The Law BAKE THAT CAKE .... WAX THOSE BALLS

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Geelong_Sicko

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 11, 2007
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What Craven Morehead said is not the law in most states in Australia and Canada. You only need to self-ID to be considered a woman under Australian and Canadian law.

Eg

Scrapping a "cruel and unfair" law will mean trans and intersex people in Victoria will no longer need gender reassignment surgery before they can change the sex recorded on their birth certificate.​
Gender diverse people, including children in some circumstances, will be free to self-nominate their sex as male, female or many other non-binary descriptors of their choice, under a bill the Andrews government will introduce to parliament on Tuesday.​
Society ITSELF is transitioning and to be completely fair our laws need to refect this. People should be able to change their birth cert gender, but in binary cases (male to female, female to male) only after full re-assignment. I don't quite know what non-binary descriptors might be out there but I'm sure there would be a case-by-case solution for them as well.
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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Jul 30, 2018
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Society ITSELF is transitioning and to be completely fair our laws need to refect this. People should be able to change their birth cert gender, but in binary cases (male to female, female to male) only after full re-assignment. I don't quite know what non-binary descriptors might be out there but I'm sure there would be a case-by-case solution for them as well.
That’s the law as it stood for years. You are basically reiterating a reactionary, non-progressive law.

But as for the birth certificate, doesn’t that confirm sex at birth? Are we saying observations made by trained scientific professionals are wrong?
 

CM86

Anindilyakwa
Sep 21, 2009
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That’s the law as it stood for years. You are basically reiterating a reactionary, non-progressive law.

But as for the birth certificate, doesn’t that confirm sex at birth? Are we saying observations made by trained scientific professionals are wrong?
No.

I think it's a matter of privacy.
Birth certificates are used for a lot of identification requirements. So there needs to be a solid and clear line between the existing person and their birth certificate.
But, if you're a fully transitioned man or woman, what rights do you have to keep that information private?
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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No.

I think it's a matter of privacy.
Birth certificates are used for a lot of identification requirements. So there needs to be a solid and clear line between the existing person and their birth certificate.
But, if you're a fully transitioned man or woman, what rights do you have to keep that information private?
The old birth certificate gets trashed and a new one gets reissued. Ultimately it means subjective personal interpretation overrides a doctor’s expert opinion.

Good to know science is expendable when we need it to be. Now, about climate change ...
 

CM86

Anindilyakwa
Sep 21, 2009
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The old birth certificate gets trashed and a new one gets reissued. Ultimately it means subjective personal interpretation overrides a doctor’s expert opinion.

Good to know science is expendable when we need it to be. Now, about climate change ...
Why do you so deliberately misinterpret my posts?
You're a very intelligent person. Stop doing that... I don't need to finger paint my points for you...
 

Geelong_Sicko

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 11, 2007
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What crimes meet this definition?

If someone commits fraud or theft should they be able to legally change their identity and erase the old one?
Fraud and theft aren't in the same league as murder. I mean look at Denyer's crimes


Denyer, aged 20-21 and identifying as male at the time of her crimes, started to stalk and attack a number of women in and around the Melbourne suburb of Frankston during a five-month period in 1993. The first known incident attributed to Denyer occurred in February 1993, when Donna Vanes' Claude Street unit in Seaford was broken into. After a series of disturbing prank-calls, Vanes was fearful of being alone. Arriving home with her boyfriend at around 1:00am, having been out for about an hour, they found that her cats' throats had been slashed, as had the walls, furniture, and some of her baby's clothes. Female pornographic imagery was also found, and the message "Donna you’re dead" written in blood on the wall. Unwilling to stay at the unit, she moved in with her sister, who was living in the unit next to Denyer, and whose neighbour had also recently been the victim of a break-in slasher.

The first murder victim was 18-year-old Elizabeth Stevens, who had come to Melbourne from Tasmania in January 1993 to study at TAFE Frankston. Living in Paterson Avenue, Langwarrin, with her aunt and uncle, she had alighted from a bus at the stop on Cranbourne Road, on Friday 11 June. As she had been expected home at around 8:00pm, her uncle started searching for her in his car at 10:00pm, and the police were notified around 1:00am, but little could be done given the bad weather that day. The next morning a man found her partially concealed body in Lloyd Park Reserve: she had been strangled, stabbed, her throat had been slashed, and a criss-cross pattern was carved into her chest.

A month later, on Thursday 8 July, 41-year-old Rosza Toth alighted at Seaford railway station, and headed north along Railway Parade on her way home. Around 5:50pm, as she walked past Seaford North Reserve, she noticed a man loitering near the toilet block, and was attacked shortly after passing him. Toth was dragged into the park, but broke free after Denyer held a fake gun to her head, and she pretended to submit. Shaken, and with light injuries, she then ran back to the road, stopped a car, and was assisted by the driver back to her house.

That same night the second murder victim, 22 year-old Deborah Fream who lived near Kananook Station, Seaford, was abducted in her car in the early evening. She had left her 12-day-old son at home with a male friend when she went out at 7:00pm on a short trip to buy some milk for an omelette dinner. By 8:00pm, when she still hadn't returned, he called her boyfriend, the police, and the local hospital seeking news of her whereabouts and possible accidents. The friend and boyfriend drove around trying to locate her, then reported her missing at Frankston Police Station. On the afternoon of Monday 12 July, a farmer found Fream's partially covered body on Taylors Road, Carrum Downs; like Stevens, she had been strangled, savagely slashed, and her throat cut.

