Conspiracy Theory Banking and how it actually works ...

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Bunk Moreland said:
I don't know if that's necessarily the case, just their power allows them to fulfil it.

But I think all humans are basically the same. We can say "why do we allow banks to run our lives?"... and we could all swear off them... then one day, somebody would want to buy a patch of land or a business, a bank could make it happen for them, and they'd do it. Because it'll offer the individual long term security or prosperity. That's self interest.

Cooperative action will always give way to self interest eventually, not matter how wealthy or powerful (or not) the group is. We're wired for survival and there'll always be some who go beyond ensuring that at the expense of others. Anything that relies on people not to act in self interest is doomed to eventual failure.
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There is a big difference between Greed and Self interest.... I think people have lost sight that societies interests normally look after ones self interest because like you said we all want the same sercurites.... its just a shame that there are filthy greedy fiiiikers that continue to steal from below.
 
nut said:
There is a big difference between Greed and Self interest.... I think people have lost sight that societies interests normally look after ones self interest because like you said we all want the same sercurites.... its just a shame that there are filthy greedy fiiiikers that continue to steal from below.
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The worship of greed by the masses is the big issue IMO.
 

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Bunk Moreland said:
The worship of greed by the masses is the big issue IMO.
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I think most people are content to have the quarter acre block and a three bedroom house, a secure job, the ability to look after their own family and have a nice retirement to look forward to. Its the filthy greedy rich that continue to screw over the majority..... you only have to look at the distribution of wealth to see how warped society is.

I think over inflated housing prices due to the relaxation of banking regulations and allowing banks to lend more has caused an unhealthy % of a persons productivity going towards paying off debt.

So less productivity that a person produces (wages) goes towards making society better..... like education, Health etc...
 
Bunk Moreland said:
I don't know if that's necessarily the case, just their power allows them to fulfil it.

But I think all humans are basically the same. We can say "why do we allow banks to run our lives?"... and we could all swear off them... then one day, somebody would want to buy a patch of land or a business, a bank could make it happen for them, and they'd do it. Because it'll offer the individual long term security or prosperity. That's self interest.

Cooperative action will always give way to self interest eventually, not matter how wealthy or powerful (or not) the group is. We're wired for survival and there'll always be some who go beyond ensuring that at the expense of others. Anything that relies on people not to act in self interest is doomed to eventual failure.
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And that is what Capitalism is founded upon. The idea of dog eat dog and the invisible hand and all that junk.

It really is amazing that the idea of everyone looking out for themselves and only caring about their own interests somehow translates into what is best for society. That is proving not to be the case especially in this current culture of crony capitalism and monopoly market power.

I don't agree that all humans are "wired for survival". They are just a product of the society that creates the dog eat dog, scarcity survival mentality. If we did survive in a true utopia then I think you would find people were much less "survivalist" and much more community orientated.

I know Zeitgeist gets a mixed reaction from a lot of people but I do agree with a lot of its points. The survival mentality is fostered by the economic/monetary system. If we had a fair economic system that created abundance rather than scarcity people's survival mentality would recede pretty quickly.

What is everyone's thoughts on the "Community Credit" system of exchange. Would it be possible on a large scale? I know most people would say one of its problems is that it relies on trust (then again so does the monetary system). But as I said if we had a world economy that promoted fairness and abundance rather than privilege and scarcity, the trust factor would be a much smaller problem.
 
nut said:
I think most people are content to have the quarter acre block and a three bedroom house, a secure job, the ability to look after their own family and have a nice retirement to look forward to. Its the filthy greedy rich that continue to screw over the majority..... you only have to look at the distribution of wealth to see how warped society is.

I think over inflated housing prices due to the relaxation of banking regulations and allowing banks to lend more has caused an unhealthy % of a persons productivity going towards paying off debt.

So less productivity that a person produces (wages) goes towards making society better..... like education, Health etc...
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What about the massive growth of housing as investment, for example? That's not the filthy rich. That's been a lot of "normal" people becoming landlords as a way to improve their own lot. It's driven the price of housing up immeasurably, which hurts many others.
 
Showbags said:
And that is what Capitalism is founded upon. The idea of dog eat dog and the invisible hand and all that junk.

It really is amazing that the idea of everyone looking out for themselves and only caring about their own interests somehow translates into what is best for society. That is proving not to be the case especially in this current culture of crony capitalism and monopoly market power.

I don't agree that all humans are "wired for survival". They are just a product of the society that creates the dog eat dog, scarcity survival mentality. If we did survive in a true utopia then I think you would find people were much less "survivalist" and much more community orientated.

