Autopsy Autopsy vs Fremantle

[Gumble Frankieton]

Is any team fielding a worse bunch of players over the age of 26? That's your sweet spot for performance and onfield leadership.



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It’s pretty thin gruel here, The Axis of Ordinary if you will:

Turner 26
Corr 27
LMac 27
Jed *28
Polec 29 (inj, but meh)
Walker 29
Cunnington 30* (cancer)
Greenwood 30
Hall 31* (inj)
Ziebell 31
Goldy 33

* = injured/unavailable or just returned from injury. Outside of these blokes only LMac can really hold his head high. Goldy needs to mainly play in the ruck if he plays. Corr will hopefully improve.

 

[WayneShimmiesTheBush]

It's become embarrassing. And I mean embarrassing in the way some players are just strolling around on the field and looking disinterested (with the exception of a few). I hate losing as much as any other supporter, however I will accept it a lot more if I see that players have put in an effort. I am currently not seeing this (apart from a few). We look like the most disinterested, directionless and dumbest (football IQ) team in the comp.

Our players also look so robotic out there. They do not look they are playing on their instincts. There is just too much hesitancy and reactive football being played. What I want to see is game where every player is accountable for their opponent. I know we cant win every position on the field but at least I want to make sure the opponent has earned each possession they get. Playing zonal football always gives players a way out of being accountable for their opponent.

A few points I have observed this year are:

• Jack Ziebell should not have been appointed captain. I have loved the way Jack has bled for the club but this was a mistake. He just looks finished out there and we should have just started the next chapter of our team and appointed Jy. People might say Jy hasn't deserved it but I think the young guys would have been all in on this.
• To start with, Walker, Turner, Atu and Young should be names on the delisted list at years end. This is nothing personal and might seem harsh but these players aren't going to take us forward. We have been too kind over the years and kept onto players that are just not good enough and I just dont see it in them. They are not best 22.
• Todd Goldstein looks like he has thrown the toys out of the cot because he is no longer viewed as our number 1 ruck because we want to start looking at the future. Well Todd, you have been a good warrior but if you think this is unfair, go and have a chat to Boomer about what is unfair. Boomer would still probably be our best small forward now.
• I know Noble wants players to be versatile but there comes a time where you have to allow the player to make a position his own. For example Perez, should be told HBF is yours. Let him play there for the rest of the year and see how he goes.
• Greenwood was brought in to help the kids but I hope Noble is man enough to drop him even though it was his call to bring him to the club. He has looked cooked out there. Maybe he is injured but you cant have so many slow paced players in the team at the same time. Its making us look like a laughing stock out there. Its time to tell Powell that he is in for the rest of the year. It couldn't get any worse than what it is now, plus we get games into him.
• When Ford gets back, he stays in the team for the rest of the year. You can see he has talent and should be afforded and extended time in the firsts. I would also be playing Comben for the rest of they year.
• Scott, Taylor, Bergman and all of our players that look like they play for the under 15's, should be introduced to Weight Gain 5000 and put in the gym non-stop for the next 6 months. They should be put on a diet of two shakes a day with added scoop of ice cream and one egg for the next 6 months. I am baffled (especially Scott and Taylor) how they have no definition after being in the system this long.
• Its time to make JFH our vice captain. Get him into the leadership team. This guy is going to be the reason we go places and I hope we don't stuff this up and get him to commit to the long term contract.
• If you thought in the 90's it was no Carey no North, fast forward 20 years and it is no Cunners no North. Cunners is the solution to a lot of our problems. His health is the number one priority but from a selfish football point of view, I really hope he goes on next year. In fact I would be thrilled if he signed a two/three year extension.

Finally I know a lot of fans are frustrated as hell and we have reason to be but as a few have already said, this will turn around. I like many have been through some dark years following the club but we have also experienced the highs. We have a talented bunch of kids that are too good to be this sh*t. I don't know if Noble is the right guy to lead us out of this or if its someone else. All I know is that this isn't the time to jump ship just because things aren't going well, we need to stick this out.

