Autopsy Autopsy vs Western Bulldogs - Rd 3, 2021

[ChoppyGun]

Writing off a player due to your perception of height and pace is just lazy analysis.

He isn't and hasn't though.

He is saying he is a battler and not good enough (yet). Which is true, he wouldn't be playing for any other AFL team.

That's all

 

[ChoppyGun]

How’s Lachie Neale go?

Caleb Daniel is 8cm shorter then Mahoney FYI.

You honestly comparing Lachie Neale to Mahony?

Ok then.

 

[The Nostradamus]

the other thing with mahony is he just doesn't have any elite traits which makes his lack of height and pace even worse

 

[archereleven]

its not hard to judge a persons height and pace

Obviously Diesel Williams was piss poor then?

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[Psicosis]

He isn't and hasn't though.

He is saying he is a battler and not good enough (yet). Which is true, he wouldn't be playing for any other AFL team.

That's all

No. He is writing him off due to things he cannot improve (height & speed), and calling him a plodder.

Big difference between saying that, and saying he needs time to develop his craft in the VFL.

 

[Psicosis]

You honestly comparing Lachie Neale to Mahony?

Ok then.

They’re the same height, which is what’s being questioned. Neale is also by no means quick either.

What had Neale done at 19? Not much.

 

[ChoppyGun]

They’re the same height, which is what’s being questioned. Neale is also by no means quick either.

What had Neale done at 19? Not much.

I think you'll find Neale is an outlier on how well he has improved and developed.

It's ridiculous to mention Mahony in the same sentence as Neale.

Again, Mahony might reach Neale height, sounds great for him and us!! But no need to criticise those who think he's nothing like Neale or it is unfair to have concerns on his future.

 

[Psicosis]

I think you'll find Neale is an outlier on how well he has improved and developed.

It's ridiculous to mention Mahony in the same sentence as Neale.

Again, Mahony might reach Neale height, sounds great for him and us!! But no need to criticise those who think he's nothing like Neale or it is unfair to have concerns on his future.

Chop.

TZ is criticising Mahoney due to his lack of height/speed when he’s 178cm. I am pointing out that 2 recent Brownlow medalists in Mitchell (182) and Neale (178) are around that height and are not overly quick. Therefore, calling him a plodder due to those two characteristics, is lazy.

 

[The Nostradamus]

Chop.

TZ is criticising Mahoney due to his lack of height/speed when he’s 178cm. I am pointing out that 2 recent Brownlow medalists in Mitchell (182) and Neale (178) are around that height and are not overly quick. Therefore, calling him a plodder due to those two characteristics, is lazy.

Those 2 players are ball magnets and have always been even in juniors Mahony is and has not
Stop comparing him to them it’s lazy and self fulfilling

 

[Psicosis]

Those 2 players are ball magnets and have always been even in juniors Mahony is and has not
Stop comparing him to them it’s lazy and self fulfilling

“Mahony unfortunately is very plodder like and I don’t think that will change

he’s a very limited player and he’s only 13 games in and can obviously improve but his limitations will stay (lack of height and pace)

its not hard to judge a persons height and pace” - TZ



Lachie Neale disagrees.

 

[Supreme_Chancellor]

North Melbourne's worst losses under Brad Scott (theroar.com.au)

Reckon I sat through the Melbourne losses.....


10. Collingwood 22.15.147 defeated North Melbourne 3.12.30 (MCG)
Early in Brad Scott’s reign at the Kangaroos he struggled immensely against the top clubs of the league. The Roos were routinely walloped by the likes of Geelong, St Kilda and Collingwood, and this performance on a soaked MCG in Round 16 is a game no North fan would want to remember. Funnily enough, it is not the lowest score the Roos have managed under Scott.

9. Adelaide 21.14.140 defeated North Melbourne 9.9.63 (Adelaide Oval)
In a performance very similar to the game against Fremantle last weekend, the Roos went into this Round 1 clash full of optimism, having secured the services of Shaun Higgins and Jarrad Waite during the off-season. While Higgins booted four goals in his first match in the blue and white, Waite was unsighted, as the Crows handed out a devastating 77 point loss.

