Current Baden Clay - Is the case strong enough?

[campbell]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-of-wife-allison/story-e6freoof-1226599630131


Anyone following this case?
I can''t fathom how he is charged, when no cause of death was found on autopsy?
All circumstantial. A lot of men cheat on their wives, doesnt make them killers.

 

[CAS79]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-of-wife-allison/story-e6freoof-1226599630131


Anyone following this case?
I can''t fathom how he is charged, when no cause of death was found on autopsy?
All circumstantial. A lot of men cheat on their wives, doesnt make them killers.

Hey Campbell, I've changed the tread name to Baden Clay... unless you really think the boy scouts founder is responsible.

A lot of southern states have missed this as time line it has clashed with Jill Meagehr case a lot time line wise. But having read through the committal hearing evidence so far they are relying strongly on a broken marriage alone and a lot of forensic evidence about injuries on his face.

Without a cause of death being determined and the deceased having a history of depression he he has a chance of beating this.

Is there any evidence that can place him at the scene of the waterway where her body was found?

 

[campbell]

Hey Campbell, I've changed the tread name to Baden Clay... unless you really think the boy scouts founder is responsible.

A lot of southern states have missed this as time line it has clashed with Jill Meagehr case a lot time line wise. But having read through the committal hearing evidence so far they are relying strongly on a broken marriage alone and a lot of forensic evidence about injuries on his face.

Without a cause of death being determined and the deceased having a history of depression he he has a chance of beating this.

Is there any evidence that can place him at the scene of the waterway where her body was found?

ta for change of name.

nope no evidence at all......scratches, not broken skin to face.could be anything.nothing under her fingernails to say it was her, no cause of death, nothing.

lots of scuttlebutt over his afairs. no facts.

 

[CAS79]

ta for change of name.

nope no evidence at all......scratches, not broken skin to face.could be anything.nothing under her fingernails to say it was her, no cause of death, nothing.

lots of scuttlebutt over his afairs. no facts.

OK Campbell been having a look through the 5 days of the committal so far.

The prosecution have got some good use of the scratches and bruises on Baden Clay and that his reasons for having them seem to have been made up or illogical, the screaming sounds the night she disappeared and they seemed to do rather well with the plant's around her body coming from the house and not the creek.

What they don't have is a cause of death, a place of death or forensic evidence or witness evidence that places him at the scene of the Corpse disposal.

This committal will direct a full trial be heard but once there this trial wont be the easiest to have a guilty verdict returned.

 

[Tommy Pierrepoint]

ta for change of name.

nope no evidence at all......scratches, not broken skin to face.could be anything.nothing under her fingernails to say it was her, no cause of death, nothing.

lots of scuttlebutt over his afairs. no facts.

How do you explain the garden leaves all over her hair that are are not at the river. Or the clear fight they had that night and resulted face marks on her husbands face. It wasn't shaving and it wasn't a caterpillar but he was too quick to lie about it. The evidence is right in front of you and it will only get stronger when the real trial starts.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Seems a bit like the casey Anthony trial in the USA

Bugger all evidence, and relying on the circumstance of the accused to get a guilty verdict


I sit back with the popcorn

 

[Catfish Alley]

How do you explain the garden leaves all over her hair that are are not at the river. Or the clear fight they had that night and resulted face marks on her husbands face. It wasn't shaving and it wasn't a caterpillar but he was too quick to lie about it. The evidence is right in front of you and it will only get stronger when the real trial starts.

That's not even close to being enough to get a conviction. Maybe they do have more. You'd think the prosecution would have mentioned something by now though.

 

[campbell]

That's not even close to being enough to get a conviction. Maybe they do have more. You'd think the prosecution would have mentioned something by now though.

even IF his wife had of scratched him, so what.No mention of his dna under her fingernails either.

THERE is no cause of death. no strangling or smothering or drowning , nothing.

 

[CAS79]

A few of the lawyers at work have agreed with the take campbell has made of this. The belief that it's a a circumstantial based case the the Queensland OPP are lacking hard evidence that a murder has taken place let alone who did it.

There's plenty of speculation as to how it's occurred and the prosecution painted a nice motive at the committal hearing but have they got enough? Are they going to spend a million dollars plus on this case only to see it end in acquittal?

