Australia's World Cup path- make it a fair and decent one

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Thread starter #1
People have asked what has made it so difficult for Australia to qualify for a World Cup, and here's the answer pure and simple.

It's not for lack of quality players. It's down to the lack of a fair and decent qualifying path that enables our players to be mentally prepared, and playing as a unit. We have no idea who our final opponents will be... until just before the games! Is that fair? In contrast, our opponents- the likes of Argentina, Iran and Uruguay- have had far more preparation when they faced us.

FIFA were set to remedy the situation by giving Oceania a direct qualifying place. But this was roundly criticised, why?

Because we hear the countless cries of "Australia will walk to the World Cup" Now, people only see what they want to- I can think a dozens or so countries, thanks to FIFA's pandering, being given a free ride to the World Cup. Now I don't doubt that the Oceania region, in terms of quality, is a disgrace. There's Australia and New Zealand, but that's about it for internationally competitive sides.

Everything is relative, and it's easy to see that the AFC and CONCACAF regions aren't particularly high quality either bar a few teams. They get 3 or 4 places in the WC, which means that if you're a half-decent team you'd be nuts not to qualify. This is done for one reason only- money. The size of these regions, population wise, makes it a gold mine for FIFA. Even COMNEBOL (South America) gets a disproportionate number of qualifying places for its membership- again to ensure that Brazil and Argentina always qualify.

This isn't to say there aren't quality teams or quality players in those regions, but that they are given favourable treatment by a governing body which really doesn't care so much about quality of play but see dollar signs in their eyes.

We know that a full strength Australia has rarely, if ever, been disgraced at the highest level- yet we've never been given a fair chance by FIFA to show it in competitive games.

In 1993, we were eliminated only by an own goal vs an Argentina side which then boasted Diego Maradona (an Argentinian mate told me that he thought their '94 side was better than the '86 and '90 ones).

In 1997, we had the World Cup in our sights, only to lose to Iran on away goals. It was heartbreaking, but can only happen in a two-legged affair. And Iran weren't a bad side either- in fact they went on to be by and far the best Asian team in France '98.

2001 saw us get beaten in Montevideo- we got dragged over the coals for this, but yet Argentina and Brazil couldn't win their either and still qualified.

So what solution could be proposed?

1) FIFA should not have reversed its decision to give us a direct qualifying place.

2) Australia and New Zealand should consider joining another confederation.

Solution number 2 is the most sensible of any of the solutions proposed, and one we've been looking at for years. I highly doubt that the AFC or CONCACAF would want us, for fear we would dominate either of those confederations.
 

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sebastien

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#2
Is FIFA still gonna set up a qualifying group consisting teams from four continents, including Oceania? It would be a good idea as we should beat the Asian and North American teams anyway

If not I reckon we should join the AFC, since we should be able to beat most of the teams besides Japan and Korea.

The CONCAFAF option is also feasible, as they get three spots which I still dont understand why. The only strong team in that region is Mexico, even though the US is not too bad.
 
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Thread starter #3
My solution would be a combined AFC/OFC qualifying group. 10 Asian groups and 2 Oceanian groups, the 12 group winners go into two groups of six teams each with the top two automatically qualifying.

A combined CONCACAF/OFC group could have six CONCACAF teams and two Oceanian teams in two groups of four teams each. Winners qualify, runners-up play-off.

Another idea would be to merge CONCACAF and COMNEBOL (which would be a big now with the powers that be in South America) into a single American confederation.
 

Weaver

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#4
Direct qualification wouldn't have helped us much. Our problem is a lack of competitive matches, if we directly qualified we would embarrass ourselves on the back of a preperation of 2 competitive matches and 3 or 4 friendlies.

Joining Asia is a pipe dream because they don't want us, but a joint AFC / OFC qualifing group has to be the aim.

I also think we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves. South Korea, Japan and China are almost certainly better than us.
 

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#5
Originally posted by Weaver
I also think we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves. South Korea, Japan and China are almost certainly better than us.
I think we will be able to beat China, their team is still developing and has a fairly long way to go. The only problem might be their home ground advantage

We will be one of the top teams should the OFC and AFC qualifications are merged. Japan and Korea may be better than us but it is certainly possible for us to beat them
 

tribey

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#6
Originally posted by Weaver
I also think we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves. South Korea, Japan and China are almost certainly better than us.
That is pure bullsh|t. Seriously...

