Europe Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread:

Europe - War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/backdrop-to-the-war-in-ukraine.1302028/ If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[IlovethePies]

I mean the head of NATO called Trump daddy mid this year, EU took the tariffs while licking the boot. Europe clearly wants the Americans to stay

It's like 50/60% of standing NATO power is US, command and control is still synced centrally and US based.

NATO is still US controlled and is the jewel in the crown as far as the US empire goes. They won't abandon it easily, they will make them grovel as we've seen.

My points haven't changed tbh. It's the anti Trumpers that have changed to a 'stab in the back' thing.

“It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal.”​

There is definitely conflict in the US oligarchy about which strategy they should go with: continued alliance with NATO, or back stab NATO and redeploy millitarily for the domination of Latin America and the strangulation of China.

Europe is grovelling because it is not prepared yet to take on the US. Hence the drive to rermament across Europe, justified by hysterical claims that Putin plans to invade the entire European continent.

Massive amounts are being redirected to the military in virtually all NATO countries. Germany is preparing the reintroduction of conscription.

Several leading European political figures and the media are calling for Europe to establish its "own strategic autonomy" because the US is no longer a "reliable ally".

 

[wannabejack]

I keep getting caught by the thread going off topic. There are those who are well trained in deflecting and bringing up past issues.

 

[Zidane98]

Amusing to see the critical minerals chestnut again despite it being nonsense.

The absolute facts are Ukraine has critical mineral resources that register barely a blimp on US requirements.

And anything Ukraine has Australia, Canada, China & US itself has many magnitudes more available.

China openly sells critical minerals to the US.

 

[DaTBird187]

I don't care whether Putin has or hasn't, because Putin and Zelensky are on equal footing: they are both political criminals.

 

[Aussie in exile]

I don't care whether Putin has or hasn't, because Putin and Zelensky are on equal footing: they are both political criminals.

Have you forgotten already that russia invaded Ukraine illegally?

I don't care whether Putin has or hasn't, because Putin and Zelensky are on equal footing: they are both political criminals.

I don't think any of Zelensky political enemy's have fallen out of windows have they?

 

[barreness]

Amusing to see the critical minerals chestnut again despite it being nonsense.

The absolute facts are Ukraine has critical mineral resources that register barely a blimp on US requirements.

And anything Ukraine has Australia, Canada, China & US itself has many magnitudes more available.

China openly sells critical minerals to the US.

The US buys a lot of it's uranium from Russia.

Ukraine's mineral reserves are only important for Blackrock and the like post war

 

[Chief]

Russia's invasion of Ukraine was profoundly criminal and reprehensible, but it is not genocidal in nature nor intent.

It lines up with the definition to my mind.

"Intent" being in the statements by Putin et al about the reality of Ukraine as a country, or a nationality. Facts around removal and brainwashing of children and "Russification" of everything the Russian army steal for the Paedo in Chief.

 

[IlovethePies]

It lines up with the definition to my mind.

"Intent" being in the statements by Putin et al about the reality of Ukraine as a country, or a nationality. Facts around removal and brainwashing of children and "Russification" of everything the Russian army steal for the Paedo in Chief.

Yeah,just keep repeating all the unsubstantiated propaganda.

You sound like that moron Zidane, who keeps repeating the Pedo Putin shit.

Im talking about scientific definitions...is this beyond your understanding?

BTW, it is absolutely 100% guaranteed that there are just as many pedophiles in the Ukrainian government as there are in the Russian.

How do I know this?

Just like i have said countless times. Both governments were political monstrosities which emerged from the liquidation of the Soviet Union.

 

[IlovethePies]

I keep getting caught by the thread going off topic. There are those who are well trained in deflecting and bringing up past issues.

Most likely because you keep clicking on the wrong thread.

This thread actually does consider things other than the immediate military situation on the front.

It is the Backdrop thread,so it encompasses not just the immediate situation on the front, but questions such as :what events historically led up to the war, who are the protaganists in the war and what are their geopolitical motivations...etc

If you can't tolerate that, then limit yourself to the War in Ukraine thread.

For guys like you, that is a thread par excellence. Moderators there ban the truth on the grounds that it "might be offensive".

Sounds like your kind of environment.

 

[rank and file]

It lines up with the definition to my mind.

"Intent" being in the statements by Putin et al about the reality of Ukraine as a country, or a nationality. Facts around removal and brainwashing of children and "Russification" of everything the Russian army steal for the Paedo in Chief.

All boils down to Crimea,Russia has been fighting their since 2014 and nobody cared.
Should've declared a no-fly zone over Ukraine years ago.
Different outcome.

 

[rank and file]

The US buys a lot of it's uranium from Russia.

Ukraine's mineral reserves are only important for Blackrock and the like post war

Expect Blackrock will be getting impatient.
They will be pushing a business like/favourable
result.
The War could be over soon.

 

[IlovethePies]

Expect Blackrock will be getting impatient.
They will be pushing a business like/favourable
result.
The War could be over soon.

The conflict between Europe and US is tearing it all apart.

Trump admin barrelling in to impose a ceasefire agreement which will benefit US corporations at the expense of their Eurooean competitors.

