Bagging players

[boodsyboy]

Not saying all players responed to getting bagged but some will want to prove their critics wrong feel like their backs to the wall and come out firing as long as its not personel dont see a problem with constructive bagging I mean they are footy players need to be hard not presious little darlings.

Example Sausage roll has a player that seems to P***s him off wont mention the name you all know who it is Im sure so I hope that player reads those post and fires right up and makes his mark in the team.

Then even his harshes critics will have to eat humble pie
and if your a true supporter of the club that pie wont taste so bad Go Tigers 2009.

Please comment.

 

[mitch richmond]

I hope that player reads those post and fires right up and makes his mark in the team.
Please comment.

I'm pretty sure Trent Cotchin has better things to do than read the crap people write on this website.

 

[boodsyboy]

yes but Trent Cotchin is not one of those copping it week in week out id he?

 

[mitch richmond]

yes but Trent Cotchin is not one of those copping it week in week out id he?

No! Really?

 

[boodsyboy]

Well mitch I havent read any posts that bag him yes i remember nut saying something last year but to nuts credit when debuted for the club nut retracted his post to admit he was proved wrong.

 

[Sausage roll]

Not saying all players responed to getting bagged but some will want to prove their critics wrong feel like their backs to the wall and come out firing as long as its not personel dont see a problem with constructive bagging I mean they are footy players need to be hard not presious little darlings.

Example Sausage roll has a player that seems to P***s him off wont mention the name you all know who it is Im sure so I hope that player reads those post and fires right up and makes his mark in the team.

Then even his harshes critics will have to eat humble pie
and if your a true supporter of the club that pie wont taste so bad Go Tigers 2009.

Please comment.

???

Who is he talking about??

 

[boodsyboy]

A player with 3 names Sausage

 

[Strawbs]

Not saying all players responed to getting bagged but some will want to prove their critics wrong feel like their backs to the wall and come out firing as long as its not personel dont see a problem with constructive bagging I mean they are footy players need to be hard not presious little darlings.

Example Sausage roll has a player that seems to P***s him off wont mention the name you all know who it is Im sure so I hope that player reads those post and fires right up and makes his mark in the team.

Then even his harshes critics will have to eat humble pie
and if your a true supporter of the club that pie wont taste so bad Go Tigers 2009.

Please comment.

You're not serious? Surely they're only interested in feedback from their coaches and teammates. I would hate to think they're taking any notice of some of the tripe posted on Bigfooty.

 

[HBK619]

JON, JON, JON!
l

 

[sante]

Example Sausage roll has a player that seems to P***s him off wont mention the name you all know who it is

Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls.

 

[boodsyboy]

mm you win the chocolate sante.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Interesting topic when viewed in the context of the following article:

From the Fox site:

Sensitive new age

October 29, 2008

KEVIN Sheedy lost his job, in part, for failing a test about them. Mark Williams has changed his office to accommodate them, tossing out the traditional seats around a desk to have a sofa, iPod holder and big flat-screen television.

The hierarchy system of boss and employee has been cast aside to make his office feel like a player's lounge room.

Every AFL coach is being watched for how they relate to them and, as with Sheedy at Essendon last year, is at risk of being replaced by a younger man who will understand them.

AFL now is dominated by them - players born between 1982 and the start of the new millennium in 2001.

They are "Generation Y".

At Port Adelaide, all but four players are of the Generation Y era. Their coach, Williams, was born two generations back - in 1958 with the group tagged the "Baby Boomers".

At the Adelaide Football Club, only five players are not Generation Y. Their coach, Neil Craig, also is a Baby Boomer - born in 1956.

The emphasis on Generation Y is to grow with this year's youth-dominated AFL national draft turing Australia's premier football competition into the Y-League.

Denis Pagan, now 60, is about to face nothing but Generation Y players as he makes his comeback to coaching - in the pre-AFL level of the Victorian under-18 TAC Cup.

After being linked to mature-age teams, including North Adelaide in the SANFL, Pagan - a year after being tossed out by Carlton - will take charge of the Northern Knights.

The North Melbourne premiership coach (1996 and 1999) and Essendon reserves premiership coach (1992) has not worked exclusively with junior footballers since 1991 when he completed his five-flag run with the Kangaroos under-19 team.

Pagan, however, will not be reflecting on the 1980s in adjusting his coaching from senior to under-age teams.

