Review Bad, Ugly, and Horrendous vs Hawks

[SugarShane]

Apologies if this has been brought up, avoided the forums for most of the week; but heard Campo saying we don't need to change much because we won alot of ball and contested possessions.

https://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2014/17/adel-v-haw
https://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2015/12/adel-v-haw
https://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2017/14/adel-v-haw
https://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2019/1/adel-v-haw

All 4* games, we won contested ball, all 4* games we lost in a similar manner. He seems a bit clueless.

*edited to include 2015 Adelaide Oval loss

Could you edit to delete 2014 and 2015 since Pykey wasn't there for those?

 

[CrowBloke]

The commentators did point out at one stage that we were going man-on-man in our forward line. This would mean that they didn't have any players free, to receive the uncontested mark, something which is much more easily achieved against a zone defence.

Yes, in the last quarter I believe, which was Pyke being reactive, but too late.

 

[feenix67]

To me when you see a player as damaging and confident as Brodie Smith, turn around rather then taking the player on, or handpass over his shoulder to a 1 on 1, or choose to handpass to a manned up player on the boundary from a kick in, its a very very bad sign!

I saw all these things on multiple occasions on Saturday.

Its only week 1, but in a game where Sauce was being predictably ineffective, the mids seems to only want to bomb it to 3 on 1's, and the most damaging contested marking target in the forward line was Eddie Betts, this was by far the most disturbing part of that loss!

Not being a dick, but I ran some footage during our CrowCast wrap show, go have a look from about the 28 minute point and you'll see a bunch of forward 50 entries, showing how the Hawks squeeze the ground and drop off their man to intercept. We simply didn't spread their defence, and you're right that comes down to a lack of run and spread during transition. The Hawks dictated how we moved the ball.

 

[CrowBloke]

every player that receives the ball is under pressure and puts the next player under more pressure until a rushed kick comes straight to the opposition nest of players.

This!

 

[CrowBloke]

Hawthorn very good at pushing us wide, meaning they only had a third of the forward 50 to defend.

Really good observation.
I didn't see that until you mentioned it.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

It was purely in the head.

Weren't switched on enough. Reserves in same headspace.

 

[King Elvis]

Apologies if this has been brought up, avoided the forums for most of the week; but heard Campo saying we don't need to change much because we won alot of ball and contested possessions.

https://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2014/17/adel-v-haw
https://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2015/12/adel-v-haw
https://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2017/14/adel-v-haw
https://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2019/1/adel-v-haw

All 4* games, we won contested ball, all 4* games we lost in a similar manner. He seems a bit clueless.

*edited to include 2015 Adelaide Oval loss

It is an indictment on Camporeale that Big Footy posters have more of a clue than him.

 

[King Elvis]

Our trading can't be said to have improved vastly. It has improved to somewhere around average.

To be better than that we need to be trading ready made players for ready made players.

Not draft credits.

You want my milkshake? Give me your milkshake. Don't give me money to go out and buy the ingredients to make another milkshake.

Great post mate; love that last sentence.

 

[GreyCrow]

A little from column A, a little from column B. While our delivery was terrible, it wasn't something we were able to fix and the forward line continued to operate on the assumption of good delivery. When you can't fix the delivery, you need to try to fix the "reception" - like roving to a losing ruck. We (coaches / players) did not seem to make that adjustment.

Players didnt even want to run 5-10m to get the shanked ball at times. It was like it was the other persons fault.

 

[Red mist]

Mentally weak football club. I just don’t know why I support this club.

Because you don’t barrack for Port.
And we are still better.

 

[crowcaine]

It is an indictment on Camporeale that Big Footy posters have more of a clue than him.

To be fair on Campo, I try to actually watch the game and analyse it, instead of just referring to the stats sheet post game

 

[relapse]

For all of those who keep saying "it's only Round 1".

Here was an interesting stat shown last night



If we lose on Friday night then history says that we are more than likely going to miss the 8.

 

[hey shorty]

For all of those who keep saying "it's only Round 1".

Here was an interesting stat shown last night

View attachment 643258

If we lose on Friday night then history says that we are more than likely going to miss the 8.

Totally agree, however I think it's more likely to happen given the even nature of the middle of the pack.

Doesn't necessarily ring true for us though.

 

[hey shorty]

For all of those who keep saying "it's only Round 1".

Here was an interesting stat shown last night

View attachment 643258

If we lose on Friday night then history says that we are more than likely going to miss the 8.

Totally agree, however I think it's more likely to happen given the even nature of the middle of the pack.

Doesn't necessarily ring true for us though.

 

[Betts are off]

For all of those who keep saying "it's only Round 1".

Here was an interesting stat shown last night

View attachment 643258

If we lose on Friday night then history says that we are more than likely going to miss the 8.