However, EU is planning to seize Russian financial assets in Belgium to keep funding the war, and prevent the US from dictating the arrangments going forward.

NATO powers are creating a psuedo legal framework to seize Russian funds deposited in Belgium banks.

This in itself will instigate a crisis,because it will imply that no government can trust that its investments are secure in the imperialist banking system.

 

[Chief]

This in itself will instigate a crisis,because it will imply that no government can trust that its investments are secure in the imperialist banking system.

Asset seizure and forced sales have been happening for a while now.

 

[Zidane98]

The conflict between Europe and US is tearing it all apart.

Trump admin barrelling in to impose a ceasefire agreement which will benefit US corporations at the expense of their Eurooean competitors.

However, EU is planning to seize Russian financial assets in Belgium to keep funding the war, and prevent the US from dictating the arrangments going forward.

NATO powers are creating a psuedo legal framework to seize Russian funds deposited in Belgium banks.

This in itself will instigate a crisis,because it will imply that no government can trust that its investments are secure in the imperialist banking system.

It is secure.

Putin simply has to withdraw completely from Ukraine, pay reparations for its fascist invasion and Russia gets all of its assets back.

It is not a difficult equation.

 

[Aussie in exile]

The conflict between Europe and US is tearing it all apart.

Trump admin barrelling in to impose a ceasefire agreement which will benefit US corporations at the expense of their Eurooean competitors.

However, EU is planning to seize Russian financial assets in Belgium to keep funding the war, and prevent the US from dictating the arrangments going forward.

NATO powers are creating a psuedo legal framework to seize Russian funds deposited in Belgium banks.

This in itself will instigate a crisis,because it will imply that no government can trust that its investments are secure in the imperialist banking system.

A majority of people in the world think that putin has something on donny rump that rump doesn't want to come out in the open, like loans from russian banks etc, do you agree>

 

[Zidane98]

Pedo Putin must really be pissed that he can't get Ukraine to capitulate even though he has his own agent Krasnov running the US on his behalf.

It just further proves that Ukraine and Ukrainians simply want nothing to do with Russia full stop regardless of who is and isn't supporting them.

Ukraine would keep fighting against Russia even if the US joined Russia and declared war on it.

At this point anyone claiming the invasion is about NATO is simply amplifying debunked Putin rhetoric.

 

[barreness]

Asset seizure and forced sales have been happening for a while now.

Private assets are fine, no one cares about those

Central Bank/National assets are a different kettle. You freeze them rather than seize, then use them in negotiations, see Iran

https://united24media.com/latest-ne...ets-says-moscows-defeat-is-a-fairy-tale-13993
“Stealing the frozen assets of another country—its sovereign wealth funds—has never been done before. This is money belonging to the Central Bank of Russia. Even during the Second World War, German funds were not confiscated, only frozen,” he said.

 

[barreness]

Pedo Putin must really be pissed that he can't get Ukraine to capitulate even though he has his own agent Krasnov running the US on his behalf.

It just further proves that Ukraine and Ukrainians simply want nothing to do with Russia full stop regardless of who is and isn't supporting them.

Ukraine would keep fighting against Russia even if the US joined Russia and declared war on it.

At this point anyone claiming the invasion is about NATO is simply amplifying debunked Putin rhetoric.

Pretty sure Russia is fine with the status quo, the war will continue until objectives have been achieved.

The US still provides starlink(crucial to the war effort) and ISR, Biden's weapons transfers that Trump couldn't cancel are still flowing through. American weapons still come in, just paid for by the EU.

US could stop this war if they wanted to pretty quick by halting the above. It obviously still suits the US to keep Russia bleeding for a while longer, Trump also doesn't want 'fall of Saigon/Kabul' optics I reckon

 

[Episode IV]

It lines up with the definition to my mind.

"Intent" being in the statements by Putin et al about the reality of Ukraine as a country, or a nationality. Facts around removal and brainwashing of children and "Russification" of everything the Russian army steal for the Paedo in Chief.

You can make just about anything line up with the definition of genocide, Chief.

That's the point of introducing a new word to replace "war" in the first place.

 

[Chief]

You can make just about anything line up with the definition of genocide, Chief.

That's the point of introducing a new word to replace "war" in the first place.

Wow. I didn't realise! War is always just trying to systematically exterminate a culture and wipe out as many of its citizens as possible!

How silly of me!

 

[Zidane98]

Private assets are fine, no one cares about those

Central Bank/National assets are a different kettle. You freeze them rather than seize, then use them in negotiations, see Iran

https://united24media.com/latest-ne...ets-says-moscows-defeat-is-a-fairy-tale-13993
“Stealing the frozen assets of another country—its sovereign wealth funds—has never been done before. This is money belonging to the Central Bank of Russia. Even during the Second World War, German funds were not confiscated, only frozen,” he said.

Russia gets its 210 billion euros in assets as soon as it withdraws from Ukraine in disgrace and Putin agrees to never act like a modern day Hitler piece of human excrement again.


It really isn't a difficult equation, Russia can have its assets back in 30 days if it really wants them.

 

[Zidane98]

Pretty sure Russia is fine with the status quo,

This is not reality at all.