8. St Kilda 19.21.135 defeated North Melbourne 10.10.70 (Marvel Stadium)
Despite starting the 2011 season with four losses, The Kangaroos remained a finals chance going into this Round 23 clash with the Saints on a Saturday night, albeit depending on other results going their way. Having lost their previous three matches against St Kilda, Brad Scott publicly declared this match as a ‘line in the sand’ moment for the club, challenging his players to stand up to an opposition club that had regularly bullied them in previous outings. A five-goal run in the second quarter saw the Roos lead by 20 points, but they would kick just three more majors for the match as the Saints effortlessly lifted another gear, ending North’s finals hopes.


7. North Melbourne 12.13.85 defeated by Western Bulldogs 13.14.92 (Marvel Stadium)
This one remains fresh in the memory, and quite frankly I still can’t believe we lost this match. Going into this Round 21 contest last year, North sat in tenth position on the ladder, just one win from the top eight. Leading by 28 points at half-time, it seemed nothing could get in the way of the Roos landing their 12th win of the year. A Bulldogs onslaught in the third quarter, when they slotted eight goals to two, was enough to end their season. It displayed Brad Scott’s inability to stop an opposition run-on, with the team almost conceding defeat once the Bulldogs got close enough.


6. West Coast 24.18.162 defeated North Melbourne 9.12.66 (Subiaco Oval)
Geelong, under Chris Scott, have developed a reputation for getting blown out of the water early in finals matches over the last few seasons. But people forget that his twin brother Brad suffered from early onslaughts in September first. Having guided his team to its first finals appearance in five years, the Roos were scheduled to play West Coast in Perth on a Sunday afternoon in 2012. With the temperature hitting 30 degrees, North couldn’t handle the heat, with the Eagles kicking the first nine goals of the game. After a brief fightback in the third term, West Coast slotted nine goals in the last term to run out 96-point winners. Plan B would’ve been handy that day.

5. North Melbourne 19.10.124 defeated by Adelaide 18.17.125 (Marvel Stadium)
What’s one word that could send shivers down the spines of every North Melbourne supporter but doesn’t really mean anything to any other ordinary punter? ‘Petrenko’. Let’s set the scene. With just over nine minutes remaining on the clock in this 2013 encounter, North led by 30 points. No team with a good coach should lose from here, right? Well, you guessed it – North did a ‘North’. The Crows got a sniff of momentum and all of a sudden they were like a steam train, running all over us until Jared Petrenko kicked the matchwinner from a calamitous defensive error from Shaun Atley. If ever a game could force you to cut up your membership, this was it.

4. Port Adelaide 14.11.95 defeated North Melbourne 14.9.93 (Football Park)
While the Petrenko match was bad, I think North supporters forget just how much this one hurt. Facing a Port Adelaide side coming off a six-game losing streak on a Saturday afternoon in 2012, the Roos were again in a comfortable position late in the last quarter, leading by 32 points with ten minutes on the clock. A sudden surge of momentum saw the Power pile on the last nine scoring shots of the game, with Paul Stewart of all players kicking the go-ahead goal with under a minute to go.

3. Hawthorn 27.12.174 defeated North Melbourne 9.5.59 (University of Tasmania Stadium)
A fortnight on from that horror show at Football Park, things got a lot worse for North Melbourne. Despite sitting just a game ahead of the Roos on the ladder at the time, the Hawks, led by superstar Lance Franklin, were just too good. Brad Scott had no answers for the Franklin match-up, with Buddy kicking a career-high 13 goals on a dark day for the Roos. In a positive for North, this game would spark a decent run of form, with the Kangaroos winning ten of the remaining 12 games on their way to a finals appearance.

Brad Scott (Adam Trafford/AFL Media/Getty Images)
2. Collingwood 17.10.112 defeated North Melbourne 14.11.95 (MCG)
The Magpies have been one of Brad Scott’s bogey sides over his time as coach of the Roos, with 27.27 per cent winning record since the start of 2010. This loss in 2015 remains not only his worst against Collingwood but one of the most embarrassing of his tenure. A 39-point lead at half-time on a wet track at the MCG should be enough for any side to coast to victory, but any opposition club knows that a North Melbourne outfit under Brad Scott is incredibly vulnerable if they lose momentum.


