Autopsy Autopsy vs St Kilda

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Snake_Baker

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Apr 24, 2013
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So was I. We were coming off 3 70pt thrashing in a row. We just could not stop teams scoring. Then all of a sudden it turned. 14pts in a half.

Then we got on a roll.

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It's a long time ago now, but Peter German's influence has still left an impression upon my memories of the game.
 

Marstermind

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So was I. We were coming off 3 70pt thrashing in a row. We just could not stop teams scoring. Then all of a sudden it turned. 14pts in a half.

Then we got on a roll.

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Yeah I was there too. It was so weird.

1991 was a high scoring season and after finishing 1990 well, and making the pre-season Grand Final again, there was plenty of hype around us. But we were terrible in the first month of the year. We beat the Bears in Round 1 (no big deal), and then lost to Essendon, West Coast and Melbourne by 73, 72 and 70. We conceded 71 goals in those three games and then another 19 to half time against the Swans. The Swans win was the first of 6 straight wins, but the lowest score we conceded in that time was 97. Every game was a shoot out. From the Bears game on we played 15 straight games where we conceded at least 14 goals. Across the season we let in 20 goals 7 times, and 100 points 16 times.

As a result, despite winning 12 games our % was only 91, and when we lost, we lost big. Of the 10 losses, 7 were by 50+. Of the wins, only this Sydney game was by 50+. With 3 games to go we were inside the six, in 5th with a game in hand. Then we lost to Fitzroy who'd only won 1 game up to then by conceding 22 goals and losing by a point. We had Geelong and the Crows in Adelaide after that, got hammered and finished 8th.
 

Rooboys Rool

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Jan 25, 2016
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Thanks for the pic. I mentioned this last week... Massive free that was missed and would have sunk us.
Umpire conspiracy theorists take note.
True that it shows there is no conspiracy. But it also shows a high level of incompetence and inconsistency, which is just as bad.
 

ferball

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The following stat is brought to you by Coronavirus Lockdown Cabin Fever Enterprises....

Was interested to see if our second half improvement coincided with any kind of significant change to the Mid centre square set ups. So with a chunk of spare time now suddenly at my disposal, I trawled through the replay to check it out.

Turns out we didn't do much differently in terms of personnel in the second half. Couple of tweaks and "small fixes". TT got a little more time in there, and Hall got used on a couple of occasions (Zurhaar, too), but probably the most interesting and significant observation I made was that Jed hardly attended a centre bounce in the second half. Make of that what you will.

Foxtel inexplicably omitted the first bounce of the game from the replay, but here's the totals (on centre bounces attended) for the remaining 18 centre bounces....

Cunners - 17/18
Jy - 11/18
Higgo - 11/18
Jed - 6/18
TT - 6/18
Hall - 2/18
Zurhaar - 1/18

Other stuff...

- The Dumont & Polec combo started on the Wing(s) on 14/18 occasions. (Ahern - 2/18, Hall - 2/18)
- Goldy won the centre hit-out 10/18 times.
- We won the centre square clearance 10/18 times. (Not necessarily the same times as above. Goldy winning the tap + us winning the clearance happened on only 6 occasions.)
- First half centre square clearances won - 4/9
- Second half centre square clearances won - 6/9


Cheers, all. Stay tuned for more stats as the cabin fever intensifies.
Jeds best value seems to be at clearances around the ground and initiating or being heavily involved in scoring chains. Our pressure round the ground was right off in the first half too.

I think really it was just down to our typical first round blues, and kudos to Scamper for stopping them. Might have been lucky theSaints kicked poorly too but that's cost us games in the past so I'll take that.

When you get real bored do you want to do something similar for the round the ground bounces.
 

Marstermind

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I find it pretty amazing how few times we've overcome a 5 goal half time deficit... Can u work out how many times we've lost after leading by 5 goals at the main break?
It's actually quite rare. This is the 124th VFL/AFL season and it's only happened 95 times that a side has come from 30 or more down at half time to win. Carlton has done it the most (11), the Suns, Giants and University have never done it, Geelong (6), St.Kilda (5) and Melbourne (4) have been in the league longer than us and the Dogs (5) have been in just as long.