Russia has agreed Ukraine's borders permanently and inviolably with the UN in the past. This cannot be repealed - you know this.

Russia's unilateral annexation therefore is a guarantee to fail - like every other attempted annexation of previously agreed sovereignty.

You also are fully aware of this.

Russia needs Ukraine to agree its annexation to succeed. This is not happening. Not even Putin getting his agent Krasnov to pressure Ukraine can achieve this and he is the president of the US.

That leaves a hostile occupation remaining that requires 6-700,000 troops just to maintain it without losing ground while having zero hope of achieving an annexation. It comes at the cost of approximately $1 trillion plus conservatively, it ensures Russia remains a pariah state permanently. Not to mention the millions of casualties it would inflict upon Russia, all because a dictator can't accept the fact that Ukranians reject Russian subjugation.

the war will continue until objectives have been achieved.

Pedo Putin has lost the war and has no hope of winning. The objective was destruction of Ukraine the state, the language, the people who disagree with Putin's dream of a new Russian empire.

That is not and simply will never be achieved.

Putin is now just trying to murder / torture / forcibly transfer Ukranian civilians, destroy as much of Ukraine as possible before he calls it a day or a hero of Russia murders the filthy fascist piece of human excrement that Putin is.

The US still provides starlink(crucial to the war effort) and ISR, Biden's weapons transfers that Trump couldn't cancel are still flowing through. American weapons still come in, just paid for by the EU.

The US provides sweet FA to Ukraine. Starlink is not the US government and Russia also uses it. It is also not the only option for internet access either. All of Ukraine's major military successes against Russia involve Ukraine using ingenuity, smarts and home made military products.

Operation spiderweb cost barely $1 millino and inflicted nearly $10 billion in damage on Russia's heavy / nuclear bomber fleet. The best part about it was they were delivered by Russian truck drivers who believed that they were animal tracking drones.

US could stop this war if they wanted to pretty quick by halting the above. It obviously still suits the US to keep Russia bleeding for a while longer, Trump also doesn't want 'fall of Saigon/Kabul' optics I reckon

US already stopped arms deliveries for 12 months during Biden's term when Pedo Krasnov & the republicans were blocking a new military aid package.

Ukraine survived just fine, as it has done without US supplies which Pedo Krasnov seems to arbitrarily withdraw when he feels like it.

You also fail here too. I guess you've been brainwashed in your role at the internet research agency into believing that Ukranians couldn't possibly hold of Russia themselves but that is the reality.

As I said before - Ukranians view Putin in the same way that Jews viewed Hitler.

There is no chance that Ukranians will accept being a Russian puppet state or accept being occupied.

I will say that North Korea, Iran & China could end the war pretty quickly if they wanted to.

Putin cannot produce cruise missiles without Chinese electronics. Putin relies on ammunition & military hardware from North Korea / Iran simply to keep his invasion going.


If all 3 of those actors pulled out any support from Putin Russia would be finished within weeks. Soldiers do not want to fight on behalf of a bloodthirsty fascist who takes the cannon fodder approach in a racist manner to claim small amounts of territory.


And once again on behalf of everyone in this thread - we apologise that you are forced to defend this stuff in this tread. It must really take its toll on you personally defending pretty much the modern day equivalent of Hitler.

 

[wannabejack]

...

Putin cannot produce cruise missiles without Chinese electronics. Putin relies on ammunition & military hardware from North Korea / Iran simply to keep his invasion going.

...

Remember when vatniks were deriding Ukraine for asking for weapons from the US, EU etc.

Volodymyr Zelensky has said Ukraine now makes about 60 per cent of its own weapons.
Ukraine will set up offices for arms exports and joint weapons production in Berlin and Copenhagen

Weapons (and soldiers) from North Korea
Between 75% and 100% of artillery shells used by some Russian military units are made in North Korea, according to Russia’s internal Defense Ministry reports, a Reuters investigation revealed.

 

[Zidane98]

Remember when vatniks were deriding Ukraine for asking for weapons from the US, EU etc.

Volodymyr Zelensky has said Ukraine now makes about 60 per cent of its own weapons.
Ukraine will set up offices for arms exports and joint weapons production in Berlin and Copenhagen

Weapons (and soldiers) from North Korea
Between 75% and 100% of artillery shells used by some Russian military units are made in North Korea, according to Russia’s internal Defense Ministry reports, a Reuters investigation revealed.

Of course a vatnik will never admit that 75% of their artillery coming from NK isn't North Korea using Russia as a proxy because it is highly embarrassing to Pedo Putin and Russia itself.


The optics aren't great either. In the early 2000s Putin was doing deals with the west and neighbors.


Now, Putin is resorting to doing deals with North Korea, random 3rd world dictators in Africa and the likes of Khameni / Lukashenko.

No matter what way you play it that's a huge embarrassment for Russia.

 

[Zidane98]

Ukraine's drones are the weapons that have by far and away been the most successful for them in the war.


And they were not even around pre invasion. They've been developed in house and are totally the result of Putin's delusional attempt at recreating a new Russian empire.


And that fact drives vatniks mad as they cannot attribute that success to the US.