If we could get our best side on the park it would realistically look like this - and please none of this "Farina wouldn't select that" crap - I'm talking about our very best side regardless of who is manager:

GK: Kalac (Perugia)
LB: Lazaridis (Birmingham)
CB: Moore (Rangers)
CB: Popovic (Crystal Palace)
RB: Neill (Blackburn)
LM: Kewell (Liverpool)
CM: Bresciano (Parma)
CM: Grella (Empoli)
RM: Emerton (Blackburn)
F: Viduka (Leeds United)
F: Agostino (1860 Munich)

Now please... how would China beat that? 3 Serie A first teamers alone.

And Japan? Inamoto? Nakata?... Those old chestnuts?

South Korea?? Remember that if we met them they probably couldn't count on 1000 disallowed goals this time around.

We would DESTROY anything Asia put up. Only a fool would disagree.
 
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Thread starter #7
And another thing...

A Brazilian WC-winning centre-back by the name of Roque Junior is having an absolute nightmare in the Premiership.

Meanwhile, I can't think of any of Australia's foreign contingent which has been putting a foot wrong lately.
 

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#8
Originally posted by David Votoupal
Meanwhile, I can't think of any of Australia's foreign contingent which has been putting a foot wrong lately.
I guess I was a little strong in my earlier post but DV makes a good point.

I'm just sick of people saying our national team wouldn't beat teams which quite frankly, are nothing more than middling rubbish who would kill to be able to produce and deploy the talent we have.
 

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#9
Agree with dyertribe. On paper, our team is far superior to every team from the Oceanian and Asian conferences - Japan would probably mount a challenge but that's it. I know I said on paper, but I seriously have a feeling that we're building something with this current group. Kewell (24), Moore (27), Neill (25), Viduka (27), Bresciano (23), Grella (23), Emerton (24)... even Stan the Man and Paul Okon playing good football, this is clearly a group primed for Germany and hopefully for a final tilt in 2010, for some of them. All we need is an appropriate path, with some challenging contests on the way and we can do some damage in 2006.
 

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#10
Originally posted by dyertribe
I'm just sick of people saying our national team wouldn't beat teams which quite frankly, are nothing more than middling rubbish who would kill to be able to produce and deploy the talent we have.
We did beat England 3-1 at Upton Park :)
However, since our national team is strong, the AFC will try their best to reject us and we may have to play South Americans again...
 

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#11
If FIFA go to the qualifying group with the countries from the 4 confederations with the half qualifying spot we can't complain. Australia rightly doesn't have much pull we haven't qualified since 1974 and New Zealand qualified in 1982 - long time between drinks for Oceania.
 

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#12
Originally posted by dyertribe

I'm just sick of people saying our national team wouldn't beat teams which quite frankly, are nothing more than middling rubbish who would kill to be able to produce and deploy the talent we have.

2001
South Korea 1 Australia 0

2000
South Korea 4 Australia 2
Australia U23 0 South Korea U23 3

1999
Australia U23 0 South Korea U23 1
Australia U23 0 South Korea U23 2
Australia U20 2 South Korea 3
 
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Thread starter #13
AFAIK, in most of our recent games with South Korea and Japan we weren't at full strength while they more or less were...
 

Portmanteau

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#14
Weaver, quit living in the past, mate...

Harry Kewell, Marco Bresciano and Brett Emerton are entering the prime of their careers. These are impact players that we have truly lacked previously. In times past, our team has simply been a bunch of "pass the buck" types, namely Paul Okon, Jo Skoko, Stan Lazirdis. These guys make things happen.

Kewell is amongst the cream of the EPL, and our linchpin. But now he has a support cast who are actually playmakers in their own right, and can put the opposition goal under immense pressure. I'd go as far as to say that our midfield is as good as England's, except we don't have plodders on the left. Our defence and attack are slightly lacking, but can certainly hold their own.

Give these guys some quality friendlies, and it will be the best team Australia has ever produced, hopefully resulting in World Cup qualification.
 

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#15
Originally posted by Bresh
Weaver, quit living in the past, mate...
People like to whinge that Australia get paid no respect on the world stage by the 'big' nations, then go out and do the same thing by not respecting nations we think we are better than.

International soccer is geting more and more competitive. There are dozens of nations who can draw 11 men from the top 3 or 4 leagues in the world.

We don't have plodders on the left? Tiatto, Lazaridis, Chipperfield, Vidmar? Handy but hardly world-class.

We are a good mid-rank team. On our day we could beat the likes of South Korea, Japan and China. Equally on their day we could lose to Iran or Suadi Arabia.

I agree that it is Australia's best ever team and that with competitive matches we might go on to qualify for Europe. There are however more and more good competitive teams out there and it is getting harder every year.
 