As for the times we've lost after leading at half time by 30 or more, it's happened 8 times

40 points. 1999 v Geelong @ MCG. 95 v 55 to 135 v 141
39 points. 2015 v Collingwood @ MCG. 66 v 27 to 95 v 112
38 points. 1941 v Essendon @ Arden St. 67 v 29 to 108 v 145
36 points. 1999 v Sydney @ SCG. 61 v 25 to 70 v 72
35 points. 2001 v Carlton @ MCG. 58 v 23 to 69 v 82
35 points. 2004 v Bulldogs @ Manuka. 91 v 56 to 119 v 120.
35 points. 2013 v Geelong @ Docklands. 75 v 40 to 108 v 112
33 points. 1958 v Richmond @ Arden St. 54 v 21 to 73 v 83
 

Heaps of fun

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It's actually quite rare. This is the 124th VFL/AFL season and it's only happened 95 times that a side has come from 30 or more down at half time to win. Carlton has done it the most (11), the Suns, Giants and University have never done it, Geelong (6), St.Kilda (5) and Melbourne (4) have been in the league longer than us and the Dogs (5) have been in just as long.

As for the times we've lost after leading at half time by 30 or more, it's happened 8 times

40 points. 1999 v Geelong @ MCG. 95 v 55 to 135 v 141
39 points. 2015 v Collingwood @ MCG. 66 v 27 to 95 v 112
38 points. 1941 v Essendon @ Arden St. 67 v 29 to 108 v 145
36 points. 1999 v Sydney @ SCG. 61 v 25 to 70 v 72
35 points. 2001 v Carlton @ MCG. 58 v 23 to 69 v 82
35 points. 2004 v Bulldogs @ Manuka. 91 v 56 to 119 v 120.
35 points. 2013 v Geelong @ Docklands. 75 v 40 to 108 v 112
33 points. 1958 v Richmond @ Arden St. 54 v 21 to 73 v 83
Surprised this game isn't spoken about more on here. Everyone remember's Swanny bodying JMac late in the game but this was up there with the Adelaide 2013 game as a complete a capitulation we've had under Scott.
 

Boomer29er

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It's actually quite rare. This is the 124th VFL/AFL season and it's only happened 95 times that a side has come from 30 or more down at half time to win. Carlton has done it the most (11), the Suns, Giants and University have never done it, Geelong (6), St.Kilda (5) and Melbourne (4) have been in the league longer than us and the Dogs (5) have been in just as long.

As for the times we've lost after leading at half time by 30 or more, it's happened 8 times

40 points. 1999 v Geelong @ MCG. 95 v 55 to 135 v 141
39 points. 2015 v Collingwood @ MCG. 66 v 27 to 95 v 112
38 points. 1941 v Essendon @ Arden St. 67 v 29 to 108 v 145
36 points. 1999 v Sydney @ SCG. 61 v 25 to 70 v 72
35 points. 2001 v Carlton @ MCG. 58 v 23 to 69 v 82
35 points. 2004 v Bulldogs @ Manuka. 91 v 56 to 119 v 120.
35 points. 2013 v Geelong @ Docklands. 75 v 40 to 108 v 112
33 points. 1958 v Richmond @ Arden St. 54 v 21 to 73 v 83
I remember that Collingwood game. I was kicking the seat in front of me during that 3rd quarter. When we hit the front again in the last quarter, it started pissing down rain, and all of sudden we couldn’t hold sitters, yet they could take pack marks. I joked to my mate after the game that Eddie turned the sprinklers on.
 

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koshari

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that more recent collingwood game where they literally kicked 6 unanswered goals in the time it took me to walk from work to the car park!
 