Rather, he will thinking of his early days at Carlton in 2003 when he realised the new generation of AFL draftees was demanding a new way of coaching.

As history records, players ultimately break coaches.

Ask Graham Cornes (Adelaide, 1994), Malcolm Blight (Adelaide, 1999 and St Kilda, 2001) and now Leigh Matthews (Brisbane, this year).

"I had not been at Carlton long before I realised I would have to modify my ways," Pagan says.

"I had confronted a senior player about eradicating his bad habit of gaining cunning 'handball receives' across the back.

"As I spoke to him I could see him wilting in front of my eyes. It was as if he had never been spoken to like that before.

"I knew at that stage I had to reinvent again - become more reserved, laid back and transform myself into a 'sensitive new-age' mentor. Some might argue that is still a work in progress."

If technology, fitness programs, statistics, the tactical influence from other sports and even the media and big business with their exposure and big money have not changed AFL coaching enough, Generation Y certainly has redefined the boundaries of where a coach can and cannot go.

"The caper," Pagan says, "is barely recognisable from the one I became involved with in the 1980s.

"Gone are the days of blood-and-thunder speeches, of half-time sprays that stripped the paint of changeroom walls or of the imperious attitude to players - 'my way or the highway'."

No wonder current AFL coaches, in particular Craig, cringe whenever their post-match press conferences throw up questions asking if he "laid down the law" to players at half-time.

The consequences of an AFL coach ranting and raving at his Generation Y players inevitably is the complete opposite to what came from the Generation X players of the 1970s and 1980s. They will not perform but demand to be traded to another club or, more to the point, another coach.

"Those philosophies (of football folklore)," Pagan says, "have all pretty much gone the way of the dinosaur - and do belong in a museum.

"Today, there is a new set of teaching practices that old-time coaches such as Norm Smith, Ron Barassi and John Kennedy simply would struggle to recognise.

"Coaching in the new millenium has become a much more 'touchy-feely' occupation.

"The emphasise is on dialogue - of constantly explaining and rationalising your decisions - and of positive reinforcement and nurturing.

"Young players now respond to positive messages and of being made to feel valued rather than being aggressively challenged about their performance.

"Confrontation, shouting and criticism is a last-gasp measure.

"This is Generation Y - it is 'why this, why that' all the time.

"Young footballers, not so long ago, did as their coach told them - no questions asked.

"It was inconceivable that a young player would ever question a coach, let alone defy him.

"At North Melbourne, I had a group of players who were enormously resilient - physically and mentally tough. Very little I said to them caused them a problem, even if it was sometimes couched in harsh and uncompromising language.

The message got through and was never taken personally.

"The players were not full-time, but in the workplace alongside adults. They were mature beyond their years.

"Today's 20-something footballer is usually involved full-time in his sport and, as often as not, living at home where mum still cooks the meals.

"The contrast between then (Generation X) and now (Generation Y) is telling.

"Coaches older than 40 or 45 who are in charge of Generation Y players will need to be able to talk their language to communicate with them.

You will need to know about Facebook and MySpace and YouTube and every form of communication that were unheard of five years ago."

In the AFL, only three coaches have not celebrated their 40th birthday yet - Michael Voss at Brisbane, Brett Ratten at Carlton and Matthew Knights at Essendon.

The other 13 are being challenged to deal with Generation Y and will have their clubs, as Essendon did with Sheedy last year, put them to a test to measure how they relate to today's AFL generation.

Pagan, however, says one aspect of coaching translate through all generations.

"Remember," Pagan says, "each of your players is an individual. They are unique and every one of them has to be treated differently.

"There will be gregarious, outgoing players. There will be quiet, introverted players. And there will be many somewhere in between.

"To get optimal results, the coach must know which buttons to push.

"That is an essential part of coaching - and once you've lost the art of communicating with your players, you will end up losing them altogether."

Plenty of 'good old fashioned bakes' for them still on the fan sites...be interesting to know how many read them occasionally...hopefully none.

The article is also interesting to ponder for those who complain Wallace seldom gives the players a public spray at 1/4 and 3/4 time. Maybe he's been smart enough to work out (faster than some of his fellow coaches) the 'new mentality' of players and changed his coaching persona from Year of the Dogs firebrand Terry to something altogether different.

And maybe he still is pretty 'old style' behind closed doors, and that is a source of friction with some.