 

[Mr Lloyd Christmas]

I actually watched the replay of the game this morning (yeah, quite alarming human behaviour I know)

Turner was better defensively than I initially thought. Maybe prior weeks affected my initial judgement of his performance.

Tried to really focus on our running patterns rather than individual performance however - i've reached two conclusions;

1. We are too slow and reactive, so whatever gameplan Noble is trying to create we simply don't have the leg speed to implement it. This is a list issue as much as a coaching issue.

2. We are getting outworked regardless of the lack of leg speed. Too often players are not putting in second or third efforts, or running hard enough to create space. This is unacceptable at any level of football, no excuses and the players must work harder and/or the coach must implement better/higher standards.

 

[Sphynx]

It's become embarrassing. And I mean embarrassing in the way some players are just strolling around on the field and looking disinterested (with the exception of a few). I hate losing as much as any other supporter, however I will accept it a lot more if I see that players have put in an effort. I am currently not seeing this (apart from a few). We look like the most disinterested, directionless and dumbest (football IQ) team in the comp.

Our players also look so robotic out there. They do not look they are playing on their instincts. There is just too much hesitancy and reactive football being played. What I want to see is game where every player is accountable for their opponent. I know we cant win every position on the field but at least I want to make sure the opponent has earned each possession they get. Playing zonal football always gives players a way out of being accountable for their opponent.

A few points I have observed this year are:

• Jack Ziebell should not have been appointed captain. I have loved the way Jack has bled for the club but this was a mistake. He just looks finished out there and we should have just started the next chapter of our team and appointed Jy. People might say Jy hasn't deserved it but I think the young guys would have been all in on this.
• To start with, Walker, Turner, Atu and Young should be names on the delisted list at years end. This is nothing personal and might seem harsh but these players aren't going to take us forward. We have been too kind over the years and kept onto players that are just not good enough and I just dont see it in them. They are not best 22.
• Todd Goldstein looks like he has thrown the toys out of the cot because he is no longer viewed as our number 1 ruck because we want to start looking at the future. Well Todd, you have been a good warrior but if you think this is unfair, go and have a chat to Boomer about what is unfair. Boomer would still probably be our best small forward now.
• I know Noble wants players to be versatile but there comes a time where you have to allow the player to make a position his own. For example Perez, should be told HBF is yours. Let him play there for the rest of the year and see how he goes.
• Greenwood was brought in to help the kids but I hope Noble is man enough to drop him even though it was his call to bring him to the club. He has looked cooked out there. Maybe he is injured but you cant have so many slow paced players in the team at the same time. Its making us look like a laughing stock out there. Its time to tell Powell that he is in for the rest of the year. It couldn't get any worse than what it is now, plus we get games into him.
• When Ford gets back, he stays in the team for the rest of the year. You can see he has talent and should be afforded and extended time in the firsts. I would also be playing Comben for the rest of they year.
• Scott, Taylor, Bergman and all of our players that look like they play for the under 15's, should be introduced to Weight Gain 5000 and put in the gym non-stop for the next 6 months. They should be put on a diet of two shakes a day with added scoop of ice cream and one egg for the next 6 months. I am baffled (especially Scott and Taylor) how they have no definition after being in the system this long.
• Its time to make JFH our vice captain. Get him into the leadership team. This guy is going to be the reason we go places and I hope we don't stuff this up and get him to commit to the long term contract.
• If you thought in the 90's it was no Carey no North, fast forward 20 years and it is no Cunners no North. Cunners is the solution to a lot of our problems. His health is the number one priority but from a selfish football point of view, I really hope he goes on next year. In fact I would be thrilled if he signed a two/three year extension.

Finally I know a lot of fans are frustrated as hell and we have reason to be but as a few have already said, this will turn around. I like many have been through some dark years following the club but we have also experienced the highs. We have a talented bunch of kids that are too good to be this sh*t. I don't know if Noble is the right guy to lead us out of this or if its someone else. All I know is that this isn't the time to jump ship just because things aren't going well, we need to stick this out.