Marstermind

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No, no, no. That loss was completely down to Mrs. H. First game she ever attended. Hat, scarf, she wore the works.

Taken her to 5 games since....all losses.

Surprisingly enough l have never taken her again.
Wasn't this because they left the roof open and it started to rain?
 

Kimbo

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It's actually quite rare. This is the 124th VFL/AFL season and it's only happened 95 times that a side has come from 30 or more down at half time to win. Carlton has done it the most (11), the Suns, Giants and University have never done it, Geelong (6), St.Kilda (5) and Melbourne (4) have been in the league longer than us and the Dogs (5) have been in just as long.

As for the times we've lost after leading at half time by 30 or more, it's happened 8 times

40 points. 1999 v Geelong @ MCG. 95 v 55 to 135 v 141
39 points. 2015 v Collingwood @ MCG. 66 v 27 to 95 v 112
38 points. 1941 v Essendon @ Arden St. 67 v 29 to 108 v 145
36 points. 1999 v Sydney @ SCG. 61 v 25 to 70 v 72
35 points. 2001 v Carlton @ MCG. 58 v 23 to 69 v 82
35 points. 2004 v Bulldogs @ Manuka. 91 v 56 to 119 v 120.
35 points. 2013 v Geelong @ Docklands. 75 v 40 to 108 v 112
33 points. 1958 v Richmond @ Arden St. 54 v 21 to 73 v 83
I assume there were bigger margins within games we've come back from, but historically they didn't track that, unless reported on at the time.

Is there a record for longest running autopsy thread?
 

Caracas

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I remember that Collingwood game. I was kicking the seat in front of me during that 3rd quarter. When we hit the front again in the last quarter, it started pissing down rain, and all of sudden we couldn’t hold sitters, yet they could take pack marks. I joked to my mate after the game that Eddie turned the sprinklers on.
I actually broke a seat at the ‘G in the last quarter of the same game. I was frantically checking to see whether anybody had noticed, in case I got arrested. That game was so frustrating. From memory, we were backing up after a frustrating loss to Freo as well - where we’d gotten run down as well.

Edit: Actually, Freo had flogged us the week before. Interestingly enough, it turned out to be Brad’s most successful year in the end.


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Boomer29er

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I actually broke a seat at the ‘G in the last quarter of the same game. I was frantically checking to see whether anybody had noticed, in case I got arrested. That game was so frustrating. From memory, we were backing up after a frustrating loss to Freo as well - where we’d gotten run down as well.

Edit: Actually, Freo had flogged us the week before. Interestingly enough, it turned out to be Brad’s most successful year in the end.


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I was actually sobbing on the phone to my dad at three quarter time while I was in the tunnel, that’s how sad I was.
 

The Other Dean

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Looking forward to where this game dissection to take us.

Next what was the most successful centre square combo?
Kind of difficult to come up with anything too meaningful given the exceptionally small samples sizes we're working with. Nevertheless...

The combo that was used the most was Cunners-Higgo-Jy, and by a considerable margin. They were also tied for the most successful combo along with Cunners-Jy-TT. However, the latter was a combo that only appeared a couple of times. Given the much larger sample size involved with the former group (Cunners-Higgo-Jy), that was the combo that you could get a much better read on. In terms of percentages, they went at 50%.

Wrt individual players, Hally had the best strike rate (of centre bounce appearances to clearances won). He went two for two, and was involved both times in winning the clearance. But again, it's an incredibly small sample size. Of the players who were present at the centre bounces half a dozen or more times, Jy had the best strike rate with 73%.

If I was trying to draw conclusions based solely on the stats and observations made from this game alone - (which isn't something I would advocate obviously, but will run with it for the purposes of this exercise) - I'd be predominantly favouring a set up that includes Cunners and Jy and a classy outside type (Higgo, Hall, TT). Seems to provide the best dynamic and range of useful attributes (along with a superior success rate). That of course is in no way a knock on Jed or any of the other Midfield prospects, who have valuable assets to bring to the centre bounce table, too. Jed is a great centre square defensive option and a definite plus when Cunners isn't in there.

