Remove this Banner Ad

Backline designated kicker

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

MrNatural

Club Legend
Oct 9, 2007
1,347
484
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Indiana Pacers
Our main issue so far this year has been our ability to break through the zone in the backline.
Opposition teams seem to be having little problems with breaking through our defensive press, yet we are slow and sloppy coming out of the backline.
My question is, who is our go to man for designated kicker in 2012?
Last year it was clearly Leon, and he was fantastic with his delivery by foot from the backline.
Heath Shaw should be the man for the job, but in my opiniong, it doesnt seem to be taking it on.
You look at a team like Hawthorn, who have a plethora and players who can deliver the ball by foot with precision and distance eg: Suckline, Guerra, Birchall etc.
Yet, who have we got who you can rely on to hit a target 9/10 from the backline?
Who do we have that can roost a goal from outside 50? Harry O circa 2009-10 had the ability to roost from outside 50, yet i cant recall the last time he slotted one.
We need creativity down back.
Who is the best option for this role? Id say the choices are as follows.
- Heath Shaw: Needs to embrace this role, however he can suspect by foot at times.
- Benny J: much maligned by foot, but can do the job, is he creative enough?
- Goldsack: loving the way hes playing at the moment, can roost the big kicks, but dont know if he has the creativity to go with it
- Marty Clarke: dont think we can rely on someone whose only just returned to the game. Also, too risky by foot with his helicopters.
- Yagmoor: seem to show the skill in the NAB cup, struggled in his first game, maybe needs more of a chance to show what hes got. But is he boot penetrating enough?
- S.Buckley: About the only thing hes any good at is he penetration by foot, however id cringe everytime hes left one on one in the backline.

Or do we go with someone from left field. Id suggest the possibility of using the likes of Thomas, who would provide the creativity and speed to break the lines from the back half. Only problem with that is we'd lose him from our midfield rotation, which is now stretched with Ball out.

Maybe me go with Alan Didak. Yes of course only when hes fit, but i think he could provide the creativity and penetrating kick that we desperately need. But, he may be a liability defending an opponent.

What does everyone think?
 
I dont think this is the main issue at all, I would put ahead of it Goal kicking, tackling pressure, centre clearances, decision making on when to come through the corridor and when not to....

however I do like the idea of Thomas for kick in's never occured to me to use him :)
 
2 things:

1) We won the Grand Final in 2010 and Leon didn't play a single minute in the backline all year. This 'losing Leon hurts us' thing is actually a bit of a myth. Who was taking kick outs in 2010? I know Goldy was one of them.

2) Why can't Reid do it? No one throws his name up during these discussions for some reason.
 
2 things:

1) We won the Grand Final in 2010 and Leon didn't play a single minute in the backline all year. This 'losing Leon hurts us' thing is actually a bit of a myth. Who was taking kick outs in 2010? I know Goldy was one of them.

2) Why can't Reid do it? No one throws his name up during these discussions for some reason.

2010 is ancient history in footy terms, too much has changed since then.
But last year, we had the confidence to bring the ball out of the backline, but now, its tiresome and lacks creativity.
Reid, hes a possibility, but i feel he has enough on his plate watching the key forwards to worry about attack.
We need someone who will take the opposition least dangerous forward, if there such a person, that can be released when were in possession
 

Log in to remove this Banner Ad

2 things:

1) We won the Grand Final in 2010 and Leon didn't play a single minute in the backline all year. This 'losing Leon hurts us' thing is actually a bit of a myth. Who was taking kick outs in 2010? I know Goldy was one of them.

2) Why can't Reid do it? No one throws his name up during these discussions for some reason.

In 2011, we won 22 out of 25 games with Leon playing almost every minute in the backline (the best win total the club has ever had).

Your claim around the GF result is not really the relevant point. If not for a bad bounce, we would have lost the 2010 GF. Would your view of Leon's importance change then?

Leon was an AA small defender, with terrific run and a terrific kick. He is extremely sorely missed from this team (I would have thought we would have been able to contain Carlton's small forwards better with Leon in the side).

