Ball users vs ball winners | BigFooty

Ball users vs ball winners

Discussion in 'AFL - The Australian Football League' started by lions2002, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. lions2002

    lions2002 Rookie

    Brisbane Lions
    Joined:
    Jul 16
    Posts:
    41
    A good debate around footy clubs. Which is more damaing an effective ball winner, or an effective ball user. A good example of this, is Swan vs Pendlebury from Collingwood. Swan wins more of the ball, but Pendles uses it better.
     
    getgaff likes this.

    (Log in to remove this ad.)

  2. mike123

    mike123 Brownlow Medallist

    Collingwood
    Joined:
    Sep 13
    Posts:
    23,962
    Pendlebury is both, Swan's point of difference over him was his explosiveness around the stoppage and line breaking ability.

    I think a better example would be Fyfe v Hill.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  3. liz

    liz Norm Smith Medallist

    Sydney
    Joined:
    Nov 01
    Posts:
    5,258
    Location:
    Sydney
    Surely a good team has a balance of both.
     
  4. Thrillho_

    Thrillho_ Rookie

    Geelong
    Joined:
    Dec 17
    Posts:
    31
    Opposition coaches generally tag the users and let the winners do as they please.
     
  5. SilentHunter_

    SilentHunter_ Brownlow Medallist

    Sydney
    Joined:
    Sep 14
    Posts:
    12,472
    Location:
    Terra firma
    Exactly.
     
  6. Snake_Baker

    Snake_Baker Brownlow Medallist

    North Melbourne
    Joined:
    Apr 13
    Posts:
    28,406
    Location:
    Parochialia
    Other Teams:
    Parochial United
    You can't use it if you 'ain't got it.
     
    Acinath and Sketi like this.
  7. BJK#5

    BJK#5 Club Legend

    Hawthorn
    Joined:
    Aug 17
    Posts:
    2,159
    Because it tends to be easier to limit the impact they have
     
  8. Feerits Elf

    Feerits Elf Norm Smith Medallist

    St Kilda
    Joined:
    Mar 08
    Posts:
    7,982
    Location:
    Maribyrnong
    Did he win that much more though?

    Swan 6664 disposals over 252 games at 26.44
    Pendlebury 6926 disposals over 258 games at 26.85

    Much of a muchness really on raw disposals really. Pendlebury far better in traffic which affords him more time for better disposal efficiency. Also brings others into the play through use of handball.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  9. tigertigertiger

    tigertigertiger Club Legend

    Richmond
    Joined:
    Oct 16
    Posts:
    1,095
    both required, its a balance of sorts, equals
     
    mike123 likes this.
  10. Macpotata

    Macpotata Premiership Player

    Geelong
    Joined:
    Mar 17
    Posts:
    3,804
    Read the question. Which is more damaging, a ball winner or good ball user.


    You bloody campaigners
     
    getgaff likes this.
  11. tigertigertiger

    tigertigertiger Club Legend

    Richmond
    Joined:
    Oct 16
    Posts:
    1,095
    and my opinion is they are equal
     

    (Log in to remove this ad.)

  12. Beutbrute

    Beutbrute Working for the man

    West Coast
    Joined:
    Sep 13
    Posts:
    3,308
    Other Teams:
    East Fremantle, GSW
    A good ball winner > an average ball user
    A good ball user > an average ball winner.

    Need a combination to make a good team
     
    getgaff likes this.
  13. Schauermann

    Schauermann Premiership Player

    Fremantle
    Joined:
    Jun 11
    Posts:
    4,720
    Location:
    Hamburg
    Both working together. A good user is useless when he isn't getting the ball and getting the ball is useless when you can't use it effectivly.

    PS And obviously it is more difficult to use the ball from the inside.
     