 

[campbell]

A few of the lawyers at work have agreed with the take campbell has made of this. The belief that it's a a circumstantial based case the the Queensland OPP are lacking hard evidence that a murder has taken place let alone who did it.

There's plenty of speculation as to how it's occurred and the prosecution painted a nice motive at the committal hearing but have they got enough? Are they going to spend a million dollars plus on this case only to see it end in acquittal?

I think they will do whatever they think,due to the high profile in the media.Sadly, I am not sure this is the correct thing to do, let alone being such a wste of public monies.

Same with the Patel case. Innocent, now new charges, basically the same as last.A new trial.....sad times.

 

[Black Diamond]

There are two aspects of this case which concern me greatly:

1. The behaviour of the media. They have basically decided the husband did it and want him convicted. They refer to the wife as "slain Brookfield mother Alison Baden Clay". We don't know she was "slain" at all, and the defence will probably run an argument that it was suicide. She did have a history of depression after all. This piece from Madonna King is the most disgraceful crime related article I've ever seen.
   
   
2. The stupidity of the public. Nearly every woman I know has decided he definitely did it. Most of the men I know think he probably did but are prepared to hear the evidence, but the women are just nuts. For *s sake, he gets the presumption of innocence.

 

[Catfish Alley]

It doesn't really matter what Woman's Day readers think. That's why there is a jury with a selection of peers. A court isn't going to uphold any ruling without evidence.

 

[Black Diamond]

I didn't realise Woman's Day readers are excluded from juries.

 

[campbell]

There are two aspects of this case which concern me greatly:

1. The behaviour of the media. They have basically decided the husband did it and want him convicted. They refer to the wife as "slain Brookfield mother Alison Baden Clay". We don't know she was "slain" at all, and the defence will probably run an argument that it was suicide. She did have a history of depression after all. This piece from Madonna King is the most disgraceful crime related article I've ever seen.
   
2. The stupidity of the public. Nearly every woman I know has decided he definitely did it. Most of the men I know think he probably did but are prepared to hear the evidence, but the women are just nuts. For ****s sake, he gets the presumption of innocence.

agree, it seems in the media he has been already convicted because they have deemed hew did it as he was a love rat, and his business was faultering after the floods.


I feel for his children.......as well as him.

I can''t get over the NO cause of death at autopsy.
No medical cause, no smothering, stabing,shooting,etc etc.

So how come it has gone this far.

 

[Catfish Alley]

I didn't realise Woman's Day readers are excluded from juries.

It would be a problem if they all were. That's why juries are made up with a cross section of different people. You won't get a full jury of 40 year old stay-at-home Mums.

 

[Black Diamond]

It would be a problem if they all were. That's why juries are made up with a cross section of different people. You won't get a full jury of 40 year old stay-at-home Mums.

I know. It's just the stupidity of certain cross-sections of society which annoys me.

 

[MisterMarcus]

This committal will direct a full trial be heard but once there this trial wont be the easiest to have a guilty verdict returned.

I'm no lawyer but wouldn't the lack of evidence of it actually being murder cause it to be thrown out at committal?

 

[Run n Spread]

Trial just wrapped up and the jury is deliberating.

Based on the evidence presented I don't see how a conviction is possible. Also bizzare (I think) direction from the judge that if a not guilty on murder then the jury can convict on manslaughter. How when the cause of death was not established?

The case really is paper thin and based on nothing more then rumour and supposition based on the accused affairs. The only physical evidence presented was a scratch that while maybe not your typical shaving cut (as the defence argued) sure as sh*& didn't look like a scratch or some other counter defensive measure. (No skin under the deceased fingers either). Could of come from anywhere. The other main evidence was leaves found on the deceased (Alison Baden Clay's) body contains leaves from the front yard. Yet this doesn't discount the possibility that there was another assailant (if there was none) or from a fall some other method. There is no direct physical evidence to the defendant murdering his wife or even been conclusively established a murder occurred.

If you take the view that our system functions on the basis that it is better to let 10 guilty walk than have 1 innocent convicted and a prosecution must prove guilt beyond all reasonable doubt I don't see how a conviction is possible. That's not to say the defendant is necessarily innocent but the case is circumstantial at best and there are enough holes to drive a truck through which in my mind certainly establishes a very high degree of reasonable doubt.

 

[Black Diamond]

Trial just wrapped up and the jury is deliberating.