I know Zeitgeist gets a mixed reaction from a lot of people but I do agree with a lot of its points. The survival mentality is fostered by the economic/monetary system. If we had a fair economic system that created abundance rather than scarcity people's survival mentality would recede pretty quickly.

What is everyone's thoughts on the "Community Credit" system of exchange. Would it be possible on a large scale? I know most people would say one of its problems is that it relies on trust (then again so does the monetary system). But as I said if we had a world economy that promoted fairness and abundance rather than privilege and scarcity, the trust factor would be a much smaller problem.
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I believe in a free market, however like anything if unchecked it'll have undesirable outcomes.

The issues as I see them in this space are twofold:

1. Many controls have been ineffective. They may exist on paper, however our system of government means they can often be circumvented or simply changed through power and influence.

2. The blurring of the debate along "democracy" lines. Attempted economic controls are shouted down by those affected as undemocratic. "We live in a free country!"

No we don't, we live in a democracy. Which means the rules are set by the people. If the community says you can't do something, you can't.
 
Bunk Moreland said:
I believe in a free market, however like anything if unchecked it'll have undesirable outcomes.

The issues as I see them in this space are twofold:

1. Many controls have been ineffective. They may exist on paper, however our system of government means they can often be circumvented or simply changed through power and influence.

2. The blurring of the debate along "democracy" lines. Attempted economic controls are shouted down by those affected as undemocratic. "We live in a free country!"

No we don't, we live in a democracy. Which means the rules are set by the people. If the community says you can't do something, you can't.
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We live in a kleptocracy not a democracy. Completely different things.

As Peter Joseph says from Zeitgeist, its not government that is the problem. Its the survivalist/scarcity mentality that makes people want to hoard as much wealth as possible at the expense of others and circumvent/infiltrate the democratic process (Government) to help feather their own nests at the expense of others.

It is the fundamental flaw of Capitalism,the free market and the monetary system. At its core it does not value fairness, equality, abundance and environmental sustainability. It only values profit and exploitation of the world at large. The more you can exploit your workers, customers, the environment etc, the more you obtain monetary success at the expense of everybody else. Until we change this system we will never move forward as a society.
 
Bunk Moreland said:
What about the massive growth of housing as investment, for example? That's not the filthy rich. That's been a lot of "normal" people becoming landlords as a way to improve their own lot. It's driven the price of housing up immeasurably, which hurts many others.
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Follow the money.... the massive Growth in housing is what has created the massive increase in Debt.

the fact that we invest in housing to "make a profit off others" is pretty much the start of it.
 
Bunk Moreland said:
What about the massive growth of housing as investment, for example? That's not the filthy rich. That's been a lot of "normal" people becoming landlords as a way to improve their own lot. It's driven the price of housing up immeasurably, which hurts many others.
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Is there any statistics to back this up? I'd say that cashed up investors are just as culpable for the housing bubble as "normal" people. Especially here in Australia. Our housing bubble is only being propped up by wealthy Chinese investors. Once they start de-leveraging and selling up there will undoubtedly be a significant correction in our housing prices over here.
 
1) The system we have today is so far from capitalism it isn't funny.

2) The major drivers for the ridiculous house prices we see today are cheap credit (ie central bank incompetence) and government policy (specifically tax policy [i.e. Howard's changes to CGT], foreign investment policy [i.e. Rudd's changes to foreign investment], and most of all MASS IMMIGRATION).

This is all covered in my threads on SRP (see sig) and AusPol, both with many links to reputable sources.

EDIT: Somehow forget the elephant in the room.
 
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Smiling Buddha said:
1) The system we have today is so far from capitalism it isn't funny.

2) The major drivers for the ridiculous house prices we see today are cheap credit (ie central bank incompetence) and government policy (specifically tax policy [i.e. Howard's changes to CGT] and foreign investment policy [i.e. Rudd's changes to foreign investment]).

This is all covered in my threads on SRP (see sig) and AusPol, both with many links to reputable sources.
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I don't totally agree. This is capitalism, or at least the system that capitalism will always fall back to. Capitalism at its root will always have the propensity to move towards crony capitalism and the promotion of capital accumulation into the hands of a private few, and with that governments will always be turned into puppets of the wealthy at the expense of the proletariat.

Obviously this isn't the dreamy version of free market capitalism that the likes of Adam Smith envisaged. If we did have a pure free market with big companies not having the market power they currently enjoy and people being able to exchange goods and services freely then we would be better off than we are currently.

