Backline Reality

[pistol17]

For a while now most fremantle supporters would be of the opinion that we have a pretty strong defense. I think the past 2 seasons have shown our weakness down back. We have McPharlin and Hayden who are very good backmen but we also have a few guys who I dont think are anywhere near them.

In particular dodd, grover and michael johnson. All 3 have shown they are not consistent enough and nowhere near accountable enough. They are also too ill disciplined. Add in Scott Thornton as well and the whole back 6 becomes very shaky.

An average of 104 points per game is kicked against freo. IMO that is just not good enough. Not only to we need another 1 or 2 midfielders for 2009 but we also need to re-structure the defense. It hasnt been good enough for a long time.

 

[Chops_a_must]

Would have been great if Cuddles had have developed Polly as a dead set centre half back. Players with that size, strength and aerial ability don't grow on trees.

Instead we have been forced to use players in roles they just can't win at.

Mac is the perfect half backman, but always has to be sacrificed to play on the best or 2nd best forward. Grover has the perfect fighting capabilities to take on a 2nd or 3rd string forward and pants them.

All this means is that the players down the list have to play on players they can't beat, and in roles they aren't suited to.

I can see Drum being groomed as our CHB, but from what I've seen, he doesn't have the size or contested mark ability (or injury free run) to be able to hold it down.

 

[MadMac]

Well, you said it yourself, some players are inconsistent. The quality is there IMO, consistency is something they need to work on. Grover punches above his weight more often than not, so maybe match-ups are something that need to be looked at.
I don't know what's wrong with Michael J. Maybe he has some personal issues, maybe it's the growing expectation that comes every year, I don't know. He's got ample talent, no doubt but needs to take that next step to become key player.

 

[dominguez]

The main issue is that only Dodd, Grover and McPharlin see stopping an opponent as their first priority. Hayden, Johnson, Mundy and Black all play too loose. All seven are quality players but the mix is wrong.

 

[Clay Davis]

I think the coaches tried to craft the backline into a running back six, kinda like how Adelaide works. The problem was that our players as a group don't have the class of McLeod, Johncock, etc in the way the work together. Also, Adelaide's backline gets a lot of help from their midfield.

The strategy worked in 2006 when our backline was mostly unknowns like Mundy, Johnson, and Dodd. They had more opportunity to run and create, something that teams since figured out and is now denied to the team.

 

[bigkev bleeds purple]

One of the things that concerns me is that in recent years we have retired, delisted or traded Shane Parker, Robert Haddrill, Michael Warren, Graham Polak and Darren Rumble. All key defenders. In the same period we have only brought in Marcus Drum who can play key defence.

 

[Sman-21]

Also with the backmen an pretty much our whole team.

Does freo not do any weights training?
Michael johnson,Mundy etcs till havent got much muscle despite being around for a while.

Lance franklin was pretty much the same size an shape as Michael Johnson now look at him hes built up his upperbody strength an manged to maintain his speed an agility.

Our players have barely changed in years

 

[Chops_a_must]

Also with the backmen an pretty much our whole team.

Does freo not do any weights training?
Michael johnson,Mundy etcs till havent got much muscle despite being around for a while.

Lance franklin was pretty much the same size an shape as Michael Johnson now look at him hes built up his upperbody strength an manged to maintain his speed an agility.

Our players have barely changed in years

It seems to be the philosophy of the strength coach there at the moment, which is utter crap.

Strength and size does not equal slower, if you are not thick, and know what to do.

 

[dockers_bengals]

The main issue is that only Dodd, Grover and McPharlin see stopping an opponent as their first priority. Hayden, Johnson, Mundy and Black all play too loose. All seven are quality players but the mix is wrong.

I agree,but I would say they get caught on the rebound a lot of times when there is a unexpected turnover.

 

[Jetau]

Yep. We only have two A grade defenders in Hayden and McPharlin. That's the reality.

Dodd and Grover are workhorses, and I rather think Grover is the better of the two. At times, Dodd gets beaten one-on-one consistently. That never happens to Grover except for when Gehrig kicked nine goals on him last year.

