single parenting payments, and provide free or low-cost services like childcare, dentistry and mental healthcare.

My point here isn't just to shill for the Greens, it's that these policies are being offered (again), and people simply don't want them, or are politically prejudiced against those who are offering them.


The NBN could have been one if the Liberals hadn't kneecapped it.
And how are they going to pay for all these things? Easy to make promises when you know you have zero chance of ever being in power. I assume that they will want to tax the wealthy even more to try to create their little socialist utopia. So glad that they will never be a serious political,party in Australia.
 

Admiral Byng

Brownlow Medallist
May 3, 2009
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It was said "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury" (although there is some dispute as to whether or not this is a later misquote)

I would add another line to this: It can only exist until vested interests realise they can buy out the process"

I would suggest the following fixes:
- Funding for political parties to be provided from public funds, Donations only from private individuals, with no companies, lobby groups, or other such organisations allowed to make donations to political parties. Not ideal, I have reservations about public funding for election campaigns but I think it is the lesser of two evils.
- Federal ICAC.
 

Seeds

Hall of Famer
Sep 15, 2007
38,175
34,241
I don't know
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Geelong
This issue occurs at State and Federal level, irrespective of the party in power.

Whilst each party may have its point of difference, they are all flawed by the power imposed on them by the big multinationals and powerful lobby groups (Mining, Gambling etc). Can't think of an issue that hasn't been swayed or driven in a manner which best suits the above. From a new proposed mine, climate change action, tax cuts etc. they decision making process is seemingly tailored to the interests of the 'top end of town'.

We all are lucky enough to get a say in who is in 'power' every 3/4 years, but the impact a vote has had appears to have deteriorated over time, as has Australia's notion as a 'progressive' society. It was only 40-50 years ago the nation was building housing at a rapid rate to cater for lower income households, free tertiary education, social security was readily accessible (without going through the Centrelink 'hoops', and Australian's genuinely had capacity to live a 'good' quality of life without being at the top of their respective occupation.

The USA is a prime example of where things have gone really bad a growing underclass (can be argued to be in poverty) that live a completely substandard quality of life, whilst at the opposite end of town earn more money, assets and control of society. I would hate to think Australia would be in this same position in the next 30-50 years.


I am at a loss to think of a policy in the past 30 years beyond superannuation, or the recent JobKeeper/Seeker that has brought benefit to a majority of Australians.


Seems like this has all happened while big business, and its associates have basically dismantled the political system in Australia to a big boys and girls club.

Is it cynicism, or is this Country being led down s**t creek?
If you want to do the topic of lobbying justive rather then just be a partisan rant you need to add in unions and religious lobby groups and not just focus on corporate.
 

Seeds

Hall of Famer
Sep 15, 2007
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It was said "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury" (although there is some dispute as to whether or not this is a later misquote)

I would add another line to this: It can only exist until vested interests realise they can buy out the process"

I would suggest the following fixes:
- Funding for political parties to be provided from public funds, Donations only from private individuals, with no companies, lobby groups, or other such organisations allowed to make donations to political parties. Not ideal, I have reservations about public funding for election campaigns but I think it is the lesser of two evils.
- Federal ICAC.
Ive been pushing your first point for years. Although i would cap private donations for established parties.
 

Gethelred

Brownlow Medallist
May 1, 2016
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If you want to do the topic of lobbying justive rather then just be a partisan rant you need to add in unions and religious lobby groups and not just focus on corporate.
I think it's funny how you swanned into my thread and argued against its central premise - the opposite of this thread - and now you're in here arguing against the premise of this one, too.

And you wanted me to take your position seriously...
 

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Seeds

Hall of Famer
Sep 15, 2007
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I think it's funny how you swanned into my thread and argued against its central premise - the opposite of this thread - and now you're in here arguing against the premise of this one, too.

And you wanted me to take your position seriously...
Lol which thread was that?

i came into this thread expecting to see something about federal vs state power. Then saw it was about lobbying corrupting democracy but then realised it was just another boring partisan thread only focusing on one part of lobbying.
 

