Roast Autopsy Collingferals def Dogs

[Doggy]

Young is terrible, terrible one on one. He's ok as an intercepting defender but for mine the jury is out. He is very young though so has some years on his side to develop.

A forward we made a defender

 

[SCRAY72]

A forward we made a defender

Spot on. Played his junior footy as a forward.
Very mobile when he plays and covers of lot of territory.

 

[Mr. Walker]

Spot on. Played his junior footy as a forward.
Very mobile when he plays and covers of lot of territory.

Not having a go but isn't it the case that most non-ruck talls all play their junior footy as defenders?

 

[Next Waiting]

Fast becoming one of my favourites - particularly love his ability to deliver collateral damage.

Somewhat ironically he got a taste of his own medicine against the Pies courtesy of Grundy's knee. However, he was entitled to significantly more protection than Roughy afforded him.

Further to that I wish I could lip read. If you look for the starting point of where it all turned to s**t (excluding match committee) I believe you'll find it at the point that Grundy puts his knee into the back of Cordy's head causing the concussion. Roughy needed to get body on Grundy to stop him but didn't and Grundy got a free hit (and nailed it).

About 5 mins later Roughy goes to the bench sore but seemingly fails to communicate effectively with his replacement leaving Bont to match up on Grundy. A min later a concussed Cordy kicks out on the full. From the kick in Trengove leaves his man (Cox) to help an affected Cordy spoil. They stuff it up, an unmanned Cox receives the handball inside 50 who gives off to Treloar galloping into goal. Bont couldn't do anything but stay with Grundy who was heading to goal also.

The phone conversation that happened between Bevo and Roughy immediately after looked very frank. Something something....Roughy talks...THAT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH..end conversation...Roughy looks a bit whipped and more pale than usual. Cordy retires. It was pretty much downhill from there.

 

[perro_loco]

Young is terrible, terrible one on one. He's ok as an intercepting defender but for mine the jury is out. He is very young though so has some years on his side to develop.

I think the key word is that he is just a kid, who got thrown in at the deep end. he did well but then the game caught him and his inexperience showed. he needs more time and as you say, he is just still a kid.

 

[BRWB]

I think the key word is that he is just a kid, who got thrown in at the deep end. he did well but then the game caught him and his inexperience showed. he needs more time and as you say, he is just still a kid.

Yeah talls take time...

For perspective, at about Young's age Zaine was knocking out Ward in a PF and kicking our first goal in a GF...

 

[perro_loco]

Yeah talls take time...

For perspective, at about Young's age Zaine was knocking out Ward in a PF and kicking our first goal in a GF...

corny is one of my favourites. his advantage over young is that in 2016 he was playing in a great side. young is not, we are clearly developing and we are going to be really good.

 

[cecil]

Young is terrible, terrible one on one. He's ok as an intercepting defender but for mine the jury is out. He is very young though so has some years on his side to develop.

Yep his best games were when he took Wood's role as an intercept player. His strength is reading the ball well, which he does amazingly well for his age. You'd hope he's stronger in the contest as he gets older, and I guess it is a more learnable skill. Kicking not so much. It's worrying because it's his short kicking too, same as Naughton.

 

[dergert]

Strong sides are built from defence first. We have top line key defender talent in naughton, Adams, young, cordy and trengove. We need a smaller lockdown one IMO, plus we will gain a dashing one in the draft.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Somewhat ironically he got a taste of his own medicine against the Pies courtesy of Grundy's knee. However, he was entitled to significantly more protection than Roughy afforded him.

Further to that I wish I could lip read. If you look for the starting point of where it all turned to s**t (excluding match committee) I believe you'll find it at the point that Grundy puts his knee into the back of Cordy's head causing the concussion. Roughy needed to get body on Grundy to stop him but didn't and Grundy got a free hit (and nailed it).

About 5 mins later Roughy goes to the bench sore but seemingly fails to communicate effectively with his replacement leaving Bont to match up on Grundy. A min later a concussed Cordy kicks out on the full. From the kick in Trengove leaves his man (Cox) to help an affected Cordy spoil. They stuff it up, an unmanned Cox receives the handball inside 50 who gives off to Treloar galloping into goal. Bont couldn't do anything but stay with Grundy who was heading to goal also.

The phone conversation that happened between Bevo and Roughy immediately after looked very frank. Something something....Roughy talks...THAT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH..end conversation...Roughy looks a bit whipped and more pale than usual. Cordy retires. It was pretty much downhill from there.

Yes, I saw that too, thanks for filling in the details of what led up to it. Shortly after, Roughy kicked a goal (or 2?), but it was all too late. Losing Zaine upset the structure and our (dumb?) players weren't able to improvise a decent set up.