I'd guess it would be the former.

 

[boodsyboy]

yer I spose it the way of the world now s******** rule I have to laugh when Beckham was voted the manly man of the year lol

 

[Top_4_Tiger]

They make it sound like everyone was tougher and better in the good old days.

The reality is, the population is becoming more intelligent. They need rational reasons, they need answers; not mindless abuse.

It's a fact that humans respond better to positive reinforcement.

The only types who respond to primative, caveman-like talk are idiot bogans working overtime to understand what was just said.

Gen Y >>> Gen X

 

[freezer]

They make it sound like everyone was tougher and better in the good old days.

The reality is, the population is becoming more intelligent. They need rational reasons, they need answers; not mindless abuse.

It's a fact that humans respond better to positive reinforcement.

The only types who respond to primative, caveman-like talk are idiot bogans working overtime to understand what was just said.

Gen Y >>> Gen X

Mate, us gen Xs don't need every statement and decision rationalised and sugar coated, because we're either - smart enough to nut it out for ourselves, or have enough respect for the person the message is coming from that we don't need to question everything!! Coaches coach, players play, etc.

In your world a simple end to end drill would take 4 hours of 'rational explanation' to organise ("but why do I need to start at the back flank?") and a days counselling if the coach gave someone a spray for over hitting three passes in a row.

The young footballer, almost burting into tears because Pagan gave him a strong but honest appraisal of his form... Pathetic!!

Grow a sack and harden the f*** up, my young gen Y friend...

 

[Mario Speedwagon]

Well your obviously one of those "idiotic bogans" in Top_4_Tiger's nuetered little metrosexual world....

But seriously...his way of thinking, greatly disturbs and frustrates me...

They make it sound like everyone was tougher and better in the good old days.

The reality is, the population is becoming more intelligent. They need rational reasons, they need answers; not mindless abuse.

It's a fact that humans respond better to positive reinforcement.

The only types who respond to primative, caveman-like talk are idiot bogans working overtime to understand what was just said.

Gen Y >>> Gen X

Are you serious? I think that may just be the most laughable load of bollocks I've ever read.Society has never been more dumbed-down than it is now. Most people these days could be convinced that the world is flat, all it would take is a slick advertising campaign or a series of "exposes" on A Current Affair. Half the populace is barely literate.Go read this forum for starters, if you need any proof. People can't even be arsed to spell basic words like "you" and "to" or properly articulate that they find something amusing , instead resorting to using childish acronyms.(And some them aren't just kids and are actually old enough to know better..they know who they are....)

Notions of "positive reinforcement" and "self esteem" are nothing but vacuous Southern Californian psycho-babble and double-speak. That crap is why we see so many delusional kids who can't carry a tune audition for Idol and why idiotic shows like that and Big Brother are popular. Why our schools are a joke. Western society is in a state of decline and on the verge of collapse, rotting with moral,spiritual and intellectual decay. People everywhere living beyond their means, brainwashed and blinded by empty materialism and embarking on worthless pursuits, leading meaningless lives and obssessed with the trivial. Weakness, decadence and stupidity is celebrated and encouraged like never before. The glib and the shallow are worshipped. The only thing shrinking faster than the world itself is our attention spans, at the opposite end of the spectrum everyone's sense of entitlement is only growing at the same rapid rate.

Sure some questionable ideas of the past are now rightly redundant, but in reality the babies that were common sense and noble values have by and large been thrown out with the bathwater of those incorrigable bigotries and backwards schools of thought in our rush to cleanse our consciences of both real and perceived injustices of before.The ignorance of old has merely been replaced by new kinds, if anything , more subtle and insidious. Basic manners and human decency have virtually no currency, real debate and opinion is ever increasingly surpressed, marginalised and shouted down as is a genuine diversity of thought....and I haven't even scratched the surface.
The last century was the most violent in human history, but it was a just a dress rehearsal for this one, all the same conditions that gave rise to extremism are in place at the turn of this century as they were at the turn of the last, only ten fold ,and the fact is these supposedly sensitive new age attitudes that you've praised are at least partly to blame for a lot of what's going on, as they are ultimately destructive to a cohesive, balanced, enlightened and well adjusted society. Stop living in a dreamworld and open your eyes, son, it's the fall of Rome all over again, and then some.