A few of us on here have been saying it for years, but a gig at North is one of the easiest in the AFL (cue jokes about Brad Scott's goal for each player revolving about their property portfolio's...but there's certainly some truth to it).

- Unbelievable loyalty to average players for the most part. See Kane Turner as a current example. A career average of 11 disposals and 0.5 goals a game for a guy who has played as a small forward for most of his career, yet he's played most of the games he's been fit for since his second season. Jamie MacMillan, Shaun Atley etc fitted into this space.

- Very little media scrutiny for any of their performances compared to other Melbourne based players/clubs.

- Very little internal desire to be elite players, simply being "good ordinary" AFL players seems to have sufficed for years.



Luke McDonald another good example. He won a B&F's, yes, however, he's been a pretty run of the mill AFL player and he's just turned 27, he's been in the system for 9 years ffs...

We have had so many players over the last 15 years just content being solid AFL players and collecting pay cheques, buying houses and starting families....

Zurhaar and Larkey turn 24 in a month, Simpkin and Buckets did a few months ago, all of these guys should be putting out career best seasons and entering the start of their best 3-4 years of football.

LDU is in his 5th season....


There's no excuse for these guys tbh...

 

[archerboy]

A few of us on here have been saying it for years, but a gig at North is one of the easiest in the AFL (cue jokes about Brad Scott's goal for each player revolving about their property portfolio's...but there's certainly some truth to it).

- Unbelievable loyalty to average players for the most part. See Kane Turner as a current example. A career average of 11 disposals and 0.5 goals a game for a guy who has played as a small forward for most of his career, yet he's played most of the games he's been fit for since his second season. Jamie MacMillan, Shaun Atley etc fitted into this space.

- Very little media scrutiny for any of their performances compared to other Melbourne based players/clubs.

- Very little internal desire to be elite players, simply being "good ordinary" AFL players seems to have sufficed for years.



Luke McDonald another good example. He won a B&F's, yes, however, he's been a pretty run of the mill AFL player and he's just turned 27, he's been in the system for 9 years ffs...

We have had so many players over the last 15 years just content being solid AFL players and collecting pay cheques, buying houses and starting families....

Zurhaar and Larkey turn 24 in a month, Simpkin and Buckets did a few months ago, all of these guys should be putting out career best seasons and entering the start of their best 3-4 years of football.

LDU is in his 5th season....


There's no excuse for these guys tbh...

 

[r_boy]

A few of us on here have been saying it for years, but a gig at North is one of the easiest in the AFL (cue jokes about Brad Scott's goal for each player revolving about their property portfolio's...but there's certainly some truth to it).

- Unbelievable loyalty to average players for the most part. See Kane Turner as a current example. A career average of 11 disposals and 0.5 goals a game for a guy who has played as a small forward for most of his career, yet he's played most of the games he's been fit for since his second season. Jamie MacMillan, Shaun Atley etc fitted into this space.

- Very little media scrutiny for any of their performances compared to other Melbourne based players/clubs.

- Very little internal desire to be elite players, simply being "good ordinary" AFL players seems to have sufficed for years.



Luke McDonald another good example. He won a B&F's, yes, however, he's been a pretty run of the mill AFL player and he's just turned 27, he's been in the system for 9 years ffs...

We have had so many players over the last 15 years just content being solid AFL players and collecting pay cheques, buying houses and starting families....

Zurhaar and Larkey turn 24 in a month, Simpkin and Buckets did a few months ago, all of these guys should be putting out career best seasons and entering the start of their best 3-4 years of football.

LDU is in his 5th season....


There's no excuse for these guys tbh...

Agreed and I think the standards Noble is setting might be coming as a shock to the internal culture.

 

[giantroo]

 

[Mr Lloyd Christmas]

I actually watched the replay of the game this morning (yeah, quite alarming human behaviour I know)

Turner was better defensively than I initially thought. Maybe prior weeks affected my initial judgement of his performance.

Tried to really focus on our running patterns rather than individual performance however - i've reached two conclusions;

1. We are too slow and reactive, so whatever gameplan Noble is trying to create we simply don't have the leg speed to implement it. This is a list issue as much as a coaching issue.