Based on the evidence presented I don't see how a conviction is possible. Also bizzare (I think) direction from the judge that if a not guilty on murder then the jury can convict on manslaughter. How when the cause of death was not established?

The case really is paper thin and based on nothing more then rumour and supposition based on the accused affairs. The only physical evidence presented was a scratch that while maybe not your typical shaving cut (as the defence argued) sure as sh*& didn't look like a scratch or some other counter defensive measure. (No skin under the deceased fingers either). Could of come from anywhere. The other main evidence was leaves found on the deceased (Alison Baden Clay's) body contains leaves from the front yard. Yet this doesn't discount the possibility that there was another assailant (if there was none) or from a fall some other method. There is no direct physical evidence to the defendant murdering his wife or even been conclusively established a murder occurred.

If you take the view that our system functions on the basis that it is better to let 10 guilty walk than have 1 innocent convicted and a prosecution must prove guilt beyond all reasonable doubt I don't see how a conviction is possible. That's not to say the defendant is necessarily innocent but the case is circumstantial at best and there are enough holes to drive a truck through which in my mind certainly establishes a very high degree of reasonable doubt.

The manslaughter bit was a bit puzzling to me too. The prosecution is basically saying it was a deliberate, premeditated killing rather than an act of violence gone wrong or an accident. There must have been other facts arise which would allow the jury to infer manslaughter.

The whole dynamic of that family should he be found not guilty will be interesting. If I'm not mistaken the kids have been living with the mother's parents. I'd like to know if they think he is guilty, and if they have tried to persuade the kids to that effect. It's potentially very messed up.

 

[IQ3]

Even though I think he probably killed her, I doubt the jury have enough evidence to convict him...

 

[Run n Spread]

Even though I think he probably killed her, I doubt the jury have enough evidence to convict him...

Jury have come back twice to seek clarification for a key directive which the judge summed up as: "For a conviction of murder based on circumstantial evidence the circumstance must lead to murder as the only viable alternative" or words to that effect. Also asked for clarification on manslaughter.

Looks to me he is about to be nailed,possibly for manslaughter. Considering there are probably a dozen explanations to the circumstance I still don't see how a conviction could occur. Manslaughter would be weird: Almost like we think you did it but can't prove it so will have a bob each way.

Regardless of personal information surely convictions have to be on more than opinion and backed by evidence/fact. Having said that I've only followed news, reporters summing up and not been privy to all the evidence. There may be others who know more but the evidence looks bloody thin to me.

 

[Black Diamond]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but manslaughter arises in two situations.

Firstly, an assault which goes badly and the victim dies.

Secondly, a murder where the defendant has an excuse such as provocation or self-defence.

The prosecution is accusing him of a premeditated murder. I can't see how manslaughter can arise on the facts.

 

[sprockets]

Jury have come back twice to seek clarification for a key directive which the judge summed up as: "For a conviction of murder based on circumstantial evidence the circumstance must lead to murder as the only viable alternative" or words to that effect. Also asked for clarification on manslaughter.

Looks to me he is about to be nailed,possibly for manslaughter. Considering there are probably a dozen explanations to the circumstance I still don't see how a conviction could occur. Manslaughter would be weird: Almost like we think you did it but can't prove it so will have a bob each way.

Regardless of personal information surely convictions have to be on more than opinion and backed by evidence/fact. Having said that I've only followed news, reporters summing up and not been privy to all the evidence. There may be others who know more but the evidence looks bloody thin to me.

Forget news reports. Sometimes they're biased and sometimes they're not but usually they don't report all the facts. The jury will make the correct decision.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Verdict within 30 minutes.

For me, I think there are a couple of things that look bad for him, but nothing absolute. The evidence is thin and is based along the feeling that anything else aside from his involvement is unlikely. So many times we see that it is the spouse that did it and that has to stick in the mind.

However, I am mindful that this guy does not present a risk to the community. If he did it, he is hardly likely to go off killing others. The notion that we don't want a killer out in the community doesn't really apply here.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Guilty verdict delivered.

I think on the balance of probabilities, it is probably right.

On the testing of evidence, it would be interesting to see how that they reached the conclusion.

Baden-Clay when asked said he had nothing to say. That sounds resigned to his fate to me. I feel if I was innocent, I would continue to proclaim it.