QuietB

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2008
25,838
32,083
Melbourne
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The problem with Australia's democracy, and indeed the USA and UK democracy is that two key arms of democracy are broken.
  1. Media is degenerating to the point it is completely dysfunctional or entirely compromised or irrelevant.
  2. Democratic governments become less representative in a 2 party system and they have made exploiting point 1 an art form.
Privately owned media has seen its revenue raided by the social media platforms and government has defunded the public media and this has resulted in their resourcing being hugely diminished.

Simultaneously consumption of traditional media has plummeted.

And also simultaneously politicians have learnt how to exploit the media in unprecedented ways.
  • They ignore media when they want choosing not to face questions at all resulting in little to no oversight of anything.
  • When politicians want to make a point they use the media to make their statements but completely ignore any questions or agenda's the media might have.
  • Then we have things like fake news, the fake media, perceived bias to dismiss anything politicians don't like. They don't confront issues, they simply dismiss them as false and walk away.
As a result, no one is watching the politicians. There is no oversight. An election every 4 years is not oversight.

You cannot have a proper democracy with no oversight. And with a failed media and no ICAC there is zero oversight.

And this is duly being exploited.
 

Caesar

Ex-Huckleberry
Mar 3, 2005
25,286
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Name the companies involved then.
The first donor return for the Greens I opened up listed Minax Uriel Pty Ltd, Energreen Nutrition Pty Ltd, the Electrical Trades Union and the Greens’ own incorporated body as corporate donors.

I am not quite sure why you couldn’t do that five second google yourself.
 

Johnny Bananas

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 10, 2010
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Minax Uriel Pty Ltd
A fund set up to disburse the personal wealth of a peace activist? Is that supposed to be an example of the Greens being in thrall to corporations?

Energreen Nutrition Pty Ltd
2015 was five years ago. The Greens have ceased taking donations from them to my knowledge.

the Electrical Trades Union and the Greens’ own incorporated body
Are you actually serious? You deserve to be laughed at for raising either of these as constituting vested corporate interests. A union is not a business, and the Greens donating to themselves doesn't leave them open to outside influence.

I am not quite sure why you couldn’t do that five second google yourself.
Because you're the one who accused me of lying. But all your examples are either shoddy or out of date. I had done the "five second google" myself earlier, which is how I know. Learn about what you speak before furiously typing away.
 

Johnny Bananas

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 10, 2010
6,167
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So you knew the Greens take donations from corporate entities, but deliberately lied and said they didn’t. Thanks for clearing that up.
No, but I did know that you're a BS artist of the highest order that relies on out of date information and thinks unions, personal estate funds and the Greens themselves count as corporate interests. Have you tried arguing from good faith once in a while?
 

Caesar

Ex-Huckleberry
Mar 3, 2005
25,286
10,835
Tombstone, AZ
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Western Bulldogs
thinks unions, personal estate funds and the Greens themselves count as corporate interests.
They are all corporate bodies and they all donated to the Greens. Thus, your statement that the Greens don’t accept corporate donations was either ignorance or a lie.

Don’t get pissy because I pointed out you don’t know what you’re talking about. Again.
 

Johnny Bananas

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 10, 2010
6,167
7,486
A sugar refinery
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They are all corporate bodies and they all donated to the Greens. Thus, your statement that the Greens don’t accept corporate donations was either ignorance or a lie.

Don’t get pissy because I pointed out you don’t know what you’re talking about. Again.
Don't get pissy because you don't understand context and have no idea what a union actually is. For someone with such a high opinion of themselves, you use incredibly poor examples to try and make a non-existent point.
 

Number37

Anyhow, have a Winfield 25.
Oct 5, 2013
16,967
16,832
AFL Club
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It was said "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury" (although there is some dispute as to whether or not this is a later misquote)

I would add another line to this: It can only exist until vested interests realise they can buy out the process"

I would suggest the following fixes:
- Funding for political parties to be provided from public funds, Donations only from private individuals, with no companies, lobby groups, or other such organisations allowed to make donations to political parties. Not ideal, I have reservations about public funding for election campaigns but I think it is the lesser of two evils.
- Federal ICAC.
I would add 1 thing.
After they quit politics, members of Parliament should not be allowed to work/lobby in the industry that they held a Ministerial portfolio.
 

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