2. We are getting outworked regardless of the lack of leg speed. Too often players are not putting in second or third efforts, or running hard enough to create space. This is unacceptable at any level of football, no excuses and the players must work harder and/or the coach must implement better/higher standards.

Further to my observations in this post I forgot one which has bewildered me for some time. (previous years too)

Our forwards seem to rarely be in front or the right position when the ball is being delivered.

I understand Larkey was out, but he is a key offender anyway as calls the ball out the back far too often.

It's easy to blame the midfielders for "poor quality delivery" yet if no-one is presenting in front of their man or creating space what are they supposed to do?

I haven't seen a game live this year so maybe it's different in person but our forward line seem to be behind or passive far too often.

 

[archereleven]

Apparently Goldy's manager has been advised that we won't be offering him another contract. Noble is driving this. That being the case, his motivation levels may not be overly high, although that's still pretty poor from him

If he wants another contract elsewhere, isn't it in his best interests to play well? He'll be 34 in a couple if months...

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[Themanbun]

Apparently Goldy's manager has been advised that we won't be offering him another contract. Noble is driving this. That being the case, his motivation levels may not be overly high, although that's still pretty poor from him

Look, depending on how those contract negotiations are conducted, players can 100% lose confidence in their own ability during the season.

It may be hard to distinguish lack of motivation (crap when you're getting paid to do a job) versus confidence being crushed.

Considering he wants to play on, playing crap isn't in his interests so maybe it's not motivation.

 

[archereleven]

Rubbish. Brodie is being used to his strengths but without a doubt Freo are playing to cover his weaknesses. They have mids who can push hard to cover up his lack of running ability. They have a good solid unit of defensive mids and wings who will allow a Brodie type to ball chase inside and then catch his breath.

That's what good teams do, they can utilise strengths.

Brodie at North would look like trash. We'd be fuming at high anytime he didn't win the ball.

I like Brodie, all credit to him, but he's a player that needs a good system around him quite clearly.

I'm not buying what you're selling...

The fact he came with pick 19 is a GIFT we didn't take advantage of. Just out and out dumb from the list management team especially when we handed our 2nd to Punt Rd.

His strengths far outweigh his weakness and he would do quite well in our midfield imo.
Jy wouldn't be under such pressure to find the ball, he along with others would be allowed the clearance possession on the outside more often.
Brodie isn't Cunners, but he finds the pill and distributes well.

Freos other midfielders arnt 'covering' for Brodie either, they all have skill sets that compliment each other and have gelled very quickly.

The other thing is, if he didn't work out straight up, he would definitely weaken our VFL side



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[danj]

Yep great idea. Can see JHF, the competitor beast he is, being happy with that. Punish the guy who’s trying…..Sure way to keep him at the club…

Here’s a thought, play those seniors who aren’t pulling their weight in the VFL instead.

im ok with that, put em all in there and play the youngsters in the afl

 

[RoovolverUpstairs]

I'm not buying what you're selling...

The fact he came with pick 19 is a GIFT we didn't take advantage of. Just out and out dumb from the list management team especially when we handed our 2nd to Punt Rd.

His strengths far outweigh his weakness and he would do quite well in our midfield imo.
Jy wouldn't be under such pressure to find the ball, he along with others would be allowed the clearance possession on the outside more often.
Brodie isn't Cunners, but he finds the pill and distributes well.

Freos other midfielders arnt 'covering' for Brodie either, they all have skill sets that compliment each other and have gelled very quickly.

The other thing is, if he didn't work out straight up, he would definitely weaken our VFL side



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Agree that based on his output at freo he would have likely brought every positive to the club that you listed but I guess at the time maybe when we recruited greenwood we probably didn't think we needed another pure inside mid with jy, LDU, jed, thomas, phillips, JHF, powell and then hugh all needing time on ball. Had we recruited him he would have been 9th on the depth chart coming into the club (and that's not including cunners) but unfortunately you can't predict phillips getting glandular, jed having heart complications and greenwood's impact not being as significant as expected.