Reid could do some of it, but he doesn't really get the ball on the run, and that is what role requires.
 
If you watch the best kick in sides now, the player kicking in isn't the most important player, it's the player he kicks to that is.

No matter how good of a kick the player kicking in is, he is only going to get the ball 70 metres out from goal at best, but, if like Hawthorn you can find a Young, Birchall or Guerra type 40-50m out on their own, all of a sudden the ball is on the wing with the next kick.

That is where Leon (and Ben Johnson before he him, 2010) was good, they would pin point a player like Reid, Shaw, Goldy etc who would then get the ball to the wing, which meant we rarely had to switch the ball backwards and sideways over the past few years.

But without Leon and BJ at the start of this year, we are struggling to find that target 40-50 metres out from the kick in, and a lot of the time we have had to bomb it to a contest, or kick it 15 metres, which gets you no where.

Ben Johnson or Heath Shaw are the answer IMO, Goldsack might not even be in the team long term if his current form continues, while BJ and Heater both have accuracy and length on their kicking.

Long term, Yagmoor will be "the man", but we need to give the ball to Heath and BJ this season.
 
Didak.

Too slow to play forward now anyhow.
It would mean that Maxwell would have to find an opponent though.
If the opposition want to man up on Dids, then this would help clog up their forward line and open up ours.
 

After goldsack's game last week he would be lucky to hold his spot if we did not have so many injuries. I would really like to be able to rate the guy, but I thought he was poor last week. He does not have the elite foot skills to be a designated kicker.
 
i'm not sold on whether this is the underlying issue to our problems yet.

However i would love to see didak being played behind the ball, not sure how he would go when it comes to actual defending, but he is the best kick in our side, and last season he barely got near it, and when he did he wasn't in damaging positions.

I highly doubt Buckley will play him down back though. Last week i wouldn't have been against sidebottom going to half back every now and then, but with Ball out now, his midfield mins will be increased so that is a clear no.

I think Ben Johnson is huge to our side, and we need to bring him back ASAP, form hasn't been spectacular in the VFL but he is an outside players, and hes one of those players that always play better in higher standards, with more free time and space to use that left foot.

Clarke/Goldsack should be used for kickouts for mine, Goldsack for the long bomb to the wing, or clarke for the 30-40 m spot up. Heath Shaw needs to be getting the ball on the wing, not in the back pocket.
 
2 things:

1) We won the Grand Final in 2010 and Leon didn't play a single minute in the backline all year. This 'losing Leon hurts us' thing is actually a bit of a myth. Who was taking kick outs in 2010? I know Goldy was one of them.

2) Why can't Reid do it? No one throws his name up during these discussions for some reason.

this comment is perfect
 
Didak.

Too slow to play forward now anyhow.
It would mean that Maxwell would have to find an opponent though.
If the opposition want to man up on Dids, then this would help clog up their forward line and open up ours.

Huh? Too slow for the forward line, so you want to move him to the backline? The place where you need speed? I don't think so.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

If you watch the best kick in sides now, the player kicking in isn't the most important player, it's the player he kicks to that is.

No matter how good of a kick the player kicking in is, he is only going to get the ball 70 metres out from goal at best, but, if like Hawthorn you can find a Young, Birchall or Guerra type 40-50m out on their own, all of a sudden the ball is on the wing with the next kick.

That is where Leon (and Ben Johnson before he him, 2010) was good, they would pin point a player like Reid, Shaw, Goldy etc who would then get the ball to the wing, which meant we rarely had to switch the ball backwards and sideways over the past few years.

But without Leon and BJ at the start of this year, we are struggling to find that target 40-50 metres out from the kick in, and a lot of the time we have had to bomb it to a contest, or kick it 15 metres, which gets you no where.

Ben Johnson or Heath Shaw are the answer IMO, Goldsack might not even be in the team long term if his current form continues, while BJ and Heater both have accuracy and length on their kicking.