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#16
Firstly Oceania didn't deserve the direct qualifacation.
Australia's problem is they dont play enough games & when they do there only friendlies which matter for zero.
Secondly i know this wont happen but Oceania should merge with the Asian confederation this would give us heaps more games and a fairer chance to qualify.
 
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Thread starter #17
Originally posted by muesli
Firstly Oceania didn't deserve the direct qualifacation.
Australia's problem is they dont play enough games & when they do there only friendlies which matter for zero.
Secondly i know this wont happen but Oceania should merge with the Asian confederation this would give us heaps more games and a fairer chance to qualify.
That's something we've been hearing for ages now.

(1) yes, we all know that Oceania is a weak, uncompetitive region and that a huge chasm exists but let's be honest- everything is relative, and don't huge gaps exist in other regions too?

(2) we've wanted a merger between Oceania and Asia for years now, only thing is, they've never wanted any part of it.

Which means we'll continue to get screwed over while FIFA rakes up cash from those oh so lucrative markets...
 

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#18
The four way playoff is an 'ideal' scenario given we have been screwed by the corrupt Blatter and his mates - but it won't happen. The playoff schedule for the other confederates has already being confirmed, no time to slot in another 4 games now.

What has the Oceania Football Confederation ever done for Australian soccer? Nothing.

As Johnny Warren has been saying for years - Asia is the answer. They may not want us now, but if we can provide even an extra half spot watch them come running.
 

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#21
Originally posted by Weaver
On our day we could beat the likes of South Korea, Japan and China. Equally on their day we could lose to Iran or Suadi Arabia.
Saudi Arabia? No... we'd run up a cricket score against the Saudis just like everyone else has.

At this point we have guys who are first teamers in La Liga, Bundesliga, EPL, SPL and Serie A who can't make our first team at present. That speaks volumes for our current depth and talent.

With our first team on the park, fair preparation and equal opportunity we would obliterate anything from the AFC.
 

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#22
I agree with most of you in saying that our talent is at least as good as anything Asia has to offer. Of course the problem is getting us playing lots of competitive matches. I'd love to join Asia. Imagine having, say, 4 home games in the qualifying process against Korea, China, Japan etc, games that really mean something. It'd be magical. And our team would improve like you wouldn't believe. And then we'd qualify. And then we'd have thousands and thousands of kids playing soccer. And then we'd be in a position to host the world cup, and one day (maybe not in our lifetimes) win it! :)

Goalden Hawk - why can't we provide Asia with an extra half spot? That's what we've got now so why couldn't we do this?
 

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#23
Originally posted by The Spornstar
I agree with most of you in saying that our talent is at least as good as anything Asia has to offer. Of course the problem is getting us playing lots of competitive matches. I'd love to join Asia. Imagine having, say, 4 home games in the qualifying process against Korea, China, Japan etc, games that really mean something. It'd be magical. And our team would improve like you wouldn't believe. And then we'd qualify. And then we'd have thousands and thousands of kids playing soccer. And then we'd be in a position to host the world cup, and one day (maybe not in our lifetimes) win it! :)

Goalden Hawk - why can't we provide Asia with an extra half spot? That's what we've got now so why couldn't we do this?
Becuse it's not up to Australia - it's up to Oceania. And the likes of Tonga and that realise if Australia leave to Asia they really are stuffed.

If we take our 1/2 spot across as part of the final group stage in Asia it would surely work. Let the likes of American Samoa play off against the Maldives and Nepal.
 

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#24
Originally posted by GOALden Hawk
Becuse it's not up to Australia - it's up to Oceania. And the likes of Tonga and that realise if Australia leave to Asia they really are stuffed.

If we take our 1/2 spot across as part of the final group stage in Asia it would surely work. Let the likes of American Samoa play off against the Maldives and Nepal.
Yes it should work that way.

You're right, the OFC have done stuff all for Australian soccer.
 

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#25
Originally posted by The Spornstar
Imagine having, say, 4 home games in the qualifying process against Korea, China, Japan etc, games that really mean something.
That said there is no gaurentee that Kewell and co are any more likely to turn up for Laos - Australia than they are for Fiji - Australia. The current scenario we have now of players skipping the Oceania qualifiers and turning up for the WC play-offs wouldn't change much.

The real advantage of joining Asia would be the chance to play in the Asian championships. That would give us an extra competitive tournament to play in, and mean that we don't go 3 years without competitive matches.

The 2 best North American teams have been playing as guests in the South American championships for a while. One year they even invited Japan. Perhaps we could get ourselves an invite to the African, Asian or South American championships one year.
 
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