And the rest aren't 'defensive' defenders. You can have all the run off half back you like, but if the ball is going over your head through the goals, then it's worth nothing. Hayden is clearly the architect down there. His injury is a massive blow.

Players like Michael Johnson, Black, Thornton and Mundy simply don't play accountable footy. That's why I'm glad that Mundy is generally playing further up the field. Johnson is the one that disappoints me the most, because two years ago we all thought he would be a gun player. What the hell happened to him?

 

[the doc]

Our backline was our strength in 06. They now seem incapable of marking up. Thorton is the worst. In the Bullies game he would have struggled to be within 30m of his man at times

 

[Chops_a_must]

Players like Michael Johnson, Black, Thornton and Mundy simply don't play accountable footy. That's why I'm glad that Mundy is generally playing further up the field. Johnson is the one that disappoints me the most, because two years ago we all thought he would be a gun player. What the hell happened to him?

Fatherhood.

 

[Clay Davis]

Definitely agree about weights. We can't have that many players who can't build muscle.

Maybe the reason we have so many players that shirk contests is because they're all bony armed girly men, not because of their commitment.

 

[Chops_a_must]

Definitely agree about weights. We can't have that many players who can't build muscle.

Maybe the reason we have so many players that shirk contests is because they're all bony armed girly men, not because of their commitment.

You'd have to assume it makes a big psychological difference when going into a contest, having the belief that the other person is going to come off second best.

And it certainly could be one of many reasons why a lot of our players seem so poor one on one. They're just not strong enough to plant feet, push off etc. etc.

 

[theGav56]

Would have been great if Cuddles had have developed Polly as a dead set centre half back. Players with that size, strength and aerial ability don't grow on trees.

Are you serious? Polak was given every opportunity at both ends of the ground. In defence he was only ever useful as third man up, and at Richmond that is the only real way he has had succes in the backline. Imagine him lining up on either Pavlich or Tarrant; we would be very happy. A very good move by Wallet putting him up forward in the coaching lesson he gave Harvey this year. Quite simply Polak does not have the pace for a key defensive post, and certainly not CHB.

 

[Chops_a_must]

Are you serious? Polak was given every opportunity at both ends of the ground. In defence he was only ever useful as third man up, and at Richmond that is the only real way he has had succes in the backline. Imagine him lining up on either Pavlich or Tarrant; we would be very happy. A very good move by Wallet putting him up forward in the coaching lesson he gave Harvey this year. Quite simply Polak does not have the pace for a key defensive post, and certainly not CHB.

He is actually deceptively quick. His first 5 metres is what lets him down. Flying speed was very good, better than mine. Wasn't that far behind me when I was at my fastest.

I would back Polak in in a stationary contest against Pav anyday. Pav gives you a chance, from first hand experience, Polak certainly doesn't. And not many backman can keep up with Tarrant I don't think anyway.

From my perspective, he played very well across half back. But for whatever reason, Connolly played him as a ruckman and he got judged as such.

And yes, he killed us this year. He would still be very handy for us I'd say, given his size in the backline. But what's done is done.

 

[newlander77]

Nathan Carol is likely to be on the market come seasons end. He's a WA boy that would come cheap. It's unlikely he'll get another game at the Demons this year.

 

[Lach72]

Nathan Carol is likely to be on the market come seasons end. He's a WA boy that would come cheap. It's unlikely he'll get another game at the Demons this year.

There's a reason for that...

 

[Alfonz]

As for this Polak talk, pfft ... the real problem if we want to go back to CC was how he handled Croad. Maybe he would have gone back to Hawthorn anyway, but myself and plenty of others used to wonder why he wasn't played permanently at CHB. Or at least like McPharlin where you could send him forward for a cameo role every now and then.

CC had this fascination with trying to make him a key forward when it was clear as anything that he would be better suited to a key position in defence, where he is now one of the premier performers in the competition (as shown by his AA selection and Big V guernsey).