Long term, Yagmoor will be "the man", but we need to give the ball to Heath and BJ this season.

I didn't see the OP limited to just the kick-ins - I thought it was more broad than that (i.e. the guy we try to give the ball to in the backline)
 
this comment is perfect

No, it isn't.

We also won the 2010 with Leon playing at all - does that mean we should not have picked him for any of 2011? Obviously not. Freezing on the 2010 season is a wasted exercise.

We won in 2010 without Chris Tarrant - does than mean we shouldn't have got him?

Leon's run and delivery from the backline is being sorely missed this year, regardless of what happened in 2010, 2009, 1990, the 1920s...
 
I've been thinking the same about Didak. I mean, look at Leon. Many thought he was finished by 2010 and the next year he is put down back and is an All Australian. Perhaps Didak could do a similar type of role? Might rejuvenate his career after his dreadful season last year. He certainly has the kick, creativity and accuracy to do it. If Leon could then I'm sure that Didak could.
 
I've been thinking the same about Didak. I mean, look at Leon. Many thought he was finished by 2010 and the next year he is put down back and is an All Australian. Perhaps Didak could do a similar type of role? Might rejuvenate his career after his dreadful season last year. He certainly has the kick, creativity and accuracy to do it. If Leon could then I'm sure that Didak could.

You need speed to play in the backline (esp as a small defender). Didak doesn't have that.

You need to strong at the contest and be a good tackler to play in the backline. Didak doesn't do this.

To be honest, Leon is a better and more precise field kick than Didak (possibly better kick for goals as well, but I am not really arguing for this point).

I don't think Didak would be able to make the transition. As I have said before, I think Thomas could do it, but not Didak.
 
Yeah, maybe you're right. Thomas would most likely be able to do it. He's probably one of our fastest players and one of the better kicks.

And one of our better tacklers / contested players, and one of our most courageous in the air, and one of our most creative runners...

He ticks all of the boxes, but is just too valuable in the midfield right now. It would be great if a Beam / Wellingham / Sidebottom / Didak, etc could step into the midfield with more success, allowing us the luxury of playing Thomas as the attacking half back.
 

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

I don't think our kick-ins are as big a problem as our zone defence. Or our clearance work. The press is done. I think we need to go man on man at the kick-ins and force to kick to a contest. Or at least change it up every now and then. It has been too easy for too many teams now to just carve right through it and our pressure is no where near where it should be. Force a contest, back the team in 1 on 1.

Too many mids are offensive - too often running forward of the contest at stoppages expecting the ball to come out their way. When it doesn't, 3 opposition midfielders have too much time and space, when it does, we fumble the football like 5 year olds at auskick. Its not just Swan, though he is main culprit. It seems to be contagious...

As for kick-ins, it all comes with confidence. I don't think Johnson is the best as he is too predictable to go onto his left foot. Goldsack and Shaw ideally for the kick ins. Clarke is a good option also.. There are generally 3 options when kicking in.. In order of preference:

1. Ben Reid should be the ideal target 40-50m out. Our best contested mark in the defensive 50 and the most penetrating kick. Ideally, he marks uncontested, wheels around and hits a running half-back or mid, centre wing.

2. Short kick in, 20 - 30m to a player like O'brien, run and recieve and using creativity work the ball forward (which is difficult and has a high risk factor but should be do-able with our experienced backline and mids)

3. The bail out kick.. Which is exactly what coaches executing a zone want us to do. With a 50m kick, if it doesn't clear the zone, by the time the ball arrives at the contest, 3-4 opposition players are close enough to crumb, tackle, receive a handball. Worse than that is that there are now unmarked players in the centre of the ground, or forward line.

I feel we are using the bail out kick far too often.
 
Its not the kick ins that are our worries.
Its our lack of options to kick to that is the problem.
We need top get the Backs and Mids to start presenting so we have someone to kick the ball to.
You can have the best kick in the game taking the kick outs,but that means nothing if there is no movement up the ground.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Backline designated kicker

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

Back
Top