Bailey rules out youth policy/bottoming out

[whelan=legend]

Aging list means players over the age of 25......

Thats funny, considering players are generally considered in their prime at 25-27 years old.

 

[CaptainDavey]

Thats funny, considering players are generally considered in their prime at 25-27 years old.

Going by his standards, in football terms Shane Crawford needs a walking frame and life support and Robert Harvey belongs in a museum

 

[CaptainDavey]

Also I have found IRREFUTABLE evidence that this tanking bullshit simply does not work. So all you doomsayers and pro tankers can take a flying leap. Borrowed from the main board...

Adelaide 0 -
Brisbane 5 - Lappin, Johnstone, Power, Brennan, Leuenberger
Carlton 5 - Judd, Walker, Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer
C'Wood 5 - Rocca, Fraser, Didak, Thomas, Pendlebury
Essendon 2 - Lucas, Gumbleton
Fremantle 3 - Headland, Haselby, Pavlich
Geelong 1 - Ottens
Hawthorn 5 - Croad, Hodge, Roughead, Ellis, Franklin
Melbourne 4 - White, Sylvia, McLean, Morton
N Melbourne 4 - Grant, Brown, Wells, Hansen
P Adelaide 1 - Boak
Richmond 4 - Polak, Deledio, Tambling, Cotchin
St Kilda 7 - Gardiner, Fiora, Riewoldt, Koschitzke, Ball, Clarke, Goddard
Sydney 2 - Fosdike, McViegh
West Coast 2 - Kennedy, Masten
W Bulldogs 5 - McDougall, Cooney, Ray, Griffen, Grant

The amount of top 5 picks clubs have received.

West Coast, Sydney, Port, Brisbane, Essendon and Geelong are the teams to taste the ultimate success in September during the 2000's and have miniscule amounts of top 5 picks.

Of Brisbanes 5, only 2 (Possibly 3, I am not sure about Brennan) are premiership players.

Of West Coasts 2, none are premiership players.

Of Essendons 2, one is a premiership player.

Of Geelongs only pick, he is of course a premiership player.

Both of Sydneys are premiership players.

Port has no top 5 pick premiership player.

Johnstone and Ottens came from other clubs top 5 picks, thus not being involved in another clubs 'rebuild'

Although on the other side of the coin, it can be suggested West Coast had an extra pick in Chris Judd who was a premiership player, as was Des Headland. However this does not change the fact that this highlights that striving for lower picks does not get you success. Look at Adelaide who have won two flags off the back of no early draft pick. Also those with a plethora of picks such as Hawthorn, St Kilda, the Bulldogs and of course our own club, they have done SFA in terms of success.

Nuff said. Get back all you tanking degenerates

 

[CaptainDavey]

I would also like to highlight Geelong as being the main defence against tanking and bottoming out.

Don't give me father and son crap, two elite players do not make a premiership team. That would be all for now

 

[malodeez]

tanking isn't the issue with melbourne. we need support from supporters to become members. our supporter base is pathetic and none of our fans care about this club, no one turns up and every time i go to the G i'm embarrased by the amount of support we really have, and lack of passion involved in the crowd. the club need a marketable figure to advertise why "YOU" being the people should follow melbourne (natanui). we don't have the luxury of average membership of 35000 year in year out. Two other teams will be here soon, to rape all our picks that the deez deserve. otherwise we'll be holding the rest of the comp up for a long while. hope i'm wrong about that. in my opinion we need to take advantage of the next 2 years and stock up severly. time IS an issue for us and we cant afford to finish 10th every year an attract no new fans with shit performances while in this time hawthorn has won 2 flags for building a team the way the system allowed them to. you all know i'm right out there and deep down your all closet tankers. the average supporter wants to see success NOW not in 25 years like some of you say cause you wanna do the "right thing" and not sell out. Hawthorn is the perfect template for how a team should be built, their young players got smashed all over the field, now look at them, didnt seem to effect those guys to much. sorry everyone but in this world u need to go backwards to go forwards

 