That stats credibility is hurt when you consider there are 2 grand finalists and 1 SF team in the last 5 years that started 0-2

 

[Grooster24]

Hawthorn very good at pushing us wide, meaning they only had a third of the forward 50 to defend. They always have a guy able to anticipate and drop off his man to go third up or intercept. We rarely went through the corridor. We needed to be more patient and spread their defence but, as usual, we lacked composure under pressure.

Yep agree.

I haven't read any other comments since the carnage...self imposed media blackout by me.

Hawks owned the corridor plus defended for our defensive switch. This pushed us wide and into congestion. We had no open space to run open. The fact that our disposal skills were down didn't help. We tried to push through the corridor several times but either poor disposal, poor decision making or good defending by Hawks stopped this. It led to turnovers and Hawks running free. After that our confidence appeared shot and we were indecisive, not picking out open men when it was there.
Very poor inside 50 and lack of leading or taking marks. But this could be in part to the midfield being under pressure. But I put this to blame of both midfield and forwards.
Where was our inside 50 pressure by our forwards? We had good smalls there of Eddie, Murphy and Jones...
Our defence looked out of confidence and out of their depth. Why can't we manage an effective kick in..?!?! Seems to be years and years we've been like this. Why?

 

[the universal]

For all of those who keep saying "it's only Round 1".

Here was an interesting stat shown last night

View attachment 643258

If we lose on Friday night then history says that we are more than likely going to miss the 8.

We already know we typically (bar a couple of exceptions ie. 2016) miss the finals when we lose in Round 1. Hence the lack of faith.

 

[Rotayjay]

We've often never had the balls to make the hard calls on players, the other issue is that our supporters are full of loyalists that never want to let go.

Going back to 2005, I can still remember when Hudson (got injured?) and we brought back a cooked Matthew Clarke late in 2005.

"Welcome back Clarkey"
"Should never have been dropped"
"We've missed you"

There's too many of our supporters that judge players solely on their reputation rather than their actual output. Even though Sauce has been cooked for 18 months there will be massive melts if we were ever to drop him, "why have they dropped Sauce, he's played his guts out for years and deserves his spot in the side" etc

Unfortunately those of us who want change and can see the writing on the wall are only a fringe group, the majority of our supporters would prefer for Sauce to just keep grinding out mediocre games until he doesn't want to play anymore.

There are a lot of naive people who support the Crows who think it's 1998 and we can just scrape into the eight and then Blighty will pull some rabbit out of the hat.

 

[Rotayjay]

See this is an important point. A super important one in fact:

The supporters of this football club massively overrate the talent within its four walls.

I’ve been guilty of it too but I’ve become much more aware of it in recent times.

Ask any run of the mill crows fan who our elite talent is and you get this response:

-Sloane
-Walker
-Crouch
-Crouch
-Smith
-Betts
-Laird
-Jacobs
-Gibbs
-Talia

With elite young talent in:

-Milera
-Doedee
-Greenwood

How about we analyse this is more detail?

Sloane: Heart and soul of this club. Elite workrate and toughness. Best player at this club by a mile. Not a flashy game breaker but absolutely an elite AFL footballer.

Walker: One way forward that has the turning circle of the titanic, has lost his field vision and elite decision making due to a history of injury and is now a liability. I love this man as both a footballer and leader at his peak but right now he shouldn’t even be in the team. Wouldn’t be the best key forward at any of the contenders around the competition.

B.Crouch - Has potential to be absolutely anything and could be the gamebreaker we are screaming out for - but you have to look at what’s on paper. His body is too fragile to assess properly but you cannot call his output elite purely on the fact he’s missed so much time. No good having the Michael Jordan of the AFL if he only plays 1 in every 4 games. Not elite - yet.

M.Crouch - Probably the harshest one to evaluate. Just about the most consistent footballer in the AFL but has as much hurt factor as being slapped with a feather. I love him and I think he’s super important to our club moving forward but he isn’t a damaging midfielder. Elite accumulator - yes, elite mid of the competition - no

Smith - absolute weapon of the backline with laser beam leg and fantastic vision. Had a habit of being shutdown when the heat went up a notch but was elite. Willing to give him the benefit that he can get there again but he’s not there right now. I’ll say ? with a possible yes.

Betts - The value this guy has brought to our football club is monumental. He’s a marketers dream, he’s an ambassador for the game and he should’ve played an enormous part in turning Charlie Cameron into the second coming. Instead we’ve lost Cameron, we start the process again with Stengle and Eddie is looking like a cooked duck. Has lost a yard of pace and agility but his decision making remains the same which means he knows what he needs to do, he just can’t do it as quickly as he used to and so he utensils it up. Even at his best he was a flashy ‘moments’ player that could be shut down by the right opponent. Was elite but isn’t now.

Laird - s**t game against the hawks and has limitations due to his size but is elite. Probably our second best player after Sloane.