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The Magpies kicked nine goals to none in the third term, and despite a brief challenge from the Kangaroos in the last quarter, they ran out winners by 17 points. It is these games and the losses against Port Adelaide and Adelaide in 2012 and 2013 that make most matches in which the Roos find themselves ahead extremely uncomfortable and unnerving for supporters. It is also these kinds of games that bring about the hilarious jokes, such as, ‘Why shouldn’t you trust North Melbourne to walk your dog? Because they can’t hold a lead’.

1. Fremantle 21.15.141 defeated North Melbourne 9.5.59 (Optus Stadium)
After a few days to think about it, I contend that this game is the worst in Brad Scott’s time as coach for a number of reasons. Because of the off-season hype that was generated from our quartet of recruits. Because of the belief that we would improve again after an impressive 2018 season. Because the Dockers had endured a week from hell during which their star recruit was ruled out, weakening an already weak-looking forward line. Because maybe, just maybe, we had learnt how to win a Round 1 game. Instead we looked beaten from the first few minutes.

 

[Gasometer]

 

[ChoppyGun]

That guy does the "News of the Week" food reviews or similar.

Funny as and making good coin

 

[DarwinRoo]

Boomer is 171 cm.

We didn’t recruit Mahony to play in the ruck.

 

[The Nostradamus]

Boomer is 171 cm.

We didn’t recruit Mahony to play in the ruck.

Boomer has elite agility/pace Mahony doesn’t

 

[roos_tt29]

Downsides - got smashed by a very good side. Dropped heads after Larkey's goal was overturned. That's all a good side needs to put the foot on the throat.

Signs:
- Powell: great effort and intent
- Phillips: did some nice things and involved in a few nice passages of play
- Lazarro: kid is not afraid to take the game on. Lovely skills and good pace.
- LDU: did turn the ball over more than usual, but saw some good signs that he's working on his defensive side of the game
- Larkey: good to see him competing again early
- Scott: tried to break the lines early, looked quite good.
- Cunners: so good to have him back

Went to the game and stayed to the end. Was in the pocket of where the chain of play began to Larkey's overturned goal that was the momentum-shifter. All draftees were involved in that play which is super promising.

It's going to be a long rebuild, but we have to stick fat and show support even at the really bad games.

 

[La Flama Blanca]

Boomer has elite agility/pace Mahony doesn’t

I love the present tense here.

 

[DarwinRoo]

Boomer has elite agility/pace Mahony doesn’t

Mahony does have pace.

 

[KiwiRoo]

pretty pointless doing in depth analysis until we get some resemblance of a senior side out there. Been decimated by injury

I just want to see some signs from the young players and the effort being put in

sh&t just snowballs when you have a flag chance side playing an under 23 side who then loses half its bench

ps young guys with 1 or 2 preseasons, combined with a reduced bench, not being able to match the fitness of a top 4 side isn't lack of effort either

 

[7577969923]

Mahony does have pace.

Yep. The Mahony is slow narrative is one of the most overblown myths on this board. He would be quicker than plenty of the best 22 players.

 

[Event Horizon]

So........

I only watched the first half due to an event I needed to attend so I was pretty shocked at the end result after a reasonable 1st half - I didnt see the implosion coming!

Having said that, I didnt know Polec and Jed were now off.

A decimated midfield with fewer rotations to support a totally decimated backline with Tarrant, LMac, Corr, Bonar and Kyron missing from our starting backline.

The remaining 20 out there for the second half against a very good Dogs team were lambs to the slaughter, they never had a chance!!

Thank God we are getting games into Philips, Powell and Charlie who are all showing signs and great to see Cunners back at 18 contested possessions but without some players back we are kidding ourselves!!


Pointless looking at individual performance under these war time circumstances!!!!!
Hold strong boys!

Agree it was a somewhat different smashing to some of those we saw in the past when Scott first started. In those games we were never in it from the first bounce. But against Dogs (and Port) our first quarters have been pretty good. Energy levels started to drop off around the middle of the second quarter and then we completely stopped competing after half time.