And LDU and Bonar are in the mix also....Dumont can (and does) start in the square....Zurhaar chimes in with the odd centre square cameo....and it starts to present as a pretty decent mix on the face of it. Selection table shenanigans notwithstanding, there's a number of rotation options and a good balance of skill, pace, application, and grunt. With a slightly different look in the square these days, it's an area of the game that I'd love to see us begin to assert a little more authority.
 

The Other Dean

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Jeds best value seems to be at clearances around the ground and initiating or being heavily involved in scoring chains.
As above, I still think he has plenty to offer at the centre bounces, but I'd tend to agree.

When you get real bored do you want to do something similar for the round the ground bounces.
Sounds like a job that has Stage 3 Lockdown written all over it.
 

tazaa

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It's actually quite rare. This is the 124th VFL/AFL season and it's only happened 95 times that a side has come from 30 or more down at half time to win. Carlton has done it the most (11), the Suns, Giants and University have never done it, Geelong (6), St.Kilda (5) and Melbourne (4) have been in the league longer than us and the Dogs (5) have been in just as long.

As for the times we've lost after leading at half time by 30 or more, it's happened 8 times

40 points. 1999 v Geelong @ MCG. 95 v 55 to 135 v 141
39 points. 2015 v Collingwood @ MCG. 66 v 27 to 95 v 112
38 points. 1941 v Essendon @ Arden St. 67 v 29 to 108 v 145
36 points. 1999 v Sydney @ SCG. 61 v 25 to 70 v 72
35 points. 2001 v Carlton @ MCG. 58 v 23 to 69 v 82
35 points. 2004 v Bulldogs @ Manuka. 91 v 56 to 119 v 120.
35 points. 2013 v Geelong @ Docklands. 75 v 40 to 108 v 112
33 points. 1958 v Richmond @ Arden St. 54 v 21 to 73 v 83
The fact most of us have witnessed 6 of the 8 is not good.

Our late start to the 99 pre season meant Denis had a change in approach to the early rounds. We weren’t fully fit and we attempted to jump teams and we got reigned in both times. Nearly happened a third time against St Kilda up in Sydney. It didn’t, we went on a winning streak and wouldn’t have won the flag in 99 hadn’t we beaten the Saints that night.
 

tazaa

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Surprised this game isn't spoken about more on here. Everyone remember's Swanny bodying JMac late in the game but this was up there with the Adelaide 2013 game as a complete a capitulation we've had under Scott.
I actually broke a seat at the ‘G in the last quarter of the same game. I was frantically checking to see whether anybody had noticed, in case I got arrested. That game was so frustrating. From memory, we were backing up after a frustrating loss to Freo as well - where we’d gotten run down as well.

Edit: Actually, Freo had flogged us the week before. Interestingly enough, it turned out to be Brad’s most successful year in the end.


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Crocker was coaching that day against Collingwood.

We had beaten West Coast the week before in Hobart and Brad was watching from the confines of his couch after back surgery.
Apparently this loss allowed him to see what changes he needed to make to the team yet we still went up the Gold Coast and got belted🤦🏻‍♂️
He introduced Turner and Garner back into the side off the back of that for more forward pressure and we hit September in top form.

Brad was a terrible coach when you look at that 2014-16 team and how it underachieved, I mean the fickle nature and mental ethos of the side was f’ed.
 

fusion

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The fact most of us have witnessed 6 of the 8 is not good.

Our late start to the 99 pre season meant Denis had a change in approach to the early rounds. We weren’t fully fit and we attempted to jump teams and we got reigned in both times. Nearly happened a third time against St Kilda up in Sydney. It didn’t, we went on a winning streak and wouldn’t have won the flag in 99 hadn’t we beaten the Saints that night.
Yes I had a feeling losing was more common than the comeback wins - so many of those in recent history.
 

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