Jacobs - Wouldn’t start ruck at just about any other club in the league. We’ve run him into the ground, through the plates and he’s spiralling down towards the magma. If it wasn’t for the fact he’s getting paid a bucket I’d say the bloke would retire himself - not AFL standard, let alone elite.

Gibbs - Brought in as the cherry on top but has been required to step up as a leader in the absence of others. I’d say at his best he’s a very good mid but no longer elite because we got him a year too late (and still overpaid). Excellent player - not elite.

Talia: Gun backman, limited in his offensive capabilities but I’m willing to overlook that based on the fact he completely shuts down a gun week in week out. Elite stopper.

So out of the 10 most common names thrown up by General Crows fans whenever the question comes up on who are your ‘guns’ I’d say the actual reality is:

Elite:
Sloane
Laird
Talia (with limited hurt factor)

Very good:
Mrouch

?:
Brouch
Smith

Decent but starting to slide:
Gibbs

Cooked:
Betts

Thoroughly roasted and not AFL standard:
Walker
Jacobs

It’s worse when you look at those young players listed:

Milera: Could be a gun but the time is now. Needs to stamp himself on games more.

Doedee: Absolutely an elite talent. ACL’s suck.

Greenwood: Not actually ‘young’ per se and while he brings something unique to our club, he’s not elite. Love him but he’s not there.
Not only this but based on age profile and the game he plays, Sloane is going to slow up sooner rather than later.

Many of our fans think we’re still in the midst of a premiership window but truth of the matter is we’re probably one year behind starting a full blown rebuild.

Our guns (excluding Laird) are either in the wrong age profile completely or they’re carrying significant question marks as to whether they’ll ever be what they potentially could.

In this era of ridiculously fast AFL football, we simply cannot afford to be that conservative club anymore. One year can be the difference between top 4 and bottom 4 with how even the middle teams are in this league and if my suspicions are correct, we are about to be exposed this season to the fact we’re no longer a contender due to the fact that we can’t keep up speed wise with some of the younger lists about to launch into their own premiership windows.

It’s time to get real as a fanbase - we need to take the clubs utensil out of our mouth and stop buying into the one town media hype.

The window is shut.

Best post I've read on the Crows board for a year or more.

 

[relapse]

That stats credibility is hurt when you consider there are 2 grand finalists and 1 SF team in the last 5 years that started 0-2

If you want to dig deeper, 2 were Sydney and one was a team who gets 15 games at the MCG every year.

While it seems ridiculous to write teams off after 2 games, the stats do seem to back it up. If we lose on Friday we're in massive trouble.

 

[Betts are off]

If you want to dig deeper, 2 were Sydney and one was a team who gets 15 games at the MCG every year.

While it seems ridiculous to write teams off after 2 games, the stats do seem to back it up. If we lose on Friday we're in massive trouble.

Yeah thats all well and good, but if you delve deeper that way you have to be willing to delve deep the other way too.

E.g. Who had soft/hard draws?
How many had 2 consecutive home games to start the season? Or Away?
How many won both those games and still missed finals?
How many had injuries that impacted those games?
How did the expansion clubs influence these? Especially 10 years ago?
How big was the talent discrepancy between the finals clubs and non finals clubs 10 years ago (from memory that's evened out massively in the last 3 years)?

I'm not denying its an impressive stat to quote after round 1, but i'm not convinced its proof of a concrete trend, or just a coincidence that is due to correct itself (if it hasn't already started correcting itself).

 

[Geoffa32]

If you want to dig deeper, 2 were Sydney and one was a team who gets 15 games at the MCG every year.

While it seems ridiculous to write teams off after 2 games, the stats do seem to back it up. If we lose on Friday we're in massive trouble.

Geelong next Thursday is a tough game as well.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[relapse]

Geelong next Thursday is a tough game as well.

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Then we have North away after that which is another tough one

No doubt the first four rounds are a massive litmus test and is going to give us a very early indication as to how our season is going to pan out.

Before the season I would have said 2-2 after Round 4 was the bare minimum pass mark with 3-1 being the mark that would indicate that we were going to be around the mark in September.

The way we're playing, we're a good chance to be 0-4 at the end of Round 4.

 

[Vader]

Then we have North away after that which is another tough one

No doubt the first four rounds are a massive litmus test and is going to give us a very early indication as to how our season is going to pan out.

Before the season I would have said 2-2 after Round 4 was the bare minimum pass mark with 3-1 being the mark that would indicate that we were going to be around the mark in September.

The way we're playing, we're a good chance to be 0-4 at the end of Round 4.

FFS, we've had one bad game - against our bogey team - and now we're "a good chance to be 0-4"? What a load of hysterical claptrap. Two weeks ago we held GWS goalless for more than a half of footy. One bad game does not equal a 0-4 start!

 

[GreyCrow]

How many teams miss finals after getting to 11-3