On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Jasemon]

North Melbourne's worst losses under Brad Scott (theroar.com.au)

Reckon I sat through the Melbourne losses.....


10. Collingwood 22.15.147 defeated North Melbourne 3.12.30 (MCG)
Early in Brad Scott’s reign at the Kangaroos he struggled immensely against the top clubs of the league. The Roos were routinely walloped by the likes of Geelong, St Kilda and Collingwood, and this performance on a soaked MCG in Round 16 is a game no North fan would want to remember. Funnily enough, it is not the lowest score the Roos have managed under Scott.

9. Adelaide 21.14.140 defeated North Melbourne 9.9.63 (Adelaide Oval)
In a performance very similar to the game against Fremantle last weekend, the Roos went into this Round 1 clash full of optimism, having secured the services of Shaun Higgins and Jarrad Waite during the off-season. While Higgins booted four goals in his first match in the blue and white, Waite was unsighted, as the Crows handed out a devastating 77 point loss.

8. St Kilda 19.21.135 defeated North Melbourne 10.10.70 (Marvel Stadium)
Despite starting the 2011 season with four losses, The Kangaroos remained a finals chance going into this Round 23 clash with the Saints on a Saturday night, albeit depending on other results going their way. Having lost their previous three matches against St Kilda, Brad Scott publicly declared this match as a ‘line in the sand’ moment for the club, challenging his players to stand up to an opposition club that had regularly bullied them in previous outings. A five-goal run in the second quarter saw the Roos lead by 20 points, but they would kick just three more majors for the match as the Saints effortlessly lifted another gear, ending North’s finals hopes.


7. North Melbourne 12.13.85 defeated by Western Bulldogs 13.14.92 (Marvel Stadium)
This one remains fresh in the memory, and quite frankly I still can’t believe we lost this match. Going into this Round 21 contest last year, North sat in tenth position on the ladder, just one win from the top eight. Leading by 28 points at half-time, it seemed nothing could get in the way of the Roos landing their 12th win of the year. A Bulldogs onslaught in the third quarter, when they slotted eight goals to two, was enough to end their season. It displayed Brad Scott’s inability to stop an opposition run-on, with the team almost conceding defeat once the Bulldogs got close enough.


6. West Coast 24.18.162 defeated North Melbourne 9.12.66 (Subiaco Oval)
Geelong, under Chris Scott, have developed a reputation for getting blown out of the water early in finals matches over the last few seasons. But people forget that his twin brother Brad suffered from early onslaughts in September first. Having guided his team to its first finals appearance in five years, the Roos were scheduled to play West Coast in Perth on a Sunday afternoon in 2012. With the temperature hitting 30 degrees, North couldn’t handle the heat, with the Eagles kicking the first nine goals of the game. After a brief fightback in the third term, West Coast slotted nine goals in the last term to run out 96-point winners. Plan B would’ve been handy that day.

5. North Melbourne 19.10.124 defeated by Adelaide 18.17.125 (Marvel Stadium)
What’s one word that could send shivers down the spines of every North Melbourne supporter but doesn’t really mean anything to any other ordinary punter? ‘Petrenko’. Let’s set the scene. With just over nine minutes remaining on the clock in this 2013 encounter, North led by 30 points. No team with a good coach should lose from here, right? Well, you guessed it – North did a ‘North’. The Crows got a sniff of momentum and all of a sudden they were like a steam train, running all over us until Jared Petrenko kicked the matchwinner from a calamitous defensive error from Shaun Atley. If ever a game could force you to cut up your membership, this was it.

4. Port Adelaide 14.11.95 defeated North Melbourne 14.9.93 (Football Park)
While the Petrenko match was bad, I think North supporters forget just how much this one hurt. Facing a Port Adelaide side coming off a six-game losing streak on a Saturday afternoon in 2012, the Roos were again in a comfortable position late in the last quarter, leading by 32 points with ten minutes on the clock. A sudden surge of momentum saw the Power pile on the last nine scoring shots of the game, with Paul Stewart of all players kicking the go-ahead goal with under a minute to go.