But this will never happen as Capitalist ideology will never allow us to work together cooperatively. At its core it promotes a mentality of scarcity and competition which will always lead to people wanting to gain a differential advantage over their rival, which is what has led us to the current system of the top 0.001% of the population owning nearly 50% of the world's wealth. And governments being basically just an extension of corporate power and a tool for them to protect their market position.
 
Bunk Moreland said:
What about...
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... lol What about your nickname "Bunk" ahahahahaha perfect name for a conspiracy board lol! coincidence? or something deeper at play?

hey anyway hows this for a conspiracy theory (a little off topic i know), that guy in the wire, Preston Broadus, aka BOADY? you never see how his nickname is spelt, right? but then like you think BOADIE/BOADY then think maybe it's "BODHI", which is a buddhist thing, it's like, traditionally this is translated as "to become awakened and enlightened through suffering" AND THATS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS IN HIS CHARACTER ARC! Is this a coincidence? Or are the writers alluding way way back in season one what's going to happen to him? I mean those dudes that wrote that TV show The Wire are pretty smart but were they just playing with our heads with this one or what?

Just thought I'd share that one.

Hey regarding the actual topic: Money is s**t, but i'd rather have it than some other prat because i like to buy really nice clothes.

peace y'all.
 
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Smiling Buddha said:
2) The major drivers for the ridiculous house prices we see today are cheap credit (ie central bank incompetence) and government policy (specifically tax policy [i.e. Howard's changes to CGT] and foreign investment policy [i.e. Rudd's changes to foreign investment]).

This is all covered in my threads on SRP (see sig) and AusPol, both with many links to reputable sources.
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The major fundamental driver is land use restrictions. Cheap credit doesn't help, but the fact that people can't create new housing without greasing the wheels of councils and state governments means you've got a lot of money chasing very little supply.

That's basically what the NSW corruption problem is. Property developers greasing the wheels of politicians to permit hundred million and billion dollar projects.
 
Yep, extra people coming in vs restrictions on supply.

I don't mind mass immigration, but it shits me how greenies who favour it abhor urban sprawl and inner city redevelopment / gentrification.
 
so now to continue the ponzi scheme we will have to work to we are 70 and then get a reverse mortgage on the house.... a slave to the banks to the day we die.
 
Smiling Buddha said:
And why does our 'education system' not spend one day of the thirteen years it customarily takes from a person's life informing them of these basic facts?

I used to put it down to well-meaning incompetence.

Until I wisened up.
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Erm... I did high school economics and this was covered. I don't think the bank lends money, money is created system idea was ever hidden.
 
Showbags said:
I don't totally agree. This is capitalism, or at least the system that capitalism will always fall back to. Capitalism at its root will always have the propensity to move towards crony capitalism and the promotion of capital accumulation into the hands of a private few, and with that governments will always be turned into puppets of the wealthy at the expense of the proletariat.

Obviously this isn't the dreamy version of free market capitalism that the likes of Adam Smith envisaged. If we did have a pure free market with big companies not having the market power they currently enjoy and people being able to exchange goods and services freely then we would be better off than we are currently.

But this will never happen as Capitalist ideology will never allow us to work together cooperatively. At its core it promotes a mentality of scarcity and competition which will always lead to people wanting to gain a differential advantage over their rival, which is what has led us to the current system of the top 0.001% of the population owning nearly 50% of the world's wealth. And governments being basically just an extension of corporate power and a tool for them to protect their market position.
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What system do you propose other than capitalism? Communism/ Marxism?

So govt is too corrupt to withstand the dollars thrown around by private industry but its not corrupt enough to control all your property and rights? Im sorry i dont need someone telling me what job ill do, when ill do it and how much i can have.

I wont deny theres inequity problems, but we should never give up the right to freely trade our time and labor voluntarily as we see fit. Anything else is serfdom or slavery. This is why communism always leads to strong man dictators, you cant give all that power to people and then act surprised.

Imo much of this could be sorted out using the * positive money system and govts providing fairer market places for businesses to compete in.
 
Great thread, we spend so much time trying tax people of their wages to force some sort of equality we miss the game behind the curtain. Although im not sure why the thread is in the conspiracy sections?

A group ive been subscribed to for some time now called Positive Money has plenty of videos, info and lectures on the problems of debt based money and the benefits debt free money brings.

However wars tend to follow those not towing the elites debt money system. Just check out Libya for example, a bunch of lowly revolutionaries in an Arab Spring create a central bank asap? I highly doubt the slave masters will allow the unshackling of their free range slaves anytime soon.

But anyway enough of that....... a few vids from Positive money

Inequality: Why are the rich getting richer?


Could These 3 Simple Changes to Banking Fix the Economy?
 
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