 

[Tommycash]

Yeah talls take time...

For perspective, at about Young's age Zaine was knocking out Ward in a PF and kicking our first goal in a GF...

Lewis Young: Height 197 cm

Zaine Cordy: Height 193 cm

Zaine is not what is considered a tall in today's game. Same height as Bont. I don't think it is fair to compare them.

 

[JiggaDog]

I think I got to page 11 and stopped reading ...

The way I see it .... Bevo got us a premiership with a side he didn't build himself but willed the very best from. God bless the man ... I'm not sure too many other coaches would have got us the flag.

Now, after retirements, injuries (some of which will lead to further retirements) and a not so healthy dose of premiership hangover (admit it - how satisfied were you - there would be some reflection in the players too) we find ourselves cleaning house and building a new list - one that Bevo has a hand in selecting and is teaching to play his way.

It might take another year or two .... or four (hopefully not), but we need to stay the course. Trust in our coach who in just his second season, delivered a flag to a club that had been waiting 62 years, and give him a chance to build his own list, whom he can mold into own his vision and deliver us not just another flag but a chance at a dynasty.

P.S. I am guilty of feeling satiated with a flag all through last year. Over that now and hungry for much more.

 

[JiggaDog]

I dunno. I think he's okay in pure one-on-one contests, but he's god awful, even by KPD standards, with ball in hand, doesn't offer any intercept/rebound whatsoever. And he doesn't zone off. In the 1st quarter he nearly cost us a goal with his decision to spoil back to the goalsquare (!).

I also get the feeling despite being young by KPD standards his ceiling isn't that high, because he's not that tall, he's not that quick, etc. he's already played quite a few games in that role.

I know Young gets killed, in fact, I was saying it last year. But part of that was he was incredibly raw, quite literally the youngest player on an AFL list last year, December birthday (which actually matters), so despite those terrible performances, I'm thinking, here's a bloke with a limitless ceiling, incredibly more athletic than Cordy, offers more rebound and intercept as opposed to pure lockdown, and if we get 50 games into this bloke as a KPD he could be a real asset. While with Cordy, he's limited with that ceiling. Cordy is only about 192-3 cm tall. Young's in the 198cm range, is quicker, has a bigger leap. Young's already a much, much better decision maker and skilled player attacking with ball in hand.

To prove that point - Cordy had just the 1 intercept possession this game, which for a KPD, is atrocious. Where's the intercept rebounding which is so critical for KPD's? Averaging 5.9 per game, that ranks him 67th in the league players that average more than him this season include Andy Otten, Dougal Howard, Jack Henry, Tom Cole, Joel Hamling, Matt Eagles, Darcy Gardiner, Aaron Naughton, David Astbury, and so on and so forth.

He's comparable as a player as Nathan Brown for the Saints, in terms of how ineffectual he is at anything other than locking down, and that's not a good thing.

Further to this, he's given away 8 frees against in 9 games when he gave away 11 in 20 last year, has laid only 13 tackles in 9 games when he laid 49 last year, and whilst he's averaging 1 more disposal, that's accounted for by the fact he's also averaging 0.9 more non-frees against-clanger, which means that on his disposal averages last year, he's actually using the ball worse.

I mean, I'm not saying Cordy doesn't compete in contests, and he holds his own there, but that's only one aspect of being a KPD and he's so much more vanilla in so many aspects - using pace to get to contests, leaping ability, intercepting and quickly rebounding, etc. etc.

So if he's a low-tackling, poor-ball-using (even by KPD standards), only moderately-intercepting, has an athletic ceiling to how good he can be, poorer than he was last year in ancillary things like not giving away free kicks (in marking contests) or laying tackles, and with being "competitor" in defensive marking contests being the only thing that he can be praised for, I really don't see why it's so blasphemous to suggest that he's that's under the pump and isn't that valuable to the team.

And I'm saying this as a write-off of a season. Two weeks ago, I thought if we could pinch one of these two upcoming games, I'd have us a 15-20% chance of making finals. Now it's down to about 3-5%. I can honestly see Young being marginally more likely to be in our premiership team in four years time, with our incredibly young team, if it came down to him and Cordy.

With Adams, Naughton and Morris returning in the next month and me arguing that Young should get a game over him (even though neither might), I'm genuine in saying that I wouldn't be disappointed if he doesn't even get another game for the rest of the season unless he's absolutely knocking down the door with BOG VFL performances.

And hey - we should have beat Sydney for what was arguably our one and only good game for the season without him, so that surely counts for something?

Just wondering how Dale Morris fairs in this analysis?

(pretty sure it will show stats does not the player make)