Playing him forward only shattered his confidence as the focus was on him (ala Tarrant) to kick big bags, something which he wasn't quite cut out for. If he had been positioned correctly at CHB, in a position where he was more suited, could perform better and escape the public scrutiny of an underperforming boom recruit "forward" ... I wonder if he would have been happier and not gone back? Maybe, but it was still an example of how CC stuffed players up by not playing them in the right position. The #1/Hodge debacle would be a bit easier to handle as well if we had another gun key back to go with McPharlin. Releasing McPharlin for a burst in the forward line would also be a more viable option.

 

[newlander77]

There's a reason for that...

Surely you don't think they are tanking?

 

[Ripper]

As for this Polak talk, pfft ... the real problem if we want to go back to CC was how he handled Croad. Maybe he would have gone back to Hawthorn anyway, but myself and plenty of others used to wonder why he wasn't played permanently at CHB. Or at least like McPharlin where you could send him forward for a cameo role every now and then.

CC had this fascination with trying to make him a key forward when it was clear as anything that he would be better suited to a key position in defence, where he is now one of the premier performers in the competition (as shown by his AA selection and Big V guernsey).

Playing him forward only shattered his confidence as the focus was on him (ala Tarrant) to kick big bags, something which he wasn't quite cut out for. If he had been positioned correctly at CHB, in a position where he was more suited, could perform better and escape the public scrutiny of an underperforming boom recruit "forward" ... I wonder if he would have been happier and not gone back? Maybe, but it was still an example of how CC stuffed players up by not playing them in the right position. The #1/Hodge debacle would be a bit easier to handle as well if we had another gun key back to go with McPharlin. Releasing McPharlin for a burst in the forward line would also be a more viable option.

Probably because He was the one best suited to play CHF in 2002-3.

Who would you have played there?

 

[Lach72]

Surely you don't think they are tanking?

No...he's shit

 

[Clay Davis]

Yeah, Lach is right.

 

[theGav56]

He is actually deceptively quick. His first 5 metres is what lets him down. Flying speed was very good, better than mine. Wasn't that far behind me when I was at my fastest.

I would back Polak in in a stationary contest against Pav anyday. Pav gives you a chance, from first hand experience, Polak certainly doesn't.

He may have deceived you about how quick he is, but he has not deceived any key forwards in his entire carreer. He has spent almost his entire time in the backline NEVER being asked to play on either the number 1 or 2 key forward, and you want him at CHB??? And why would he be in a stationary contest with Pavlich, who is rarely ever ina stationary contest. Pavlich runs, as do most CHF's, and Polak would be way behind. If you want your CHB giving away a 5 metre start then you are in for an absoloute massacre.

And not many backman can keep up with Tarrant I don't think anyway.

So his only option for a match-up in our forward line is Pavlich? No wonder he was not played back by Richmond. Richmond also find it impossible to find a match-up in the backline for him against almost every team, and play him pre-dominantly as third man up, because he can mark. Good that he has one skill.

He would still be very handy for us I'd say, given his size in the backline. But what's done is done.

I would prefer MacPharlin and Grover as our two key defenders because they have the pace to match key forwards. He could be in a raffle for third tall along with Mundy, Johnson, and Dodd, but they all bring things to the table that Polak doesn't. Polak brought 2nd string ruckman, after failing as a forward. He would be depth behind our current tall backs.

The failure of Polak is one of the biggest things that hurt the club and its structure, along with the failure of most of our other high draft picks (Dunn, Murphy, L Brown), and the Croad debacle. Insert them into the current team into the positions they should be/were expected to fill and playing to the potential we expect of future high draft picks and we would be laughing;

FF; Murphy #12 draft pick
CHF; Polak #4 draft pick
Centre; Dunn #5 draft pick
CHB; Croad trade for #1 draft pick + some
FB; L Brown #4 draft pick. More recently Drum (#10).

Those failures are the huge cannon-ball holes in the side of the fleet, and Polak is the biggest of them, followed by Dunn. In fact turn those two around and things would be significantly different.

 

[newlander77]

Sorry but you think the defensive pressure Thorton, Mundy or Johnson is better than his? You have got to be kidding me mate! You'd rather a team of players running around wearing tiaras? Panzy!