 

[Dave Stevens]

Well your obviously one of those "idiotic bogans" in Top_4_Tiger's nuetered little metrosexual world....

But seriously...his way of thinking, greatly disturbs and frustrates me...



Are you serious? I think that may just be the most laughable load of bollocks I've ever read.Society has never been more dumbed-down than it is now. Most people these days could be convinced that the world is flat, all it would take is a slick advertising campaign or a series of "exposes" on A Current Affair. Half the populace is barely literate.Go read this forum for starters, if you need any proof. People can't even be arsed to spell basic words like "you" and "to" or properly articulate that they find something amusing , instead resorting to using childish acronyms.(And some them aren't just kids and are actually old enough to know better..they know who they are....)

Notions of "positive reinforcement" and "self esteem" are nothing but vacuous Southern Californian psycho-babble and double-speak. That crap is why we see so many delusional kids who can't carry a tune audition for Idol and why idiotic shows like that and Big Brother are popular. Why our schools are a joke. Western society is in a state of decline and on the verge of collapse, rotting with moral,spiritual and intellectual decay. People everywhere living beyond their means, brainwashed and blinded by empty materialism and embarking on worthless pursuits, leading meaningless lives and obssessed with the trivial. Weakness, decadence and stupidity is celebrated and encouraged like never before. The glib and the shallow are worshipped. The only thing shrinking faster than the world itself is our attention spans, at the opposite end of the spectrum everyone's sense of entitlement is only growing at the same rapid rate.

Sure some questionable ideas of the past are now rightly redundant, but in reality the babies that were common sense and noble values have by and large been thrown out with the bathwater of those incorrigable bigotries and backwards schools of thought in our rush to cleanse our consciences of both real and perceived injustices of before.The ignorance of old has merely been replaced by new kinds, if anything , more subtle and insidious. Basic manners and human decency have virtually no currency, real debate and opinion is ever increasingly surpressed, marginalised and shouted down as is a genuine diversity of thought....and I haven't even scratched the surface.
The last century was the most violent in human history, but it was a just a dress rehearsal for this one, all the same conditions that gave rise to extremism are in place at the turn of this century as they were at the turn of the last, only ten fold ,and the fact is these supposedly sensitive new age attitudes that you've praised are at least partly to blame for a lot of what's going on, as they are ultimately destructive to a cohesive, balanced, enlightened and well adjusted society. Stop living in a dreamworld and open your eyes, son, it's the fall of Rome all over again, and then some.

Wow! Maybe you thought you were posting on bigphilosophy.com?

 

[coke_zero]

Wow! Maybe you thought you were posting on bigphilosophy.com?

i didnt even bother reading it

 

[emperor]

LMAO if a player needs the continual rantings of a poster dubbed "The Snag" to motivate himself

he really is stuffed if thats the case! (which it wouldn't be....i hope)

 

[emperor]

Half the populace is barely literate.Go read this forum for starters, if you need any proof. People can't even be arsed to spell basic words like "you" and "to" or properly articulate that they find something amusing , instead resorting to using childish acronyms.(And some them aren't just kids and are actually old enough to know better..they know who they are....)

.

A lot of that post has merit but in all seriousness Mario, we are posting on a football fan forum, we come here to talk shit with others, not write a bloody literary masterpiece

 

[Mario Speedwagon]

Enter Dave Stevens & Coke Zero...exhibits A & B right on cue...

 

[boodsyboy]

Nice one Mario ,nice one

 

[Dave Stevens]

Enter Dave Stevens & Coke Zero...exhibits A & B right on cue...

Great to see the torrent of reasoned debate, and idea exchange as a result of your post MS.

Bag me if you like, but everyone else just thought it was going to be another load of meaningless tripe, and ignored it.

Lighten up hombre, after all you've named yourself after the poster-boys for American power ballad schlock. You ain't Jean Paul Sartre.

There ought be a bidding war between Andrew Bolt and Sam Kekovich for the reproduction rights to your rant, so kudos for that.

 

[boodsyboy]

Well I must say this thread has certainly surprised me with the direction that some of the posts have gone very happy with it great work lads have found some of the post interesting to say the least

 

[the ranger]

AFL now is dominated by them - players born between 1982 and the start of the new millennium in 2001.

Just how many 7 year olds are in the AFL? Weird choice of years. 1982 and 1991 would have been much more sensible. Stupid journalists.