On Friday 30 July, the third and final victim, 17-year-old schoolgirl Natalie Russell, was attacked while walking home from John Paul College. Despite media speculation, heightened public fear, and warnings from her school, she had taken her usual short cut home to Frankston North, a fenced walkway (now called Nat's Track in her memory) which passes between two golf courses on Skye Road. At 8:00pm, Russell was reported missing to Frankston Police Station, and a police search soon found her body. She had been dragged from the path through a large hole in a wire fence into adjacent scrub. She had died in a similar manner to the others, but during the attack she had put up a considerable fight, which assisted investigators due to DNA evidence finally being available at the scene...
and then look at the crimes of your average fraudster or thief. Not to lessen the victim impact of the latter two but they're hardly the same are they?

What's your opinion of this?
 

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Geelong_Sicko

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 11, 2007
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That’s the law as it stood for years. You are basically reiterating a reactionary, non-progressive law.

But as for the birth certificate, doesn’t that confirm sex at birth? Are we saying observations made by trained scientific professionals are wrong?
Course not. They're just observing what they can see and assess at the time. But it is the individuals right to change anything about themselves, and have this legally recognised as such. I don't have a problem whatsoever with birth certs being changed to suit the individual.
 

sorted

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 21, 2016
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Society ITSELF is transitioning and to be completely fair our laws need to refect this. People should be able to change their birth cert gender, but in binary cases (male to female, female to male) only after full re-assignment. I don't quite know what non-binary descriptors might be out there but I'm sure there would be a case-by-case solution for them as well.
Tasmania, ACT, Northern Territory, Western Australia and South Australia have all removed the requirement for re-assignment surgery to occur before a birth certificate gender is changed. Victoria is still debating the change.

Feminist groups oppose the change.

Victoria's proposed bill would present a radical shift in how we currently recognise sex and gender, who can access women's spaces and women's opportunities, and therefore how we safeguard women's rights.​

 

Geelong_Sicko

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 11, 2007
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Tasmania, ACT, Northern Territory, Western Australia and South Australia have all removed the requirement for re-assignment surgery to occur before a birth certificate gender is changed. Victoria is still debating the change.

Feminist groups oppose the change.

Victoria's proposed bill would present a radical shift in how we currently recognise sex and gender, who can access women's spaces and women's opportunities, and therefore how we safeguard women's rights.​

See, I reckon you still need the snip, nip, tuck outie/innie surgery to fully transition and therefore finally change genders. Their mind might already be there but the body hasn't quite caught up with things yet. But I'm just one man with an opinion.
 

sorted

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 21, 2016
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See, I reckon you still need the snip, nip, tuck outie/innie surgery to fully transition and therefore finally change genders. Their mind might already be there but the body hasn't quite caught up with things yet. But I'm just one man with an opinion.
Sex and gender are two different things.

A person is born either male or female courtesy of their chromosomes. There's a few very rare conditions in between. Surgical operations can reconstruct sexual organs to some extent but it doesn't change the underlying sex. A man won't have periods and a woman can't produce sperm.

Gender is more of a lifestyle choice - mostly men identifying as a female and vice versa, with optional hormone treatment and clothing choices. But you can also choose your gender description with the options only limited by whether the Registrar of Births, Deaths and Marriages deems it obscene or offensive.

A birth certificate records the details of a child at the time of birth. It should be possible to amend it where errors have been made - such as the wrong date or father recorded. I would include Intersex people who are born with sex characteristics that do not fit typical binary notions of male or female bodies.

A new birth certificate should not be issued for a sex change operation. Some kind of change documentation could be issued. The recent proposals for changing birth certificates based on gender lifestyle are absolute nonsense.
 

Better Loosen Up

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 2, 2009
7,191
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Melbourne
AFL Club
North Melbourne
What Craven Morehead said is not the law in most states in Australia and Canada. You only need to self-ID to be considered a woman under Australian and Canadian law.

Eg

Scrapping a "cruel and unfair" law will mean trans and intersex people in Victoria will no longer need gender reassignment surgery before they can change the sex recorded on their birth certificate.​
Gender diverse people, including children in some circumstances, will be free to self-nominate their sex as male, female or many other non-binary descriptors of their choice, under a bill the Andrews government will introduce to parliament on Tuesday.​
That's IT!!! As of tomorrow, I identify myself as a raging lesbian! At least until it no longer suits me.
 

FireKraquora

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 5, 2011
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Even as a conservative, I don't think having surgery should be the defining factor... I say this because I haven't seen evidence that surgery is beneficial to the wellbeing of transpeople, and have heard that it's not uncommon for people to regret the (irreversible) surgery after the fact.

I do think there needs to be some solid criteria in place to differentiate between genuine transpeople and those who are just going through a transient phase or are taking advantage of the system... but I have no idea what that could be. Perhaps 2 years of recorded history of identifying as the opposite sex with a health practitioner, for example?
 

Better Loosen Up

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 2, 2009
7,191
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Melbourne
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North Melbourne
Even as a conservative, I don't think having surgery should be the defining factor... I say this because I haven't seen evidence that surgery is beneficial to the wellbeing of transpeople, and have heard that it's not uncommon for people to regret the (irreversible) surgery after the fact.

I do think there needs to be some solid criteria in place to differentiate between genuine transpeople and those who are just going through a transient phase or are taking advantage of the system... but I have no idea what that could be. Perhaps 2 years of recorded history of identifying as the opposite sex with a health practitioner, for example?
The easiest answer is simple. You are what you were born so suck it up! Sorry, i've just got no time for a lot of the PC rubbish going on in our society these days
 

Fat Yak

Club Legend
Oct 4, 2017
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This guy is all the reason we need to prove why self-identification for trans is a dreadful idea. He took more than a dozen women to court for refusing to wax his balls, applied to council for a topless pool party for teens, now says he has his period.
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