  14. RUNVS

    RUNVS Brownlow Medallist

    Sydney
    Joined:
    Feb 07
    Posts:
    29,662
    Location:
    Sydney
    Can't really win without both. Still, it is not good if a player is exclusively one or the other.
     
    mike123 likes this.
  15. gbatman

    gbatman Brownlow Medallist

    Carlton
    Joined:
    Mar 08
    Posts:
    10,877
    Location:
    Behind You...
    Other Teams:
    Justice League
    one isn't effective without the other.
     
    getgaff, Nunez and mike123 like this.
  16. ManOfClay

    ManOfClay Brownlow Medallist

    Western Bulldogs
    Joined:
    Jan 12
    Posts:
    16,900
    Location:
    On the couch
    Other Teams:
    Memphis Grizzlies
    This is why being good inside and out is so important.


    It’s why Jack Macrae and the Bont are much more valuable to the Bulldogs than say lachie hunter and Caleb Daniel
     
    getgaff likes this.
  17. QuietB

    QuietB Brownlow Medallist

    Hawthorn
    Joined:
    May 08
    Posts:
    19,728
    Location:
    Melbourne
    The answer is Sammy Mitchell. Elite at both ;)
     
  18. master bate

    master bate Brownlow Medallist

    Melbourne
    Joined:
    Aug 06
    Posts:
    12,793
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I think you have to start from the contest out but also remember that so many of the games champions look more like one or another but in big moments do both.

    James Hird was always thinly built and could coast through games without being crash and bash but in big moments he'd win a key contest. Bont is like that.

    Then there's guys like Joel Selwood or Josh Kennedy who have awkward kicking actions and can crash and bash for most of the game but when it matters they'll often come through a pack and kick it straight to a chest.

    The footy media love to compare styles and physiques (and particularly in the case of Indigenous players even compare based on race) and they'll often miscast players.
     
    Moggy, JoshWoodenSpoon and Thrillho_ like this.
  19. Masqualero

    Masqualero Club Legend

    Carlton
    Joined:
    Jul 15
    Posts:
    1,300
    Both useless without each other.

    Both equally important, feel like this is a flawed question.
     
    getgaff, LongPause and mike123 like this.
  20. DapperJong

    DapperJong Hall of Famer

    Essendon
    Joined:
    Feb 15
    Posts:
    30,614
    Other Teams:
    Juventus
    Hey guys guess what

    [​IMG]

    tiger time!
     
  21. Furn2

    Furn2 Norm Smith Medallist

    Hawthorn
    Joined:
    Sep 12
    Posts:
    8,523
    Langford v suckling is a good
    comparison.

    As they are basically inept at the other disipline.

    I think you'd take the user in a good side
     
    donbooger, getgaff and mike123 like this.
  22. SizeMatters

    SizeMatters Brownlow Medallist

    Brisbane Lions
    Joined:
    Sep 12
    Posts:
    12,245
    Location:
    Ignore List
    Other Teams:
    GCS, GWS, Sixers, Spurs
    well obviously... daniel and hunter are both shit.
     
  23. And_ROOS

    And_ROOS Norm Smith Medallist

    Geelong
    Joined:
    Jul 05
    Posts:
    7,389
    Location:
    On the Road to A.G
    Other Teams:
    Geelong
    No point getting it if you are Shanks McKenzie though. I still have nightmares over disposals kings like Kane Tenace.
     
  24. Donakebab

    Donakebab Premium Gold

    Essendon
    Joined:
    May 09
    Posts:
    26,610
    Location:
    Tempy
    Other Teams:
    Detroit Red Wings
    Swan started slower but definitely got more of the ball and won it more himself across the bulk of his seasons. Just look at the year to year figures instead of career totals.

    https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/D/Dane_Swan.html
    https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/S/Scott_Pendlebury.html
     
  25. Feerits Elf

    Feerits Elf Norm Smith Medallist

    St Kilda
    Joined:
    Mar 08
    Posts:
    7,982
    Location:
    Maribyrnong
    Ain't nobody got time for that
     
Back To Top

Share This Page