[CaptainDavey]

tanking isn't the issue with melbourne. we need support from supporters to become members. our supporter base is pathetic and none of our fans care about this club, no one turns up and every time i go to the G i'm embarrased by the amount of support we really have, and lack of passion involved in the crowd. the club need a marketable figure to advertise why "YOU" being the people should follow melbourne (natanui). we don't have the luxury of average membership of 35000 year in year out. Two other teams will be here soon, to rape all our picks that the deez deserve. otherwise we'll be holding the rest of the comp up for a long while. hope i'm wrong about that. in my opinion we need to take advantage of the next 2 years and stock up severly. time IS an issue for us and we cant afford to finish 10th every year an attract no new fans with shit performances while in this time hawthorn has won 2 flags for building a team the way the system allowed them to. you all know i'm right out there and deep down your all closet tankers. the average supporter wants to see success NOW not in 25 years like some of you say cause you wanna do the "right thing" and not sell out. Hawthorn is the perfect template for how a team should be built, their young players got smashed all over the field, now look at them, didnt seem to effect those guys to much. sorry everyone but in this world u need to go backwards to go forwards

So why is it the best teams of the past 8 years have won flags without tanking?

I'd certainly like you to explain particularly Geelong and Sydney. And no, using the father/son rule does not count. And explain why Adelaide have been so consistently competitive without bottoming out/tanking? And why clubs who have supposedly tanked (Melbourne, Collingwood, Hawthorn, Carlton) have achieved sweet fruck all?

Don't be so goddamn self righteous. You are not in a position to call THE MAJORITY of this football club 'closet tankers' and yes that includes the club, the players, the administration, the fans, the coaches, everyone. You are firmly in the minority here.

I'd like a chance for you to explain to someone like David Neitz or James McDonald exactly what you're trying to preach here. How friggen insulting for the players that would be

 

[RandB]

tanking isn't the issue with melbourne. we need support from supporters to become members. our supporter base is pathetic and none of our fans care about this club, no one turns up and every time i go to the G i'm embarrased by the amount of support we really have, and lack of passion involved in the crowd. the club need a marketable figure to advertise why "YOU" being the people should follow melbourne (natanui). we don't have the luxury of average membership of 35000 year in year out. Two other teams will be here soon, to rape all our picks that the deez deserve. otherwise we'll be holding the rest of the comp up for a long while. hope i'm wrong about that. in my opinion we need to take advantage of the next 2 years and stock up severly. time IS an issue for us and we cant afford to finish 10th every year an attract no new fans with shit performances while in this time hawthorn has won 2 flags for building a team the way the system allowed them to. you all know i'm right out there and deep down your all closet tankers. the average supporter wants to see success NOW not in 25 years like some of you say cause you wanna do the "right thing" and not sell out. Hawthorn is the perfect template for how a team should be built, their young players got smashed all over the field, now look at them, didnt seem to effect those guys to much. sorry everyone but in this world u need to go backwards to go forwards

Son, the more you push shit up hill, the bigger the hill becomes.

The smarter and more passionate Melbourne supporters out there are the ones who have been through highs and lows over a couple of decades if not longer. A gun like Naita is obviously going to be a great acquisition to any team but one player is not going to solve all the problems you have raised. Tanking is admitting that you are not good enough - plain and simple. For too long Melbourne has been part of those battling Vic clubs that kid themselves that next year may be better even though we simply played one year at a time while other clubs actually built and controlled their destiny - without having to tank.

What Melbourne needs is to change it's whole outlook on how success is acheived and how supporters/members want to be apart of that. Believe me, short term gains are just for dreamers. Melbourne supporters are sick of the ups and downs and seeing the boys go out there year in and year out knowing next year is not part of the equation.
I want to see the club get to a position where they have an even chance every year and that means planning, infrastructure and developing the team. I would rather see the club do the right thing (long term) and perhaps win a premiership one day than try and rush it and get caught up with draft picks etc. As has been said by many posters, Bailey is trying to change the culture and psyche of the team (and club to a lesser extent) for the future.

Let's do it right or not at all!

