Ball users vs ball winners

Discussion in 'AFL - The Australian Football League' started by lions2002, Feb 12, 2018.

Put it out there
  1. lions2002

    lions2002 Rookie

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    A good debate around footy clubs. Which is more damaing an effective ball winner, or an effective ball user. A good example of this, is Swan vs Pendlebury from Collingwood. Swan wins more of the ball, but Pendles uses it better.
     

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  2. mike123

    mike123 Brownlow Medallist

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    Pendlebury is both, Swan's point of difference over him was his explosiveness around the stoppage and line breaking ability.

    I think a better example would be Fyfe v Hill.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
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  3. liz

    liz Norm Smith Medallist

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    Surely a good team has a balance of both.
     
  4. Thrillho_

    Thrillho_ Draftee

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    Opposition coaches generally tag the users and let the winners do as they please.
     
  5. SilentHunter_

    SilentHunter_ Norm Smith Medallist

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    Exactly.
     
  6. Snake_Baker

    Snake_Baker Brownlow Medallist

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    You can't use it if you 'ain't got it.
     
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  7. BJK#5

    BJK#5 Team Captain

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    Because it tends to be easier to limit the impact they have
     
  8. Feerits Elf

    Feerits Elf Norm Smith Medallist

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    Did he win that much more though?

    Swan 6664 disposals over 252 games at 26.44
    Pendlebury 6926 disposals over 258 games at 26.85

    Much of a muchness really on raw disposals really. Pendlebury far better in traffic which affords him more time for better disposal efficiency. Also brings others into the play through use of handball.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  9. tigertigertiger

    tigertigertiger Team Captain

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    both required, its a balance of sorts, equals
     
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  10. Macpotata

    Macpotata Club Legend

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    Read the question. Which is more damaging, a ball winner or good ball user.


    You bloody campaigners
     
  11. tigertigertiger

    tigertigertiger Team Captain

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    and my opinion is they are equal
     

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  12. Beutbrute

    Beutbrute Club Legend

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    A good ball winner > an average ball user
    A good ball user > an average ball winner.

    Need a combination to make a good team
     
  13. Schauermann

    Schauermann Premiership Player

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    Both working together. A good user is useless when he isn't getting the ball and getting the ball is useless when you can't use it effectivly.

    PS And obviously it is more difficult to use the ball from the inside.
     
  14. RUNVS

    RUNVS Brownlow Medallist

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    Can't really win without both. Still, it is not good if a player is exclusively one or the other.
     
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  15. gbatman

    gbatman Brownlow Medallist

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    one isn't effective without the other.
     
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  16. ManOfClay

    ManOfClay Premium Platinum

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    This is why being good inside and out is so important.


    It’s why Jack Macrae and the Bont are much more valuable to the Bulldogs than say lachie hunter and Caleb Daniel
     
  17. QuietB

    QuietB Brownlow Medallist

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    The answer is Sammy Mitchell. Elite at both ;)
     
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  18. master bate

    master bate Brownlow Medallist

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    I think you have to start from the contest out but also remember that so many of the games champions look more like one or another but in big moments do both.

    James Hird was always thinly built and could coast through games without being crash and bash but in big moments he'd win a key contest. Bont is like that.

    Then there's guys like Joel Selwood or Josh Kennedy who have awkward kicking actions and can crash and bash for most of the game but when it matters they'll often come through a pack and kick it straight to a chest.

    The footy media love to compare styles and physiques (and particularly in the case of Indigenous players even compare based on race) and they'll often miscast players.
     
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  19. Masqualero

    Masqualero THE BEAST

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    Both useless without each other.

    Both equally important, feel like this is a flawed question.
     
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  20. DapperJong

    DapperJong Brownlow Medallist

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    Hey guys guess what

    [​IMG]

    tiger time!
     
  21. Furn2

    Furn2 Norm Smith Medallist

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    Langford v suckling is a good
    comparison.

    As they are basically inept at the other disipline.

    I think you'd take the user in a good side
     
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  22. SizeMatters

    SizeMatters Brownlow Medallist

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    well obviously... daniel and hunter are both shit.
     
  23. And_ROOS

    And_ROOS Norm Smith Medallist

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    No point getting it if you are Shanks McKenzie though. I still have nightmares over disposals kings like Kane Tenace.
     
  24. Donakebab

    Donakebab Premium Gold

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    Swan started slower but definitely got more of the ball and won it more himself across the bulk of his seasons. Just look at the year to year figures instead of career totals.

    https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/D/Dane_Swan.html
    https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/S/Scott_Pendlebury.html
     
  25. Feerits Elf

    Feerits Elf Norm Smith Medallist

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    Ain't nobody got time for that