3. Hawthorn 27.12.174 defeated North Melbourne 9.5.59 (University of Tasmania Stadium)
A fortnight on from that horror show at Football Park, things got a lot worse for North Melbourne. Despite sitting just a game ahead of the Roos on the ladder at the time, the Hawks, led by superstar Lance Franklin, were just too good. Brad Scott had no answers for the Franklin match-up, with Buddy kicking a career-high 13 goals on a dark day for the Roos. In a positive for North, this game would spark a decent run of form, with the Kangaroos winning ten of the remaining 12 games on their way to a finals appearance.

Brad Scott (Adam Trafford/AFL Media/Getty Images)
2. Collingwood 17.10.112 defeated North Melbourne 14.11.95 (MCG)
The Magpies have been one of Brad Scott’s bogey sides over his time as coach of the Roos, with 27.27 per cent winning record since the start of 2010. This loss in 2015 remains not only his worst against Collingwood but one of the most embarrassing of his tenure. A 39-point lead at half-time on a wet track at the MCG should be enough for any side to coast to victory, but any opposition club knows that a North Melbourne outfit under Brad Scott is incredibly vulnerable if they lose momentum.


Advertisement
The Magpies kicked nine goals to none in the third term, and despite a brief challenge from the Kangaroos in the last quarter, they ran out winners by 17 points. It is these games and the losses against Port Adelaide and Adelaide in 2012 and 2013 that make most matches in which the Roos find themselves ahead extremely uncomfortable and unnerving for supporters. It is also these kinds of games that bring about the hilarious jokes, such as, ‘Why shouldn’t you trust North Melbourne to walk your dog? Because they can’t hold a lead’.

1. Fremantle 21.15.141 defeated North Melbourne 9.5.59 (Optus Stadium)
After a few days to think about it, I contend that this game is the worst in Brad Scott’s time as coach for a number of reasons. Because of the off-season hype that was generated from our quartet of recruits. Because of the belief that we would improve again after an impressive 2018 season. Because the Dockers had endured a week from hell during which their star recruit was ruled out, weakening an already weak-looking forward line. Because maybe, just maybe, we had learnt how to win a Round 1 game. Instead we looked beaten from the first few minutes.

I'm still yet to bring myself to unburden myself here from Friday's loss. Every time I get close to writing my thoughts I just crumple again and literally start trembling again with a mixture of anger and humiliation. And that's after I've managed to calm down and think rationally. After reading this post I'm clearly still not ready to provide my thoughts. In 40 odd years of being a North supporter this would pretty much be the low point.

 

[Intothewind]

There is completion for that title:
1. Mahoney is slow because his body shape looks slow
2. Player X now aged 26 was a high pick in his draft year so we factor that into our assessment of his football ability.
3. Big muscles on young player at pre season means he's going to be a gun.
4. Old player, therefore provides good leadership for the kids.
5. Umpires treat North differently.
6. Media treat North differently.

I roll with at least 3 of 6 on any given day!

Yep. The Mahony is slow narrative is one of the most overblown myths on this board. He would be quicker than plenty of the best 22 players.

On Pixel 4a using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Gasometer]

I'm still yet to bring myself to unburden myself here from Friday's loss. Every time I get close to writing my thoughts I just crumple again and literally start trembling again with a mixture of anger and humiliation. And that's after I've managed to calm down and think rationally. After reading this post I'm clearly still not ready to provide my thoughts. In 40 odd years of being a North supporter this would pretty much be the low point.

I am not too concerned

When you lose a Prelim or Gf that’s bad because you know you are so close and that might have been your one and only shot.

Meanwhile I am with Gordy

 

[R00StaR]

Speed can be many things, over 5, 10, 20, 50 ect. Anyone have numbers how they stack up Vs similar size players in the AFL? Of then theres speed of mind which is much more subjective.
Tbh i havent thought him slow, but he isnt a Boomer, Eddie Betts or Liam Ryan

1

Liam Ryan

Age

27

Ht

181cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.3

3star

K

8.6

3star

HB

2.7

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

4star

G

1.3

5star

D

9.9

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.6

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

11.4

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

1.6

5star

either.