 

[CaptainDavey]

A gun like Naita is obviously going to be a great acquisition to any team but one player is not going to solve all the problems

Bloody oath. I'd rather Nathan Jones and Brock McLean be the poster boys of the club. We have to try and breed success as opposed to bending over and getting reamed with a smile on our faces. What a pathetic, defeatist mentality that would be

 

[RandB]

Bloody oath. I'd rather Nathan Jones and Brock McLean be the poster boys of the club. We have to try and breed success as opposed to bending over and getting reamed with a smile on our faces. What a pathetic, defeatist mentality that would be

Yep, if you have to sell your soul then you aren't going anywhere.

This is as much about Dean Bailey as anything as well CD. The guy has just come on board and to even contemplate having to tank after coming from a successfull interstate club would be absolute madness to him. How the hell can Bailey make us better across the whole board (which is what we require) if the team has to go backwards? Bailey wants to take 44 players (omit the ones leaving at end of year I guess) and make them accomplished AFL footballers and in turn interact as an accomplished AFL team. Straight down the line and hard work.

 

[McLean_4_Captain]

Hawthorn is the perfect template for how a team should be built, their young players got smashed all over the field, now look at them, didnt seem to effect those guys to much. sorry everyone but in this world u need to go backwards to go forwards

I do not agree with your theory in the slightest, but i'll put that aside for this comment.

Hawthorn rebuilt their side over a 5-6 year period of outside the 8 finishes and with 2 years in the bottom 3.
There is only 1 more draft where you'll have access to kids who turn 18 up to april next year, the 2009 draft rules change and kids will have to be 18 during 2009 to be drafted, so the 2009 draft pool will be a limited one, basically kids born april to december 1991.
Then in 2010 GC get the first 5 picks as well as about another 5 in the top 20.
In 2011 WS get the first 5 picks as well as about another 5 in the top 20.

If you are suggesting that we use the hawthorn model, you are suggesting that we finish near the bottom and try to rebuild when the best pick we can achieve by finishing last is pick 6? And because we're sh!t, we'll have less trade bate, while teams like hawthorn & geelong can sell players to GC & WS and be finishing on top and winning premierships, while still getting a top 5 pick.

So whether you agree with using the hawthorn rebuilding model or not ceases to be relevant, it just wont work over the next 5 or so years because any benefit of finishing near the bottom is largely negated by ridiculous priority picks to the new team.


Can you honestly say that you believe that this model is the right course of action to be taken during the years when all the bottom picks belong to the new clubs or the clubs trading players to the new clubs?

 

[2 Dogs]

I'd rather we build a champion team than a team of champions.

If we start this new journey of the MFC with a defeatest attitude, how can we be expected to suddenly change and get out of it? Bailey is doing everything I could have asked of him. We have a great bunch of young kids (22 and under) in our squad, and we should be excited about where they can take us. By developing these guys together, we will be better off, but not by deliberately losing games just to add another player. Thats exactly how you ruin exciting young talent. Fair enough we may end up with Naitanui, but the harm caused to our young players because of it is worse.

What ever happened to finishing last being the most worst possible result? If a win in round 22 is the difference between wooden spoon and pick 1, or second last and pick 2, I'll be cheering our boys right to the line.

F#ck Naitanui, team success takes priority over any individual.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

Aging list with players that are so out of form that it's not funny.... Hence the reason why you guys are down the bottom of the ladder.
Aging list means players over the age of 25......

Unless you ARE Suzi Olsen or had another username back in the day, get her out of your avatar as you weren't around to experience what it was like. Don't stain the memory.

 

[carntheroos4eva]

Unless you ARE Suzi Olsen or had another username back in the day, get her out of your avatar as you weren't around to experience what it was like. Don't stain the memory.

How about you grow up and take a good hard look at what this topic is about instead?



You guys lost again all because your so called stars were out of form.

 

[MicksterD]

Unless you ARE Suzi Olsen or had another username back in the day, get her out of your avatar as you weren't around to experience what it was like. Don't stain the memory.

Where'd that come from mate

 

[ausde13]

Thats a great point Woody but Geelong is probably the exception to the rule in that they managed to draft well when the odds were against them. No-one is saying that its impossible to do well after being in the middle of the pack, its just much more difficult and the majority of teams don't do well i.e. from memory the Tiges finished 9th more than anyone else and look where they are now...still just below middle!

Father son rule before it was changed also help them. But yes they drafted very well and developed a list and team plan with one coach, even though they almost sacked him at one point.